Stupid, Stupid Move by Mattingly

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by El Nino

But the desperation shows your lack of confidence in Nolasco or anybody else in your starting rotation. Now you potentially hand Nolasco the ball in St. Louis and he isn't supposed to feel shitty? You don't think Nolasco wants a shot to show he's not as bad as he closed out the season? He's a professional, but it's the absolute wrong message to send him.

This isn't Game 7 (or Game 5). The Dodgers aren't down 2-1 (or 3-2). Nothing about this decision makes sense. Again, it's Freddy Garcia at home and they're up 2-1.

Unreal Mattingly.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:29 PM

I am not a fan of Mattingly as a manager but this is the best move I have ever seen him make.

You can't manage scared. He's going for it right now. You seize this opportunity and end the series with the best pitcher in all of baseball. Open your minds a little bit.

Darkside Magick · 10-07-13, 06:31 PM

Absolutely No way Atlanta win.......Dodgers RL all day!

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by t-wizzle

I am not a fan of Mattingly as a manager but this is the best move I have ever seen him make.

You can't manage scared. He's going for it right now. You seize this opportunity and end the series with the best pitcher in all of baseball. Open your minds a little bit.

I would hope the Dodgers have bigger plans in mind than overthinking a Game 4 up 2-1 at home against Freddy Garcia.

Using your ace on three days rest for the first time ever coming off a 123-pitch performance when you're in control of the series reeks of both desperation and incompetence, which doesn't surprise me given Mattingly's in over his head trying to manage what is supposed to be a World Series contender.

tatddy · 10-07-13, 06:34 PM

Originally posted by El Nino

But the desperation shows your lack of confidence in Nolasco or anybody else in your starting rotation. Now you potentially hand Nolasco the ball in St. Louis and he isn't supposed to feel shitty? You don't think Nolasco wants a shot to show he's not as bad as he closed out the season? He's a professional, but it's the absolute wrong message to send him.

Nobody is arguing that Mattingly isn't an idiot. My contention was that it shouldn't affect a grown man professional.

"This ain't inter murals"

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:36 PM

Originally posted by tatddy

Nobody is arguing that Mattingly isn't an idiot. My contention was that it shouldn't affect a grown man professional.

"This ain't inter murals"

It shouldn't, but I don't see how it wouldn't -- at least privately.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:37 PM

Originally posted by No coincidences

I would hope the Dodgers have bigger plans in mind than overthinking a Game 4 up 2-1 at home against Freddy Garcia.

Pitching your ace on three days rest for the first time ever coming off a 123-pitch performance when you're in control of the series reeks of both desperation and incompetence, which doesn't surprise me given Mattingly's in over his head trying to manage what is supposed to be a World Series contender.

I don't see it as desperation. Desperation would be saving him for a Game 5 in case you lose tonight. It's an aggressive move to win this series now. You want to end this thing in LA and this gives them the best chance to do it. Suppose Garcia gives up a bunch of runs and then Nolasco turns around and does the same - then you've completely squandered an opportunity and you head back to Atlanta.

I can't emphasize enough how much I agree with this move. You view it as him managing scared, I view it the opposite. Different perspectives on a big decision.

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:38 PM

Originally posted by t-wizzle

I can't emphasize enough how much I agree with this move. You view it as him managing scared, I view it the opposite. Different perspectives on a big decision.

We'll see what happens. Like I said, they better close it out tonight now. Going back to ATL in a 2-2 tie without Kershaw would be interesting to say the least.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:39 PM

I don't see it as desperation.

they are stepping on their throats and going for the kill.

not fking around.

by going with Kershaw up 2-1 they are already in Atlantas head going before the game starts, advantage Doyers.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:39 PM

Originally posted by wagerjunkie

I don't see it as desperation it.

they are stepping on their throats and going for the kill.

not fking around.

Smoke · 10-07-13, 06:40 PM

Originally posted by wagerjunkie

I don't see it as desperation it.

they are stepping on their throats and going for the kill.

not fking around.

Mich St. lost to Notre Dame on the road, I see no reason why Iowa shouldn't be giving a fg or more in this matchup.*Iowa has been pretty tough at home over the years.*I think they are pretty good value at a pick at home against anyone, let alone a slightly above average Mich St. team

LT Profits · 10-07-13, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by t-wizzle

I am not a fan of Mattingly as a manager but this is the best move I have ever seen him make.

You can't manage scared. He's going for it right now. You seize this opportunity and end the series with the best pitcher in all of baseball. Open your minds a little bit.

Like I said, it is a stupid move even if Dodgers win tonight because Mattingly would be wasting Kershaw for no reason and won't be available for Game 1. Better to try and close out tonight with Nolasco or anybody else other than Kershaw. That way, if Dodgers win, Mattingly can set rotation anyway he wants for NLCS. If Dodgers lose, he'll have Kershaw for Game 5 and still be favored in Atlanta. He is not thinking ahead.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by Smoke

Mich St. lost to Notre Dame on the road, I see no reason why Iowa shouldn't be giving a fg or more in this matchup.*Iowa has been pretty tough at home over the years.*I think they are pretty good value at a pick at home against anyone, let alone a slightly above average Mich St. team

smoker u aight pal?

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:43 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Like I said, it is a stupid move even if Dodgers win tonight because Mattingly would be wasting Kershaw for no reason and won't be available for Game 1. Better to try and close out tonight with Nolasco or anybody else other than Kershaw. That way, if Dodgers win, Mattingly can set rotation anyway he wants for NLCS. If Dodgers lose, he'll have Kershaw for Game 5 and still be favored in Atlanta. He is not thinking ahead.

Agree. Like I said, there's a bigger picture here. The Dodgers are supposed to be World Series contenders -- not NLDS contenders. Act like it.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:44 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Like I said, it is a stupid move even if Dodgers win tonight because Mattingly would be wasting Kershaw for no reason and won't be available for Game 1. Better to try and close out tonight with Nolasco or anybody else other than Kershaw. That way, if Dodgers win, Mattingly can set rotation anyway he wants for NLCS. If Dodgers lose, he'll have Kershaw for Game 5 and still be favored in Atlanta. He is not thinking ahead.

Wasting him? He'd start Game 2.

LT you are way overthinking this. Anyways you don't worry about the next series, you worry about the series at hand.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:45 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Like I said, it is a stupid move even if Dodgers win tonight because Mattingly would be wasting Kershaw for no reason and won't be available for Game 1. Better to try and close out tonight with Nolasco or anybody else other than Kershaw. That way, if Dodgers win, Mattingly can set rotation anyway he wants for NLCS. If Dodgers lose, he'll have Kershaw for Game 5 and still be favored in Atlanta. He is not thinking ahead.

dude.

they have to WIN THIS SERIES TO GET TO GAME 1 of the next series, you are acting like its a given right now that they are are advancing.. this gives them the best chance to do so.

why risk going to back to Atlanta 2-2 when you have this opportunity?

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:46 PM

you are forgetting he still has another Cy Young award winnner ace in his pocket, in Grienke to start Game 1 of the next series. if they make it.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:46 PM

Originally posted by wagerjunkie

dude.

they have to WIN THIS SERIES TO GET TO GAME 1 of the next series, you are acting like its a given right now that they are are advancing.. this gives them the best chance to do so.

why risk going to back to Atlanta 2-2 when you have this opportunity?

Wagerjunkie they don't get it. We aren't going to convince them and they aren't going to convince us. I like our logic here though so I'm ok with that.

BigDofBA · 10-07-13, 06:46 PM

You're the better team, up 2-1 in the series, and at home as a considerable favorite against Freddy Garcia. Pitching Kershaw on three days rest after 123 pitches doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm stupid...

LA likely wins this game without Kershaw; however, if they somehow lose tonight with Kershaw, then they have put themselves in a horrible spot.

Hell, even if they win tonight, they can't pitch Kershaw in game 1 of the NLCS.

By pitching Kershaw tonight, Mattingly is sending the message that the Dodgers are doing everything they can to end it. If somehow Kershaw is off and Atlanta wins, Atlanta will have all of the momentum and confidence heading into game 5.

I feel like the Dodgers are putting all of their eggs in the basket when they don't need to. You guys are acting like Kershaw is going to be fine but three days rest on 123 pitches????

Have any of you guys played baseball? That isn't easy.

El Nino · 10-07-13, 06:47 PM

Originally posted by tatddy

Nobody is arguing that Mattingly isn't an idiot. My contention was that it shouldn't affect a grown man professional.

"This ain't inter murals"

Haha. I hear ya, it shouldn't. But for every pro with ice water running through their veins, there are mental midgets. Teams don't have sports psychologists on the payroll for nothing. This decision doesn't positively affect Nolasco in any way. Guy preps for a start, a potential series close out at home, and gets yanked. Now he doesn't get a start in this series. Look at Ryu last night, got his feet wet and shat the bed, was lucky to get the run support he got. You let Nolasco start, if he pitches a gem, now he has confidence. Mattingly setting himself up for disaster in the next series.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:48 PM

it actually hows how much confidence he has in his over all staff as whole to be honest...you can look at it that way..and that is probably how he is selling it to his guys.

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:48 PM

Originally posted by BigDofBA

You're the better team, up 2-1 in the series, and at home as a considerable favorite against Freddy Garcia. Pitching Kershaw on three days rest after 123 pitches doesn't make sense to me. Maybe I'm stupid...

LA likely wins this game without Kershaw; however, if they somehow lose tonight with Kershaw, then they have put themselves in a horrible spot.

Hell, even if they win tonight, they can't pitch Kershaw in game 1 of the NLCS.

By pitching Kershaw tonight, Mattingly is sending the message that the Dodgers are doing everything they can to end it. If somehow Kershaw is off and Atlanta wins, Atlanta will have all of the momentum and confidence heading into game 5.

I feel like the Dodgers are putting all of their eggs in the basket when they don't need to.

Exactly my thoughts, but to each his own.

The only thing I know for sure is I hope it backfires gloriously.

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by No coincidences

Exactly my thoughts, but to each his own.

The only thing I know for sure is I hope it backfires gloriously.

Why do you hope it backfires? Bet on Atlanta or just hate the Dodgers?

konck · 10-07-13, 06:49 PM

The guy is 100% lump as a manager his team won in spite of him. Hard to lose when you find the cuban Ted Williams and 2 cy youngs

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:50 PM

Originally posted by t-wizzle

Why do you hope it backfires? Bet on Atlanta or just hate the Dodgers?

I hate Mattingly. Always have.

LT Profits · 10-07-13, 06:50 PM

Because you are asking Kershaw to do something he has never done before so he may not be his usual self. Whereas if Mattingly saves him for Game 5 (as he SHOULD), you basically know what to expect of him and the game being in Atlanta doesn't matter. This move makes ZERO sense for a team that is leading the series and nobody can convince me otherwise.

El Sol · 10-07-13, 06:50 PM

Kershaw doesn't need to go the distance, nor throw a lot of pitches. Just needs to get a few good innings in to keep the Braves from jumping out to a big lead giving the Dodgers a chance to build a cushion. If Dodgers come out a get a nice lead. They can pull him early. If he gets bombed,They can pull him. If its a tight game, then it would probably be best to have your best pitching anyway in a short series. They have plenty of weapons in the wing to patch together a pitching performance either way.

If they win. There will be enough time for him to rest for next series. Plus, Kershaw is young. Kids rebound quicker than the 30 - 40 year olds. I see nothing wrong with this.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:51 PM

they have a Cy Young award winnner, Greinke to start Game 1 of the next series if they close out tonight!

this is the perfect move.

you step on the oppositions throat in the post season when u have the chance, not give them a chance to level the playing field. throwing Kershaw tonight is stepping on their throats. he fkn struck out 12 batters in Game 1 and didn't have anywhere near his best stuff.

BigDofBA · 10-07-13, 06:52 PM

Originally posted by No coincidences

Exactly my thoughts, but to each his own.

The only thing I know for sure is I hope it backfires gloriously.

Mattingly isn't a good manager, he just has a lot of talent.

As a Cardinals fan, I love it that they're pitching Kershaw again because if the Cards get by Pitt, they won't see Kershaw in game 1.

LA probably wins regardless of who pitches but if somehow Kershaw doesn't have it (BECAUSE HE IS ON 3 DAYS REST AFTER THROWING 123 PITCHES) and Atlanta wins, the Dodgers are going back to Atlanta for a deciding game after just getting beat at home with their ace.

It's just not something you do when you are the better team, already a heavy favorite, at home, and leading the series for god's sake.

I'll put it this way, for Atlanta to win this series they're going to have to beat Kershaw at least once. Agree?

Don't you think you're giving them a better chance by pitching him on three days rest as opposed to normal rest?

No coincidences · 10-07-13, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by BigDofBA

It's just not something you do when you are the better team, already a heavy favorite, at home, and leading the series for god's sake.

FTR, I could totally see it if they were down 2-1 -- regardless of who was pitching for ATL.

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:54 PM

Originally posted by LT Profits

Because you are asking Kershaw to do something he has never done before so he may not be his usual self. Whereas if Mattingly saves him for Game 5 (as he SHOULD), you basically know what to expect of him and the game being in Atlanta doesn't matter. This move makes ZERO sense for a team that is leading the series and nobody can convince me otherwise.

why risk even facing elimination when you can have the odds considerable in your favor of closing a series out tonight? isn't that the point of this all?

to advance? yes.

not worry about 2 steps ahead. you gotta worry about one game at a time on post season. this gives them best opporutinity to advance.

not buying the "he wont be comfortable on three days rest" the kid is a young stud who is a fkn horse. not like he has 4390534095 innings already on his arm

wagerjunkie · 10-07-13, 06:55 PM

Originally posted by BigDofBA

Mattingly isn't a good manager, he just has a lot of talent.

As a Cardinals fan, I love it that they're pitching Kershaw again because if the Cards get by Pitt, they won't see Kershaw in game 1.

LA probably wins regardless of who pitches but if somehow Kershaw doesn't have it (BECAUSE HE IS ON 3 DAYS REST AFTER THROWING 123 PITCHES) and Atlanta wins, the Dodgers are going back to Atlanta for a deciding game after just getting beat at home with their ace.

It's just not something you do when you are the better team, already a heavy favorite, at home, and leading the series for god's sake.

I'll put it this way, for Atlanta to win this series they're going to have to beat Kershaw at least once. Agree?

Don't you think you're giving them a better chance by pitching him on three days rest as opposed to normal rest?

lol no,

you'll just see Grienke. (referring to your game 1 comment)

yisman · 10-07-13, 06:55 PM

124 pitches, guys

t-wizzle · 10-07-13, 06:56 PM

LT, No coin, and BigD view using Kershaw as a safety valve.

Hey btw guys can you tell me what the Dodgers record was this year in Kershaw's starts?

Down_Goes Bookie · 10-07-13, 06:58 PM

Look at the obvious, like Mattingly did. Nolasco was shelled in September to the tune of 6.66 1.52 .300.

Garcia, meanwhile, posted 1.65 1.02 2.35 in September-- against all reason. I faded him once and paid for it. Garcia shouldn't have those numbers... his FIP and BABIP are scream correction any pitch now... and he wasn't facing All-Star lineups ...

But the wily old vet Freddy has got his mojo working, wherever it comes from.

Whereas Nolasco has been getting hit like a red-headed stepchild. Do the Dodgers want to be down 8 to 2 in the 7th inning and then pack up for a flight to Atlanta and hear that godawful tomahawk chop chant again with head case Greinke on the mound?

Hell no! Good move Mattingly. Seize the day.