Rollover bonuses always confuse me, is this good??

yisman · 12-29-12, 10:06 PM

because most books will not refund your freeplay on a push and because in general, freeplays should be used on long shots. You get more EV out of them that way. They should never be used on straight sides/totals

spider · 12-30-12, 02:29 PM

suppose you have a freeplay for 200 from book A . play the home to win with the freeplay for 200. then play at book B the visiting team for 100.

if home team wins, you win 200 from book A , and lose 100 to book B = net +100

if home team loses, you lose 0 from book A , and win 100 from book B = net +100

sit back and enjoy your +100 , no matter who wins.

(also you could make more if you can maneuver a middle on the above game)

yisman · 12-30-12, 02:47 PM

That means you're getting less than a 50% return on your freeplay

A better way would be to use your freeplay on a huge underdog (ML if possible, or parlays if not). You can get upwards of 70% this way.

If you can use the freeplay on huge underdogs on the ML and you want to be assured of getting something, you can play the favorite ML with real moeny.

seaborneq · 12-30-12, 03:46 PM

Why wouldn't you just use freeplay money like any other betting money other than the hook. Are you trying to get richer off of a freeplay than just a regular unit bet? What gives? Treat a free play like any other unit wager, if you value your money just bet it like you normally would.

Digo · 12-30-12, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Capybara

If I drop Bookmaker 300 bucks, they'll give me a 100% bonus making it 600, but with 10X rollover on the whole thing -- so wagering 6,000 before I can withdraw obviously.

Is this good? It seems okay to me, I don't usually have any issues with making tons of wagers, lol, but on the other hand, I hate getting scammed w/ crappy deals...

Thanks!!!!!!

You need to check if the bookmaker is trustable and the terms of this rollover, like minimum odds, time to complete...

yisman · 12-30-12, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

Why wouldn't you just use freeplay money like any other betting money other than the hook. Are you trying to get richer off of a freeplay than just a regular unit bet? What gives? Treat a free play like any other unit wager, if you value your money just bet it like you normally would.

because a freeplay is very different than real money

with a real money bet you get stake+winnings back

freeplay means you only get winnings

so if you use it on a -110 bet, your 110 freeplay returns 100 if it wins, meaning under a 50% return (factoring in the chance you lose). If you bet it on a +400, you are getting significantly better value.

If you used it like regular money, you might bet it on a -400. That means best case scenario, you only get 25% back from your freeplay.

milwaukee mike · 12-30-12, 04:19 PM

unbelievable that people still don't know how to bet a freeplay.

if the max is +200 and you don't see anything you like, just split it up and bet every +160 to +200 on the board. or hedge it off somewhere else by taking +200 on the freeplay and -220 with real cash.

it's amazing there are so many people that gamble and can't understand basic math.

seaborneq · 12-30-12, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

unbelievable that people still don't know how to bet a freeplay.

if the max is +200 and you don't see anything you like, just split it up and bet every +160 to +200 on the board. or hedge it off somewhere else by taking +200 on the freeplay and -220 with real cash.

it's amazing there are so many people that gamble and can't understand basic math.

Hedging indicates you expect to lose. Why would you throw real money into a freeplay wager? I don't get it.

milwaukee mike · 12-30-12, 04:35 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

Hedging indicates you expect to lose. Why would you throw real money into a freeplay wager? I don't get it.

wow

ok i have better things to do, but i'll break it down for you. let's take 6 $100 freeplays.

option 1, put them all on -110 stuff and win 3 (over the long run let's assume these hit how they should). so now you have won $90 3 times, turning your freeplays into $270.

option 2, put them all on +190 stuff, winning 2 over the long run (again, since w/o juice they would be +200 or 1/3rd chance). so now you have $190 twice, turning your freeplays into $380.

over a million bets, it really doesn't matter whether you hedge them or not, other than losing a bit of juice. if you hedged everything in option 2 by betting the -210s on the other side you would still have a net of $360.

seaborneq · 12-30-12, 04:42 PM

If that is how the majority thinks you should use a freeplay I guess I am out of the loop. It's hard enough to pick -110 let alone +190's and up. I better stick to what I know and just use a freeplay to win 50% versus using money I already have to break even.

yisman · 12-30-12, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

If that is how the majority thinks you should use a freeplay I guess I am out of the loop. It's hard enough to pick -110 let alone +190's and up. I better stick to what I know and just use a freeplay to win 50% versus using money I already have to break even.

So basically you're getting about a 45% return on your freeplay money rather than the 70+% you could get if you bet longshots.

You may as well give someone a dollar in return for three quarters or split 10s playing blackjack.

seaborneq · 12-30-12, 04:49 PM

Originally posted by yisman

So basically you're getting about a 45% return on your freeplay money rather than the 70+% you could get if you bet longshots.
You may as well give someone a dollar in return for three quarters or split 10s playing blackjack.

I have never made money betting longshots and probably never will. My loss your gain.

Fall778899 · 12-30-12, 06:51 PM

Sportsbooks should forget about all the freeplay and rollover garbage. Put your energy into paying people in a timely fashion.

milwaukee mike · 12-30-12, 07:48 PM

Originally posted by Fall778899

Sportsbooks should forget about all the freeplay and rollover garbage. Put your energy into paying people in a timely fashion.

why would you play with an online sportsbook vs a local if they didn't give you bonuses?

erickvivar · 12-31-12, 01:48 AM

Look for cash bonuses. These are some sites I use and offer them.

Betphoenix (25% cash + 50 FP, fixed bonuses)
BetRevolution (90%, 65%, 40% all cash bonuses, changes every few days)
Betlatina (5%, 20%, 25% cash bonuses, fixed bonuses)

RO is higher than free plays but you are starting with cash on hand.

Hankwins · 12-31-12, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by erickvivar

Look for cash bonuses. These are some sites I use and offer them.

Betphoenix (25% cash + 50 FP, fixed bonuses)
BetRevolution (90%, 65%, 40% all cash bonuses, changes every few days)
Betlatina (5%, 20%, 25% cash bonuses, fixed bonuses)

RO is higher than free plays but you are starting with cash on hand.

good point.

Fall778899 · 12-31-12, 07:24 AM

I don't think your local has 500-1,000 betting options every day. Hey free plays and bonuses are great, just seems like a lot of scamming and manipulation on both sides. Locals are 1 front door from getting kicked in and wave good bye to your money. (If your up)

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 09:43 AM

Originally posted by Fall778899

I don't think your local has 500-1,000 betting options every day. Hey free plays and bonuses are great, just seems like a lot of scamming and manipulation on both sides. Locals are 1 front door from getting kicked in and wave good bye to your money. (If your up)

as opposed to the iron-clad safety of having money in a costa rican sports book

seaborneq · 12-31-12, 02:18 PM

Pros and cons to locals and offshore. The freeplay usage will always depend on what you think you are getting from the books. The books are in it to make money, not give it away.

Capybara · 12-31-12, 04:17 PM

It's funny how this thread is still going.

I must say I'd never done the statistical thinking that is in here about freeplays, it's quite interesting to read...

Forget if I said earlier, but I decided to just take the 25% bonus (yes, it's always freeplay now I guess) with a 6X rollover on the initial deposit. So dropped them 400 and got a 100 freeplay, and thus am only required to wager $2,400 for the ability to withdraw. Shouldn't be any issue. Now I just need to fukkin hit stuff because yesterday mostly sucked.

I am going to follow the above strategies with the freeplay. Already started unsuccessfully actually. Tried for a couple of 2-teamers, both fails. But got 70 of it left.

opie1988 · 12-31-12, 04:20 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

as opposed to the iron-clad safety of having money in a costa rican sports book

Exactly what I was thinking!

seaborneq · 12-31-12, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Capybara

It's funny how this thread is still going.

I must say I'd never done the statistical thinking that is in here about freeplays, it's quite interesting to read...

Forget if I said earlier, but I decided to just take the 25% bonus (yes, it's always freeplay now I guess) with a 6X rollover on the initial deposit. So dropped them 400 and got a 100 freeplay, and thus am only required to wager $2,400 for the ability to withdraw. Shouldn't be any issue. Now I just need to fukkin hit stuff because yesterday mostly sucked.

I am going to follow the above strategies with th
e freeplay. Already started unsuccessfully actually. Tried for a couple of 2-teamers, both fails. But got 70 of it left.

Don't forget to play some long shots and put some of your original deposit against it so you can break even..

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 05:30 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

Don't forget to play some long shots and put some of your original deposit against it so you can break even..

seaborne is the type of guy that wouldn't take 100-1 odds that he will roll a 7 because he is expected to lose the bet

Capybara · 12-31-12, 05:36 PM

Originally posted by seaborneq

Don't forget to play some long shots and put some of your original deposit against it so you can break even..

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

seaborne is the type of guy that wouldn't take 100-1 odds that he will roll a 7 because he is expected to lose the bet

Oh crap, you guys are confusing me again! Is seaborne being sarcastic or not? You guys have got me all fukked up here! Someone kindly spell it all out IN LENGTHY, OVER-DESCRIPTIVE WORDING LIKE I WAS A FUKKING 10-YEAR-OLD the CORRECT WAY TO DO A FREEPLAY!! Do we need to do a poll on it??? Do we need a consensus in here?

For the record, I aced Stat 211 in college, but I forget it all... Also, I aced everything up through Algebra II in high school, however I could never grasp calculus. Am I a dumbass?

Someone fukkin finish this already. Also provide links if possible please to the "Official Degenerates' Guide to Freeplays."

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 05:42 PM

if they allow you to do 3-team parlays with the freeplays (like sbr does), then take all 8 possible combinations on games that can't end in a push.

that way $800 of freeplays will turn into a GUARANTEED $580. not many places allow this.

if not, then do the MAXIMUM ALLOWED. IF THE MAX IS +200 THEN TAKE A BUNCH OF +160 TO +200 STUFF. it's far from "breaking even" to take a $100 freeplay, bet it on +200, and bet the other side at -220 at a different book (140 to win 63). that guarantees you either $60 or $63 out of the $100 freeplay (62% or so), much better than -110 stuff unless you plan on hitting 70% winners on -110 bets

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 05:43 PM

if you have no money at another book, then just bet $5 on every +180 you see. you'll almost certainly get more than $50 out of 100 worth of free plays.

Capybara · 12-31-12, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

if they allow you to do 3-team parlays with the freeplays (like sbr does), then take all 8 possible combinations on games that can't end in a push.

that way $800 of freeplays will turn into a GUARANTEED $580. not many places allow this.

if not, then do the MAXIMUM ALLOWED. IF THE MAX IS +200 THEN TAKE A BUNCH OF +160 TO +200 STUFF. it's far from "breaking even" to take a $100 freeplay, bet it on +200, and bet the other side at -220 at a different book (140 to win 63). that guarantees you either $60 or $63 out of the $100 freeplay (62% or so), much better than -110 stuff unless you plan on hitting 70% winners on -110 bets

I have no idea what they "allow" because no one fukking told me using freeplays is akin to rocket science. You fukkin tell me what Bookmaker allows, I have zero idea. Haha, but no, thank you, Mike, you are always around to explain shit (and occasionally obfuscate). See, I'm smart, I just used "obfuscate," I just can't figure out this math shit.

yisman · 12-31-12, 06:06 PM

They allow parlays but you cannot use MLs.

So I'd just use the freeplay money to parlay three or four spreads/totals you like. You could divide the bonus up into chunks of $25 or so and do a bunch of $25 parlays and hopefully you hit one or two.

Speedy88 · 12-31-12, 06:37 PM

Yeah that's a good bonus.

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 07:12 PM

here's bookmaker's rules. most important one is PUSHES LOSE, so use it on stuff with 1/2 (-3 1/2 rather than -3).

<dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">1. Free Plays can only be wagered on:</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">

• Football (NFL / NCAA)
• Basketball (NBA / NCAA / WNBA)
• Major League Baseball
• NHL
• Soccer

</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">2. The minimum deposit eligible to apply for a free play is $300 (it may vary according to the promotion).</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">3. They can be used only on straight wagers, parlays and teasers.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">4. When a customer wins a free play, he receives the win amount only.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">5. Ties lose.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">6. All free plays are subject to a rollover of the deposited amount. A player must complete the required rollover prior to taking a payout.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">7. Maximum payout for any FREE Play is $5000.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">8. Maximum bonus awarded is $500.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">9. Free Plays can only be used on major sports and cannot be used on prop bets. For football and basketball, free plays can only be applied to spread and total lines; money lines are not allowed. On NHL and baseball, free plays can be used for money lines and totals. On Soccer, free plays can only be used on spreads and totals; 3 way lines (money line) are not allowed.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">10. Free plays are not automatic . Customer has 24 hours to request a free play after the deposit is made.</dd><dd style="padding: 0px; margin: 3px 0px; list-style: none; float: left; position: relative; clear: both; color: rgb(0, 0, 0); font-size: 12px; width: 767.9000244140625px; left: 1%; font-family: Verdana, Geneva, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; text-align: justify; background-color: rgb(225, 225, 225);">11. If a free play is used in a specific wager whose outcome is a push or a tie, the free play is lost.</dd>

Capybara · 12-31-12, 09:18 PM

Nice one, Mike! You always have my back, ya right oyster! Happy New Year!

milwaukee mike · 12-31-12, 10:36 PM

Originally posted by Capybara

Nice one, Mike! You always have my back, ya right oyster! Happy New Year!

yeah sorry i was steering you wrong by suggesting +180 stuff, i forgot bookmaker doesn't let you do moneylines

Capybara · 01-01-13, 11:12 AM

Originally posted by milwaukee mike

if they allow you to do 3-team parlays with the freeplays (like sbr does), then take all 8 possible combinations on games that can't end in a push.

that way $800 of freeplays will turn into a GUARANTEED $580. not many places allow this.

if not, then do the MAXIMUM ALLOWED. IF THE MAX IS +200 THEN TAKE A BUNCH OF +160 TO +200 STUFF. it's far from "breaking even" to take a $100 freeplay, bet it on +200, and bet the other side at -220 at a different book (140 to win 63). that guarantees you either $60 or $63 out of the $100 freeplay (62% or so), much better than -110 stuff unless you plan on hitting 70% winners on -110 bets

Mike, how about the bolded part, there's nothing in Bookmaker's instructions about that... how would I know if they don't allow it? It's sounds like something they wouldn't allow, and I don't want to have my money disqualified later. But it doesn't specifically prohibit someone's beating the system that way.

yisman · 01-01-13, 11:17 AM

They do allow it.

Capybara · 01-01-13, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by yisman

They do allow it.

Thanks, Yisser, and Happy New Year! For the new year, you should resolve to get outside more! Haha, j/k bro!

But wait, are you sure they wouldn't put a black mark on me or something for "working their system," in the same way that counting cards isn't a crime but they'll still tell you to fukk off if you do it?