Lebron James is officially better than Kobe Bryant now

[Ratzz]

2000 NBA Finals

Shaq 38.0 ppg
Kobe 13.3 ppg

LOL.. nothing can hide this.. 13 pts a game, and he holds up 5 fingers like he was the man that Shaq was.
that guy has a more nerve than talent.. and he has PLENTY of talent

Zero respect for Kobe simply because you hate him.. its apparent. Taking away his rings due to this and that, you are a complete biased dipshit. Battier saved brons ass just like ray allen did. These arguments could go in circles forever to be honest

#heatnation are blind idiots that just started watching basketball 3 years ago

EVERY great player neds a key bucket/shot/play from someone else:

• Jordan needed Steve Kerr's shot, Pippen's play, Rodman's rebounds..*
• Kobe was rescued by Horry, Fisher, Artest... list goes on..
• Bird by McHale, Parrish, Johnson, key 3's by Ainge..

[ROYAJA8]

Wow ratz either lost alot of money betting versus Kobe, got his skull cracked in by some laker fans, or Kobe slept with his girl. Kobe and Jordan are the 2 best players EVER Lebron still has many years to change that though but at this moment he is not even close. Also whats up with your sorry ass math skills you can't average a game he didnt play in, so it's more like 16 p.p.g. dumbass

[Ratzz]

Wow ratz either lost alot of money betting versus Kobe, got his skull cracked in by some laker fans, or Kobe slept with his girl. Kobe and Jordan are the 2 best players EVER Lebron still has many years to change that though but at this moment he is not even close. Also whats up with your sorry ass math skills you can't average a game he didnt play in, so it's more like 16 p.p.g. dumbass

i did it correctly.. over 5 games.. game 3 DNP (in orig post)

he totaled a VERY modest and minuscule 13.3 ppg *(cough)

[Ratzz]

i did it correctly.. over 5 games.. game 3 DNP (in orig post)

he totaled a VERY modest and minuscule 13.3 ppg *(cough)

averaged SHAQ's scoring over 6 games... and Kobe's over 5 games..*

it's not hard to do... i would not make a point to be so specific about numbers and overlook a DNP


it may have been smart of you to double-check the figures before posting this––

OH..wait..!

you're a dumbass Laker fan.. i forgot what you guys are like.

the RIOT is that you Kobe-people actually think that Howard WANTS to return to the Lakers
to be spoken down to and ignored (in-game) by Kobe for another year!

Howard is leaving, and Lakers get nothing.

[crustyme]

i did it correctly.. over 5 games.. game 3 DNP (in orig post)

he totaled a VERY modest and minuscule 13.3 ppg *(cough)

but you included game 2 where he got hurt and played just 9 mins (1-3 fg).

any unbiased observer would exclude such an anomaly and see that he scored 19ppg in 4 full games.

[Seto]

but you included game 2 where he got hurt and played just 9 mins (1-3 fg).

any unbiased observer would exclude such an anomaly and see that he scored 19ppg in 4 full games.

I'm afraid that word and Ratzz when he speaks about Kobe/the Lakers are incompatible.

Notice how he says he "could've" done 2001 and 2002 as well but conveniently chose not to.

I don't mind the guy otherwise but he's fukking annoying when he talks about his friends in purple and gold.

[ROYAJA8]

i did it correctly.. over 5 games.. game 3 DNP (in orig post)

he totaled a VERY modest and minuscule 13.3 ppg *(cough)

You are a dumbfuk!! 78 divided by 5 is 15.6 ppg. Go back to elementary school and touch up on your math skills. Also like crusty said only played 9 minutes that game2 so most likely he woulda had at least 10 more points that game.

[una13ombr]

averaged SHAQ's scoring over 6 games... and Kobe's over 5 games..*

it's not hard to do... i would not make a point to be so specific about numbers and overlook a DNP


it may have been smart of you to double-check the figures before posting this––

OH..wait..!

you're a dumbass Laker fan.. i forgot what you guys are like.

the RIOT is that you Kobe-people actually think that Howard WANTS to return to the Lakers
to be spoken down to and ignored (in-game) by Kobe for another year!

Howard is leaving, and Lakers get nothing.

Howard leaving or staying in LA is a WHOLE different conversation... you're an idiot dude you're all over the place with your arguments. Spitting out stats that say Kobe should "lose" rings, and that he was a mere role player, then following it up with Howard wants to leave because of Kobe's selfish attitude. lolol you're a joke

All your arguments are based on speculation about opinions that are in your distorted ass mind

[Ratzz]

but you included game 2 where he got hurt and played just 9 mins (1-3 fg).

any unbiased observer would exclude such an anomaly and see that he scored 19ppg in 4 full games.

LOL..

if KOBE missed TWO FULL GAMES and the LAKER STILL won.... in 6 GAMES

then it ONLY PROVES MY POINT FURTHER (Kobe r0le pla-yahh!)
(the Lakers did not need him at all)

just along for the ride.. got his lucky ring anyway

[una13ombr]

You argue like a little bitch on her period. Cap locks, colorful font, EvErY OThER LeTTeR douched out.

My guess is you're a loner in life with zero friends who constantly argues with everyone you come in contact with about every little thing.
To be honest you have said nothing of real value, just opinions on how you think Kobe is a role player compared to his 2000 NBA finals. Theres nothing left to argue.. you cant fix stupid, and you my friend are BEYOND stupid

[crustyme]

I'm afraid that word and Ratzz when he speaks about Kobe/the Lakers are incompatible.

Notice how he says he "could've" done 2001 and 2002 as well but conveniently chose not to.

I don't mind the guy otherwise but he's fukking annoying when he talks about his friends in purple and gold.

oh i remember who this ratzz guy is now.

after kobe had a terrible shooting night (3-21fg), ratzz bragged that lebron never has bad nights like this. that is until i posted a box score where he shot 2-18fg.

[Ratzz]

You argue like a little bitch on her period. Cap locks, colorful font, EvErY OThER LeTTeR douched out.

My guess is you're a loner in life with zero friends who constantly argues with everyone you come in contact with about every little thing.
To be honest you have said nothing of real value, just opinions on how you think Kobe is a role player compared to his 2000 NBA finals. Theres nothing left to argue.. you cant fix stupid, and you my friend are BEYOND stupid

lol.. the psychotic individual you are describing sounds very much like "The Unabomber"

OH wait––*that's YOUR name!

[una13ombr]

lol.. the psychotic individual you are describing sounds very much like "The Unabomber"

OH wait––*that's YOUR name!

HaHaHa LiKe OmG GoOd OnE GirL!
wrong forum F A g G o T

[Ratzz]

but really… i should probably stop picking on k0be.

…he is a dinosaur. He is now obsolete.
Lebron's star is now as bright as k0be's ever was...
and by this time next year; Lebron will have eclipsed him forever.

k0be will never again play in a playoff game (i predicted as much at the beginning of this season, and was correct)

When he attempts to desperately come back.. he likely will force the proper healing time, and suffer another
rupture of the same tendon. Ending his career on that note.

Thoughout next year, after he returns to play.. and is very limited in speed and athleticism,
all NBA sportscasters not working out of LA; will be saying that he should cease embarrassing himself and retire...

[boss_of_um]

Lebron is such a great player that the defensive strategy is to "back off him and give him wide open shots." No one can stop him going to the basket. No doubt about that. Which is why he shoots such a high fg%. But damn the greatest player is given wide open shots because no one respects his jump shot? He made them in the biggest game so big props to him. But still it is sad that NOBODY respects his shooting ability. And he is the best out there.

[Ratzz]

well said, Boss

Lebron is the Football equivalent of a player that can play QB, Running Back, Wide Receiver, and Offensive Line, if he had to, and play all positions at a them at an exceptional level.

he is a freak combination of size, speed, athleticism, coordination, and mental prowess.

dude is off the charts.. i am not from Cleveland, not from Miami, just enjoy creative play.
You never see guys that size with an outside shot/3 pt. shot

you never see guys that size pass like that.

lotta guys his size are rebounds and dunks only. Never complete threat anywhere on floor.

[boss_of_um]

No denying his physical traits and what he can do on the court. It is really special which pains me to say because I thought he was a punk when we walked off the court during the ECF loss to Orlando and the whole decision thing was beyond tacky but he has bounced back in a big way.

[Ratzz]

No denying his physical traits and what he can do on the court. It is really special which pains me to say because I thought he was a punk when we walked off the court during the ECF loss to Orlando and the whole decision thing was beyond tacky but he has bounced back in a big way.

Again, agreed, 100%.The Decision was self-indulgent and ill-advised. and has he paid the price. ouch.i thought it stupid and corny, if you are leaving your wife for a hot-piece of ass from Florida...why do it publicly, and embarrass your previous employer? Silly. such a bad move .but you know.. send the guy a car, filled with flowers..and then move on. What he has accomplished in Miami in 3 yrs, is incredible. gotta give it to him. Period. the dude is amazing.

[Menses]

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career field goal percentage is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career three point percentage is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career rebounding average is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career assist average is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career steals average is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant's career blocks average is less than that of Lebron James.

Fact: Kobe Bryant has never shot better than 50% from the floor in a single season. Lebron James has done it four years straight.

By any standard statistical measure (other than FT%) LeBron is the better player.




"Five to two" someone will say.



FACT: By age 28 Kobe Bryant had won three NBA Championship rings. Lebron James two.
FACT: By age 28 Kobe Bryant had won ZERO Finals MVP awards. Lebron James two.
FACT: By age 28 Kobe Bryant had won ZERO League MVP awards. Lebron James FOUR.

FACT: Kobe Bryant never led the league in Win Shares. Not one damn season. Lebron James has done it five years running.
FACT: Kobe Bryant led the NBA in playoff win shares one time, Lebron James has now done it five times.



FACT: Kobe Bryant has won 5 NBA titles. He has played in 220 playoff games.
FACT: Kobe Bryant has fewer career playoff win shares than Lebron James.

Read that again.

Despite Kobe having won three more titles, and despite Kobe having played in almost a hundred more career playoff games, Lebron James owns more playoff win shares.

What does that tell us?

Exactly what you'd think it does.

Kobe Bryant is a champion. He also won three of those championships playing with the greatest big man of his generation (Shaq, who not so coincidentally, was Finals MVP for all three of those titles) and the other two championships he only won with the support of the league's best all around center at the time (Gasol).


Lebron meanwhile, has won two titles carrying Chris Bosh.

I saw Jordan in his prime.
I saw Kobe in his prime.
LeBron James' greatness as a player is far more closer to Jordan's at this point than Kobe's.

Take away Shaq and Pau, and Kobe Bryant is Allen Iverson.


http://www.basketball-reference.com/...er_career.html

penetrating Brilliant post...and might I add that had Allen Iverson had a better team and a better attitude...he would have been better than Bryant himself

[GamblerSpirit]

penetrating Brilliant post...and might I add that had Allen Iverson had a better team and a better attitude...he would have been better than Bryant himself

he was as big of a ballhog as kobe but he wouldn't have done better than kobe even if he had shaq

[GamblerSpirit]

although i did enjoy watching him cook tyronn lue in that series though

[The Madcap]

penetrating Brilliant post...

Ball don't lie.

And neither does math.





Well, unless you've got Kobe's ejaculate on your chin. Then somehow math becomes an inconceivable nuisance.

[The Madcap]

he was as big of a ballhog as kobe but he wouldn't have done better than kobe even if he had shaq

What makes you say that?

And I am by no means an Allen Iverson fan. I much prefer Kobe as a player and a person to A.I. (though my grandmother would probably smack me for saying that. She loved Iverson.)

Just curious as to why you think Iverson wouldn't have out performed Kobe if he'd had Shaq by his side?

Dog Iverson all you want for his shot selection and not sharing the ball, but ask yourself, seriously, who was he supposed to share it with?

Keith Van Horn?

Here's a list of quality players Kobe had as teammates over the years helping spread the floor and take defensive pressure off him night after night.....

Shaquille O'Neal (Hall of Famer)
Glenn Rice (multiple All Star)
Eddie Jones (multiple All Star)
Horace Grant (all star, all NBA defensive team, career fg percentage above 50%)
Gary Payton (Hall of Famer)
Karl Malone (Hall of Famer)
Caron Butler (multiple All Star)
Lamar Odom (Sixth man of the year, routinely top 30 in PPG for 10+ years)
Andrew Bynum (All star, top five center in the league every season since he became a starter)
Pau Gasol (multiple All Star, career 18 ppg scorer, likely Hall of Famer)
Ron Artest (All star, NBA defensive player of the year, 20 ppg scorer multiple times)
Dwight Howard (All Star every season of his career, 3x NBA defensive player of the year)
Antawn Jamison (multiple All Star)

and that's not even counting all the first class role players over the years like Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry etc.

Now here's the complete list of quality players Allen Iverson got to play with.....

Dikembe Mutombo







OK, you got me, that's not the true complete list. I was just joking about. Seriously this time, here it is....

Dikembe Mutombo (for two seasons, one of which the Sixers went to the NBA Finals)
Toni Kukoc (half a season)
Chris Webber (one good season before his knee finally gave out)
Derrick Coleman (The poster boy for under-achieving headcases)
Andre Iguodola


and that's it.

Iverson spent the bulk of his career busting his ass trying to win games with backcourt mates like Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, and Kevin Ollie. Kobe gets pissy if he has to play one season with Smush Parker. And Smush Parker has a higher career scoring average than all three of those guys.

Iverson had ONE decent supporting cast. 2001. They went to the finals. They lost to Shaq. As did Pop/Duncan's Spurs, Reggie/Bird's Pacers, and everyone else who was any decent at the time.

You stick Kobe on a team where his other four starters are a bunch of average players like Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Samuel Dalenbert, and Matt Gieger and see how he does.

Like I don't know, say Chucky Atkins, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton and Jumaine Jones. I bet you could put Lamar Odom and Caron Butler on that team and Kobe still couldn't get them to the playoffs.

Iverson carried chumps like that to the playoffs year after year. And without the help of Phil Jackson.

[GamblerSpirit]

kobe is the better athlete/the better shooter/more dominating
AI stopped driving to the rim and just started hoisting up jumpers constantly
never struck me as one of the best to ever play
very entertaining though

[Ratzz]

What makes you say that?

Here's a list of quality players Kobe had as teammates over the years helping spread the floor and take defensive pressure off him night after night.....

Shaquille O'Neal (Hall of Famer)
Glenn Rice (multiple All Star)
Eddie Jones (multiple All Star)
Horace Grant (all star, all NBA defensive team, career fg percentage above 50%)
Gary Payton (Hall of Famer)
Karl Malone (Hall of Famer)
Caron Butler (multiple All Star)
Lamar Odom (Sixth man of the year, routinely top 30 in PPG for 10+ years)
Andrew Bynum (All star, top five center in the league every season since he became a starter)
Pau Gasol (multiple All Star, career 18 ppg scorer, likely Hall of Famer)
Ron Artest (All star, NBA defensive player of the year, 20 ppg scorer multiple times)
Dwight Howard (All Star every season of his career, 3x NBA defensive player of the year)
Antawn Jamison (multiple All Star)

and that's not even counting all the first class role players over the years like Rick Fox, Derek Fisher, Robert Horry etc.

Now here's the complete list of quality players Allen Iverson got to play with.....

*Dikembe Mutombo (for two seasons, one of which the Sixers went to the NBA Finals)
Toni Kukoc (half a season)
Chris Webber (one good season before his knee finally gave out)
Derrick Coleman (The poster boy for under-achieving headcases)
Andre Iguodola


and that's it.

Iverson spent the bulk of his career busting his ass trying to win games with backcourt mates like Aaron McKie, Eric Snow, and Kevin Ollie. Kobe gets pissy if he has to play one season with Smush Parker. And Smush Parker has a higher career scoring average than all three of those guys.

Iverson had ONE decent supporting cast. 2001. They went to the finals. They lost to Shaq. As did Pop/Duncan's Spurs, Reggie/Bird's Pacers, and everyone else who was any decent at the time.

You stick Kobe on a team where his other four starters are a bunch of average players like Eric Snow, Aaron McKie, Samuel Dalenbert, and Matt Gieger and see how he does.

Like I don't know, say Chucky Atkins, Chris Mihm, Luke Walton and Jumaine Jones. I bet you could put Lamar Odom and Caron Butler on that team and Kobe still couldn't get them to the playoffs.

Iverson carried chumps like that to the playoffs year after year. And without the help of Phil Jackson.

spot on the money. facts eliminate debate altogether. this is a well presented slam-dunk.

excellent work, sir

[The Madcap]

kobe is the better athlete/the better shooter/more dominating
AI stopped driving to the rim and just started hoisting up jumpers constantly
never struck me as one of the best to ever play
very entertaining though

Hoisting jumpers constantly? Ain't that mostly what Kobe's done for the better part of the last five years?

As for the rest....

???

Iverson was one of the quickest/most agile players in the history of the league. This is how he led the league in steals three times. Dude was barely 6 feet tall in hightops and 160 lbs soaking wet. You can't put up one of the top 10 highest career scoring averages in the history of the league with diminutive size like that unless you're one hell of a fukking athlete.


Now, statistically, you're right, Kobe is a better shooter. But again, Kobe had the luxury of playing with guys like Shaq and Gasol commanding double teams in the paint his whole career. That gives you a little extra space to get clean looks at the rim and become a "better shooter."

And if you think Iverson wasn't every bit as capable of dominating, you didn't see enough Sixers games.

Like this back to back effort......

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200106030PHI.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200106060LAL.html

[boss_of_um]

At what point in the conversation do we bring up the fact the Eastern Conference has been an absolute JOKE essentially for the last 10+ years. The Lakers teams of the early 2000's had to deal with multiple teams which would have run rough shod over the East during the same time period. Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento. This is why Iverson was able to lead a weak team to the finals. Put that same team in the West and they don't make the playoffs. Detroit was solid early. Boston got good late with the arrival of Garnett and Allen. The real Finals were the Western Conference Finals for quite a while.

[The Madcap]

At what point in the conversation do we bring up the fact the Eastern Conference has been an absolute JOKE essentially for the last 10+ years. The Lakers teams of the early 2000's had to deal with multiple teams which would have run rough shod over the East during the same time period. Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento. This is why Iverson was able to lead a weak team to the finals. Put that same team in the West and they don't make the playoffs. Detroit was solid early. Boston got good late with the arrival of Garnett and Allen. The real Finals were the Western Conference Finals for quite a while.

Totally legit point.

But it's not like there weren't ANY good teams in the east. Pat Riley's Mourning/Hardaway Heat teams were damned good for a few years. And the Spree/Houston/LJ Knicks weren't far behind the top teams in the West. But yeah, other than that not too much to write home about. A lot of random one/two year-wonder teams ala the Nets/Bucks.

I don't think it changes the overall picture though.

Take Kobe from the Lakers and switch him with Iverson in Philly. Would there have been any fukking difference with those Sixers teams? Kobe wouldn't have beaten Shaq with those chumps either. And it's not like Iverson wouldn't have fared well feeding Shaq for dunk after dunk those three title seasons either.

Now, would Iverson have won the extra two titles after Shaq left like Kobe did? I doubt it. Something tells me after winning three straight he would have chased the money and not given a shit about more titles. That's one thing I'll always give Kobe. He's never played the game just to make money or ghetto street cred. He always had the perspective to give a shit about winning. Perhaps not more than getting the credit for winning, but he still gave a shit. Iverson never seemed to look at his career with that sort of forward thinking. He was an in-the- moment player. He didn't analyze his game or his approach nor did he get involved very often with personnel issues. He showed up and he balled. But then, he never had a coach like Phil Jackson help instil a deeper sense of desire or intuition.

[Menses]

he was as big of a ballhog as kobe but he wouldn't have done better than kobe even if he had shaq

I am not sure if i agree or disagree with that statement....but one thing is for sure...you have the best AV of the year...only mac might be better...

[William Walters]

if Kobe was not on the Lakers for those first three.. Lakers win anyways.*

Quite possibly the most RETARDED post you've ever made.

There are no NBA Finals without first getting through the Western Conference Finals. Kobe DOMINATED the WCF............carrying the Lakers. Shaq has zero rings and/or finals MVP's without Kobe (as a Laker).

[King Mayan]

At what point in the conversation do we bring up the fact the Eastern Conference has been an absolute JOKE essentially for the last 10+ years. The Lakers teams of the early 2000's had to deal with multiple teams which would have run rough shod over the East during the same time period. Portland, San Antonio, Sacramento. This is why Iverson was able to lead a weak team to the finals. Put that same team in the West and they don't make the playoffs. Detroit was solid early. Boston got good late with the arrival of Garnett and Allen. The real Finals were the Western Conference Finals for quite a while.

[boss_of_um]

Larry Brown was a pretty decent coach Madcap and he couldn't even get Iverson to practice

[The Madcap]

Larry Brown was a pretty decent coach Madcap and he couldn't even get Iverson to practice

That's because Larry Brown is a one-track hardass who didn't know how to adjust to his players. He could only make his players adjust to him.

Comparing Larry Brown to Phil Jackson is like comparing Nolan Richardson to John Wooden.

[Goat Milk]

Yeah he only got two rings, but he carried the Heat on his back in both playoffs runs and the Finals. Kobe's never had a single signature game in the NBA finals.

LOL. YOu don't watch basketball very often, do you? Go look at Bryant's finals games and then come back here. Never had a sig game in the finals? LMAO!

Also. With all he's done in the finals, just look what he did against Popovich many years. He buried the Spurs with his late game heroics. He did it to many teams in the playoffs. Buzzer beaters in the Playoffs. Lebron has hit 2 buzzer beaters in the playoffs in his whole career.

Lebron's finals averages are no where near bryants.

[Goat Milk]

That's because Larry Brown is a one-track hardass who didn't know how to adjust to his players. He could only make his players adjust to him.

Comparing Larry Brown to Phil Jackson is like comparing Nolan Richardson to John Wooden.

1. Shooting is not just about statistics. Next thing you are going to say Lebron or D-Wade is a better shooter than Bryant because they both shoot 50%? You think Popovich would ever back 5 feet off Bryant like he did to these guys and tell him to shoot? No chance.

2. Bryant was robbed of an mvp. every basketball fan knows this.

3. Lebron is playing with one of the top 20 players in nba history in D wade. Numbers speak for themselves.

4. Lebron never did anything before he joined Wade.

5. How do we even know what kind of coach Phil Jackson is if he coached the two greatest players in NBA history?