Phil Steete "How Often Do Underdogs Win Outright?"

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  • harlee71
    SBR Hall of Famer
    • 12-02-09
    • 7202

    #1
    Phil Steete "How Often Do Underdogs Win Outright?"
    Naturally there are different levels of underdogs and if you know me by now, you know that I will head to my computer and get all the details. There has been a lot of college football played since 1997, 16 years worth of it. If you count each FBS team playing a game (so 2 teams each game) in that span there were 22,550 different games of data for me to analyze.

    Let’s look at the biggest favorites and you will see that Las Vegas does its job well picking out big favorites. Since 1997 there have been 673 teams that have been favored by OVER 31.5 points in a game. Of those 673 only SEVEN have lost the game straight up. The biggest upset ever was when Stanford (+41) upset USC in 2007 and showing what a weird year that was, the 2nd biggest upset ever was also in 2007 when Syracuse (+37) beat Louisville. The other 4 huge upsets since 1997 were: Texas St (+36.5) over Houston last year, Temple (+35.5) over Virginia Tech in 1998, Central Michigan (+35.5) over Western Michigan in 2000, James Madison (+35) over Virginia Tech in 2010 and North Texas (+32) over Texas Tech in 1997. Basically if your team is installed as an underdog of 31.5 points or more in a game, they have a 1% chance of winning.

    Now let’s look at the chances of your favorite team winning if they are installed as an underdog of 24.5 to 31 points. Since 1997 there have been 818 teams that have been favored by 24.5 to 31 points in a game. You would expect the underdogs would have a better chance of winning outright than the above teams and naturally they do. In that span 32 teams that have been favored by that margin have lost straight up in a game with two such upsets last year. ULM was +30.5 when they upset Arkansas and Middle Tennessee was +26.5 when they upset Georgia Tech. The amount of upset did not go up as much as I thought they would as upsets occurred only 3.9% of the time or 1 out of every 25 games.

    You would figure that the percentage of upsets in the 17.5 to 24 point favorites level would go up drastically from that 3.9% in the previous category. Since 1997 there have been 1,421 teams that have been favored by 17.5 to 24 points. I am still a little surprised that there were only 93 upsets in this level of favorites over the 16-year span. That is just 6.5% upsets, which comes out to 1 upset loss for every 15.3 teams that are favored by 17.5 to 24 points. Last year there were five such upsets which included Sacramento St over Colorado, Stanford over Oregon, Colorado over Washington St, Tulane over SMU and Youngstown St over Pittsburgh.

    I will start breaking it down into smaller categories as we continue to go down in level of favoritism. The next category to look at are teams that are favored by 14.5 (more than 2 TD’s) to 17 points. Since 1997 there have been 905 teams that have been favored by 14.5 to 17 points in a game. Of the 905 teams favored by this amount 117 have lost the game outright. That is close to double the odds as the category above as 12.9% of the teams favored by 14.5 to 17 points lose outright and an upset occurs 1 time for every 7.7 games played in that level. There were only 7 such upsets last year including NC State over Florida St.

    The next level down that I will look at is the 10.5 to 14 point category. From 1997 – 2012 there were 1,551 teams that were favored by this level. Of those 1,551 games there were 327 upsets, which was 21.1% of the time. That still means that roughly 4 out of every 5 teams favored by 10.5-14 points wins the game with an upset occurring once every 4.7 times.

    From 1997-2012 there were 1,454 teams that were favored by 7.5 to 10 points and of those 1,454 teams there were 377 upsets, which was almost the same results as the favorites from 10.5 to 14. That means that 25.9% of the time a team was favored by 7.5 to 10 points they lost outright and that translates into 1 upset every 3.9 games.

    Since 1997 there have been 2,666 teams that have been favored from 3.5 to 7 points. These are teams that are expected to win the game but the game should be close. The last time we tightened up the category the upsets went from every 4.7 games to every 3.9 games. Should we expect 1 in every 3 games here? Since 1997, 934 of the 2,666 teams that were underdogs of 3.5 to 7 points have pulled outright upsets and that translates into 1 every 2.8 games or 35.0% of the time.

    Now we get to the category that will tell us if Las Vegas knows what they are doing. Games where a team is favored by 3 points or less. These games are basically toss-ups but Vegas favors one team and makes them the favorite. What percentage of teams pull minor upsets as underdogs of 3 points or less? As I type this I do not know the answer but I will guess 45% of them. Now let’s go to the computer. Since 1997 there have been 1,787 favorites of 3 points or less. My 45% guess would have 804 minor “upsets”. The actual answer is 848 “upsets” by teams that are underdogs of 3 points or less which comes out to be 47.5% and that shows these games are definitely toss-ups!

    Here is a quick chart showing the chances of a team winning outright depending on where Las Vegas sets the line.

    Favorite of # of Games Lost Outright %
    31.5 or more pts 673 7 1.04%
    24.5-31 818 32 3.91%
    17.5-24 1421 93 6.54%
    14.5-17 905 117 12.93%
    10.5-14 1551 327 21.08%
    7.5-10 1454 377 25.93%
    3.5-7 2666 934 35.03%
    3 or less 1787 848 47.45%
  • unluckysob
    SBR MVP
    • 05-21-08
    • 1527

    #2
    like to see NFL #s on this-----certainly no 21-35 point favorites.
    Comment
    • harlee71
      SBR Hall of Famer
      • 12-02-09
      • 7202

      #3
      I dont bet NFL unless it's a dog.
      Comment
      • seaborneq
        SBR Posting Legend
        • 09-08-06
        • 22556

        #4
        Good information. Probably won't help me much this fall, but still good information.
        Comment
        • Big Bear
          SBR Aristocracy
          • 11-01-11
          • 43253

          #5
          Originally posted by harlee71
          I dont bet NFL unless it's a dog.
          I like a home dog on national tv with the public on the road favorite.
          Comment
          • d2bets
            BARRELED IN @ SBR!
            • 08-10-05
            • 39995

            #6
            Interesting, if accurate. The 10.5 to 14 is interesting. 1 our of 4.7 means over +360 is profitable. Aren't pretty much all 10.5 to 14 point dogs over +370? Been a while since CFB, but isn't a 10 point dog usually something like +350. I would think 10.5 to 14 would be something like +380 to +550, or thereabouts. 21.08% dog win is a bit higher than I would have guessed.
            Comment
            • jjgold
              SBR Aristocracy
              • 07-20-05
              • 388179

              #7
              Steele a lifetime loser
              Lets not forget that


              Stats really do not mean much
              I can find winning trends on both sides of a matchup all the time
              Comment
              • Huckleberry Pig
                SBR MVP
                • 02-07-13
                • 2564

                #8
                great write up, very interesting to read.
                Comment
                • pavyracer
                  SBR Aristocracy
                  • 04-12-07
                  • 82840

                  #9
                  What we need is the % where the line closed. Where the line is set by Vegas does not take into account line movement and late money.
                  Comment
                  • Louisvillekid1
                    SBR Aristocracy
                    • 10-17-07
                    • 52143

                    #10
                    Is the mag out yet?

                    I just went to 2 stores and they didn't have it...
                    Comment
                    • chunk
                      SBR Wise Guy
                      • 02-08-11
                      • 808

                      #11
                      Mag has been out for a couple of weeks now.
                      Comment
                      • Louisvillekid1
                        SBR Aristocracy
                        • 10-17-07
                        • 52143

                        #12
                        Thanks Chunker,

                        I just went back out and hit target, no go...

                        Target, CVS, & local News/smoke shop (0-3)

                        Comment
                        • edawg
                          SBR MVP
                          • 07-09-11
                          • 2820

                          #13
                          Steele is a good guy with an excellent preview magazine. But JJ is right he is a pure number cruncher who lacks feel for capping.
                          Comment
                          • ChalkyDog
                            SBR Hall of Famer
                            • 10-02-11
                            • 9598

                            #14
                            Every Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday and Friday when they're the only game on that night, and they're at home.
                            Comment
                            • Louisvillekid1
                              SBR Aristocracy
                              • 10-17-07
                              • 52143

                              #15
                              ^ lol
                              Comment
                              • jjgold
                                SBR Aristocracy
                                • 07-20-05
                                • 388179

                                #16
                                Kid order on his website or maybe gamblers book club website


                                I would never go into a store and buy and get tagged as a sports bettor
                                Comment
                                • iifold
                                  SBR Posting Legend
                                  • 04-25-10
                                  • 11111

                                  #17


                                  You guys understand that books adapt and make adjustments... Right?

                                  You need to look forward to find value, not backwards...
                                  Comment
                                  • ChalkyDog
                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                    • 10-02-11
                                    • 9598

                                    #18
                                    Originally posted by iifold


                                    You guys understand that books adapt and make adjustments... Right?

                                    You need to look forward to find value, not backwards...
                                    I'm still waiting for the adjustment. This line of thought cost me money early last season, because I swore there is no way it would keep happening.

                                    What are they going to do, make an obviously outmatched on paper team a favorite? Besides, most recreational gamblers lay the points. They're choice is to go against the trend as to not get hammered by people following the trend, or keep collecting the people that are backing favorites regardless.

                                    I doubt it will stay such a positive trend in the NFL going forward, as NFL teams are much more evenly matched. In college, not so much.
                                    Comment
                                    • jjgold
                                      SBR Aristocracy
                                      • 07-20-05
                                      • 388179

                                      #19
                                      Good points IIFOLD

                                      So many theories..bet openers if you think you have an edge

                                      I think Sunday Nights if a book posts lines is a good time to bet
                                      Comment
                                      • bb_skoots
                                        SBR MVP
                                        • 05-04-11
                                        • 1088

                                        #20
                                        fade Akron zips @ CFU week one.
                                        Comment
                                        • Reload
                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                          • 03-23-08
                                          • 12250

                                          #21
                                          I haven't bought Phil Steele's preview magazines in a few years. Went with Mark Lawrence's Playbook last year and bought it again last week for this year - have liked that one better.
                                          Comment
                                          • gojetsgomoxies
                                            SBR MVP
                                            • 09-04-12
                                            • 4222

                                            #22
                                            i've always thought that moneyline underdogs were good value in college football............ a 13 point underdog winning in college is pretty common, whereas in the nfl it's an amazing story. granted more games and the moneyline of 13 point UD is different for NCAAF and NFL but i don't think the market adjusts enough.

                                            i would add that moneyline underdogs being good value might correspond with the internet making the world alot smaller. i don't think there's any doubt that lesser teams in big football states have shrunk the gap vs. the powerhouse teams alot. sunbelt for instance has been absolute gold against bigger conferences.

                                            haven't seen phil steele in canada yet.... i do like mark lawrence, might go with him this year.
                                            Comment
                                            • suicidekings
                                              SBR Hall of Famer
                                              • 03-23-09
                                              • 9962

                                              #23
                                              I don't understand how this is useful information. The data generally just backs up the fact that overall, Vegas has a fairly good handle on the sport, which we all know already. The outliers that smart people make money from get lost in the big picture.
                                              Comment
                                              • BigdaddyQH
                                                SBR Posting Legend
                                                • 07-13-09
                                                • 19530

                                                #24
                                                If the number of upset winners in the 31.5+ range is 7 out of 673, you are looking at a 1% win ratio for the dogs. Obviously the play here is the favorites and the ML. If you win 99% of the wagers, I do not care how much you have to give in the one game you lose. If you also stick to non-com games involving teams like Ohio State and Florida, you probably will not lose at all.
                                                Comment
                                                • harlee71
                                                  SBR Hall of Famer
                                                  • 12-02-09
                                                  • 7202

                                                  #25
                                                  Originally posted by BigdaddyQH
                                                  If the number of upset winners in the 31.5+ range is 7 out of 673, you are looking at a 1% win ratio for the dogs. Obviously the play here is the favorites and the ML. If you win 99% of the wagers, I do not care how much you have to give in the one game you lose. If you also stick to non-com games involving teams like Ohio State and Florida, you probably will not lose at all.

                                                  So each week do a 5k 7teamer and hope you don't hit that 1%.
                                                  Comment
                                                  • JR007
                                                    SBR Hall of Famer
                                                    • 02-21-10
                                                    • 5279

                                                    #26
                                                    I have read this before, but does not give ats info, thanks for posting though
                                                    Comment
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