UFC 161 6/15 Rua v Little Nog

[El Nino]

Uh, he's probably a lot more relevant than Shogun right now. Chael's last few wins have been against excellent competition, the weakest of his last four has been Brian Stann, who was still top ten at the time.

Many people had him losing that Bisping fight. Stann is a can and he beat Okami in 2009. Chael is only relevant these days because of his mouth and his willingness to take an ass whooping. The 205lb. division is the weakest it has ever been.

[Crassus]

Uh, he's probably a lot more relevant than Shogun right now. Chael's last few wins have been against excellent competition, the weakest of his last four has been Brian Stann, who was still top ten at the time.

at 185. He was Jon Jones easiest fight by far since winning the title at 205.

[Thor4140]

Many people had him losing that Bisping fight. Stann is a can and he beat Okami in 2009. Chael is only relevant these days because of his mouth and his willingness to take an ass whooping. The 205lb. division is the weakest it has ever been.

how quickly people forget. I wonder what would have happen if Sonnen didn't try to throw that silly spinning shit in Silva 2. Round one went just like the five he dominated in their first fight. The guy is a good fighter. Amazing how guys have him a can now when he fought the best fighter in the world and came way closer than anyone in beating him.

[MD]

at 185. He was Jon Jones easiest fight by far since winning the title at 205.

I don't even understand why you'd say that. There's no way you don't realize that styles make fights and Jones is a horrible stylistic match-up for Chael.

Also, technically, Chael Sonnen is one of only two fighters to ever land more strikes than Jones in a fight against him. He landed three times as many strikes in five minutes as Shogun landed in three rounds. He landed 1.5x as many strikes as Rampage. Time != effort.

[Hannibal]

Sonnen landed more strikes on jones than jones did on him?? Did I miss the fight or something? I remember sonnen being manhandled and elbowed to oblivion on the ground

[Crassus]

I don't even understand why you'd say that. There's no way you don't realize that styles make fights and Jones is a horrible stylistic match-up for Chael.

Also, technically, Chael Sonnen is one of only two fighters to ever land more strikes than Jones in a fight against him. He landed three times as many strikes in five minutes as Shogun landed in three rounds. He landed 1.5x as many strikes as Rampage. Time != effort.

Jones is a horrible stylistic match-up for anybody, cmon now that's not a defense. Technically maybe he landed strikes but you watched the fight, Jones was never once concerned, or even phased. In the Shogun fight there were moments of Shogun landing some solid strikes (if I remember right), the rampage fight he literally ran away when Rampage got a combo going, etc etc. The Chael fight was joke in my opinion, I had hopes he'd be able to pull it off but nah.

The guy is too small for 205 and too old for 185. Honestly, I'd have bet on Wanderlei at 205 over Sonnen. All of Sonnen's advantages are outweighed by his weaknesses at 205. At least from this end.

[MD]

Jones is a horrible stylistic match-up for anybody, cmon now that's not a defense. Technically maybe he landed strikes but you watched the fight, Jones was never once concerned, or even phased. In the Shogun fight there were moments of Shogun landing some solid strikes (if I remember right), the rampage fight he literally ran away when Rampage got a combo going, etc etc. The Chael fight was joke in my opinion, I had hopes he'd be able to pull it off but nah.

The guy is too small for 205 and too old for 185. Honestly, I'd have bet on Wanderlei at 205 over Sonnen. All of Sonnen's advantages are outweighed by his weaknesses at 205. At least from this end.

It's a pretty good defence, actually. How Jones handles someone doesn't define their relevance.

He's by no means too small for 205. Have you seen Chael recently? He's not much smaller than Junior Dos Santos when he's at his walk around weight.

[Crassus]

It's a pretty good defence, actually. How Jones handles someone doesn't define their relevance.

He's by no means too small for 205. Have you seen Chael recently? He's not much smaller than Junior Dos Santos when he's at his walk around weight.

Well how should we define Chael's relevance at 205? His last fight at 205 other than Jones? I mean it's not the best way of looking at it because everyone looks bad against Jon Jones but I really firmly believe that Jones had his easiest fight in a long long time against Sonnen.
The 230lb Chael is total BS. I can't believe it, there was talk about 220 that I was skeptical of but I could buy, but that's at walk-around weight. By fight night I bet he walks around closer to 205 (like Hendo)-210, small for a LHW. Again nothings confirmable but from my end he looked really small.

[MD]

Well how should we define Chael's relevance at 205? His last fight at 205 other than Jones? I mean it's not the best way of looking at it because everyone looks bad against Jon Jones but I really firmly believe that Jones had his easiest fight in a long long time against Sonnen.
The 230lb Chael is total BS. I can't believe it, there was talk about 220 that I was skeptical of but I could buy, but that's at walk-around weight. By fight night I bet he walks around closer to 205 (like Hendo)-210, small for a LHW. Again nothings confirmable but from my end he looked really small.

I define Chael's relevance by his recent fights; he had two good showings against Anderson, beat one top ten fighter and three top five fighters, and lost to Jones decisively. Much better than Shogun's recent ledger. I'm not really sure why the fact that the fight is at 205 affects his relevance, we're not talking about whether or not either guy is going to get a title shot any time soon.

Isn't Chael's claimed walk-around weight 243? Jones, Chael and Dolce have all said he's over 240.

[Crassus]

I define Chael's relevance by his recent fights; he had two good showings against Anderson, beat one top ten fighter and three top five fighters, and lost to Jones decisively. Much better than Shogun's recent ledger. I'm not really sure why the fact that the fight is at 205 affects his relevance, we're not talking about whether or not either guy is going to get a title shot any time soon.

Isn't Chael's claimed walk-around weight 243? Jones, Chael and Dolce have all said he's over 240.

You really don't think it's relevant that he's fighting at 205 now? In my opinion, at 205 Chael loses his strength advantage, his speed isn't gonna be amazing for a LHW and he's fighting guys that are now going to be in my opinion much larger than him. It's a whole new ballpark really, I don't think he'll be nearly as effective given the kind of fighter he is.

I've heard that but I've also heard Dolce say he could make cyborg make 135 easy. Plus I've heard reports saying he's more around 220.

[MD]

You really don't think it's relevant that he's fighting at 205 now? In my opinion, at 205 Chael loses his strength advantage, his speed isn't gonna be amazing for a LHW and he's fighting guys that are now going to be in my opinion much larger than him. It's a whole new ballpark really, I don't think he'll be nearly as effective given the kind of fighter he is.

I've heard that but I've also heard Dolce say he could make cyborg make 135 easy. Plus I've heard reports saying he's more around 220.

Not when he's still going to be bigger than his next opponent, no.

220? Where did you hear that? Chael, Chael's last opponent and Chael's nutritionist put Chael at 240 and above. Good enough for me. Don't see why you wouldn't trust that.

[Crassus]

Not when he's still going to be bigger than his next opponent, no.

220? Where did you hear that? Chael, Chael's last opponent and Chael's nutritionist put Chael at 240 and above. Good enough for me. Don't see why you wouldn't trust that.

I really don't buy that he'll be bigger than Shogun. Maybe at weigh-ins i'll be proven wrong but I don't think Chael is strong enough to be playing the kind of game he needs to play to win. He won't be able to bully on the ground nearly as much because he won't be as much stronger as he is used to (or if my assumptions correct, he'll even be the weaker man that night).

I don't think there's anyway to prove this to each other, we'll see at weigh-ins if it becomes official and we'll see for sure whether or not Chael is bigger than Shogun. Either way, depending on the odds I'm liking Rua.

[MD]

I really don't buy that he'll be bigger than Shogun. Maybe at weigh-ins i'll be proven wrong but I don't think Chael is strong enough to be playing the kind of game he needs to play to win. He won't be able to bully on the ground nearly as much because he won't be as much stronger as he is used to (or if my assumptions correct, he'll even be the weaker man that night).

I don't think there's anyway to prove this to each other, we'll see at weigh-ins if it becomes official and we'll see for sure whether or not Chael is bigger than Shogun. Either way, depending on the odds I'm liking Rua.

What is there to prove? Subjectively judging size at a weigh-in isn't going to prove anything. Chael Sonnen, Chael Sonnen's nutritionist and Chael Sonnen's last opponent all put his weight around 240. Saying he'll be 220 is Thor territory.

[raag]

Dolce tends to speak in hyperbole a lot. In the same sentence where he said he walked at 240 he said Chael would be stronger than Jones... we saw how that played out.

That said, Chael would very likely be bigger than Shogun in terms of lean body mass. Their frames are similar, just Chael carries more muscle and is leaner.

[Rubber Guard]

Weight aside, he obviously won't be the wrestler he was a few years ago at 185. He is older. He is in a new division. He had great trouble with Bisping. Anderson stuffed a few TDs in their 2nd fight. And he was ragdolled by Jones. Not saying he won't get Shogun down, but it won't be as easy as he made it look vs. Anderson in their 1st fight. Shogun is pretty crafty on the ground as well, going for leg locks and what not. I think he beats Sonnen no doubt. That is scary to say though, as Shogun is so sporadic.

[MD]

Weight aside, he obviously won't be the wrestler he was a few years ago at 185. He is older. He is in a new division. He had great trouble with Bisping. Anderson stuffed a few TDs in their 2nd fight. And he was ragdolled by Jones. Not saying he won't get Shogun down, but it won't be as easy as he made it look vs. Anderson in their 1st fight. Shogun is pretty crafty on the ground as well, going for leg locks and what not. I think he beats Sonnen no doubt. That is scary to say though, as Shogun is so sporadic.

Shogun's been taken by every fighter he's fought in his last thirteen fights, though. The last guy he fought who didn't take him down was Diabate. I'm not sure if Sonnen's wrestling has faded; Bisping's TDD is outrageously good, and I think we can both agree that if Shogun wins, it's probably a round one KO. I doubt he has the gas tank to beat Sonnen if he can't stuff him early, and if he's stuffing him early, he should be getting a KO early, too.

[Rubber Guard]

Shogun's been taken by every fighter he's fought in his last thirteen fights, though. The last guy he fought who didn't take him down was Diabate. I'm not sure if Sonnen's wrestling has faded; Bisping's TDD is outrageously good, and I think we can both agree that if Shogun wins, it's probably a round one KO. I doubt he has the gas tank to beat Sonnen if he can't stuff him early, and if he's stuffing him early, he should be getting a KO early, too.

Even though he gets taken down, he does a solid job at getting back up or creating a scramble. He will give Sonnen fits from bottom I think, or at least make it tough to control him. Shogun doesn't have a great gas tank, but I think he can go 2 real good rounds and maybe a 3rd decent one. But if it goes that long it is probably Sonnen wrestling him. Shogun just has many more ways to win. Quick KO. Get taken down and get back up and KO. Or sub from the bottom. Or if Sonnen is tough enough...possible win a close dec. with judges weighing out damage/strikes vs TDs. Like in the Bisping fight.

[MD]

I agree that he's very underrated off of his back. That said, I think that if Shogun gets taken down, it's only going to get progressively worse from him. He may stand up a couple of times, but he'll just go straight back down, and each time, he'll get a little bit more tired.

[Rubber Guard]

I agree that he's very underrated off of his back. That said, I think that if Shogun gets taken down, it's only going to get progressively worse from him. He may stand up a couple of times, but he'll just go straight back down, and each time, he'll get a little bit more tired.

Really depends on Sonnen's gas. With 240lbs comes more of a load to carry around. Hard to keep that pace at a weight bigger than he has been for a while. At his age, and more mass, Chael may get tired quicker himself.

[brooks85]

where is this pic or video of chael at 240?

[Crassus]

What is there to prove? Subjectively judging size at a weigh-in isn't going to prove anything. Chael Sonnen, Chael Sonnen's nutritionist and Chael Sonnen's last opponent all put his weight around 240. Saying he'll be 220 is Thor territory.

You really buy 240? Chael Sonnen and Chael Sonnen's nutritionist are known exaggerators or straight up liars when it comes to things. Remember Dolce saying Cyborg was going to be 135 no problem, and suddenly she can't? 250 is something Rampage weighed in at fat as hell at the beginning of training after a-team. Chael's walking around 10lbs lighter than an incredibly out of shape Rampage? Pfftt.

EDIT: I'm willing to buy that I'm totally wrong about 220, but I don't buy 240, not without proof. Even something like this http://www.bjpenn.com/quick-twitt-bi...lasquez-fight/ would be good. There's a better one of him actually on the scale at 280 or something.

[mirinquads]

I dont buy anything Dolce says, and 240? Thats just complete non sense, which is obvious to anyone with a little physiological knowledge. A 6'1" 240 lbs man looks something like this



Sorry for the homo picture, only one I could find that wasnt out of proportion.

Now Chael is carrying more fat, and I could buy 220, but not 240. Which is actually a good thing, as i'd rather see him coming in lighter as he'd gas at 240 lbs. I'm very interested in seeing this line.. Is Sonnen still on dat dere TRT?

[Thor4140]

Even though he gets taken down, he does a solid job at getting back up or creating a scramble. He will give Sonnen fits from bottom I think, or at least make it tough to control him. Shogun doesn't have a great gas tank, but I think he can go 2 real good rounds and maybe a 3rd decent one. But if it goes that long it is probably Sonnen wrestling him. Shogun just has many more ways to win. Quick KO. Get taken down and get back up and KO. Or sub from the bottom. Or if Sonnen is tough enough...possible win a close dec. with judges weighing out damage/strikes vs TDs. Like in the Bisping fight.

Man Rubber having Sonnen on top of u is a whole different animal than almost everyone Shogun has faced. I could see him whipping out some of those leg locks tho.