Are most bettors & poker players incapable of ever improving?

[daneblazer]

Are the majority of people who bet and play cards incapable of ever getting better no matter what they are taught or told? In order to improve, you need to have a degree of humility and be able to admit, "hey, I do this wrong."


i was watching a buddy play the other night when he got in a tough spot. He had queens on a very wet board against two players who rarely show aggression unless they have the goods. It didn't end well for him. I broke out the poker stove and showed him the odds of his play, why he was likely behind in that situation and why he needed to fold queens. So he was shown reasoning and math to back up why he should fold. At the end of it all he goes, "That's pretty cool, but I ain't ever fold queens there man." ...face palm.


Some people are a lost cause, are you one of them?

[Darkside Magick]

No! You are what you are!

[milwaukee mike]

i just yesterday talked with a buddy that always stays on 15 or 16 vs a dealer 7 on blackjack.

i told him he CAN'T do that, if they allow surrender then do that if you're too chicken to hit it.

but of course he will continue to stay, defying logic and reason, even though he's a pretty intelligent person.

[str]

A player has to want to improve or they will not.

Give me a novice willing to do whatever it takes to learn over the seasoned player who thinks there is no more to learn any day.

Once you think you have learned it all, in regards to anything, your done.

Nothing's easy.

[milwaukee mike]

it's the same with politics or anything else. i have tried to have conversations about world affairs, 9/11, etc with people i thought were intelligent and once they give me the old "how can you believe in those conspiracy theories" or "if you think our government would lie to us then why don't you move out of the country", then i know i'm talking to a brick wall.

a lot of people are afraid of learning they were wrong, i welcome it. it's the only way to truly learn something.

[Darkside Magick]

A player has to want to improve or they will not.

Give me a novice willing to do whatever it takes to learn over the seasoned player who thinks there is no more to learn any day.

Once you think you have learned it all, in regards to anything, your done.

Nothing's easy.

I will take Phil ivey over anybody who"trying" to improve

Even when you trying to improve it is a illusion.....either you have it or you dont

[Br0nxer]

i just yesterday talked with a buddy that always stays on 15 or 16 vs a dealer 7 on blackjack.

i told him he CAN'T do that, if they allow surrender then do that if you're too chicken to hit it.

but of course he will continue to stay, defying logic and reason, even though he's a pretty intelligent person.

asshole move

hate playing at tables with people that do that

then people say play however you want. its your money

fukk that. you want to play like a scared pussy you fukk everyone else at the table over.

[k13]

I will take Phil ivey over anybody who"trying" to improve

Even when you trying to improve it is a illusion.....either you have it or you dont

Give me 10-1 on a blind person vs Phil Ivey.

[hels]

I know that over time I have become a better poker player and sports capper. I only became better when the thrill of winning was no longer the driving force. The feelings are difficult to explain but I realized the grind is the only way to win consistently.

Your friend and the QQ situation is classic. Preflop he feels like he deserves to win the hand and the pot is already his. He felt a thrill when he looked at his cards and saw QQ. He probably felt the guy who beat him got lucky because QQ was the best hand preflop.

Mike's friend sounds like a very conservative person. His fear of busting over 50% by taking another card is stronger than basic math fundamentals. He may also enjoy still being in the hand and get a thrill watching the dealer take cards and possibly busting.

[str]

I will take Phil ivey over anybody who"trying" to improve

Even when you trying to improve it is a illusion.....either you have it or you dont

Greg Merson is still trying to improve.

Seems to be working for him.

Also, I have no idea where you got the word " trying ' from. I said wanting. A big difference.

You posted my quote but the word trying is not in it.

C'mon man.

[crustyme]

i seem to always attract the assholes who hit with 15 when dealers face card is 6.

of course they always bust and dealer gets 20 or 21.

[lunchbawks]

Sports are almost impossible to beat, books don't lie when they say 99% are losers.. poker is easy lots of drunks and newbs at low stakes, still get donks at high stakes

[Smoke]

i seem to always attract the assholes who hit with 15 when dealers face card is 6.

of course they always bust and dealer gets 20 or 21.

[PAULYPOKER]

Are most bettors & poker players incapable of ever improving because they severely lack self discipline?

100% yes,

by nature all gamblers carry this self destructing personality,

only a very small percentage can realize and overcome this critical defect...............

[milwaukee mike]

great discussion guys.
one of those things people don't really think about, and yes over the long run it "shouldn't" matter how badly the other players play blackjack, but we all remember the times it costs us money when they make a bad play.

[BigDeem5]

Don't need to improve when you're all ready too good.

[pokernut9999]

Best thing I ever read was to write down every bet you make ......Go back and look over why you won and why you lost bets.


You will notice a trend and it is easy to correct.

[trytrytry]

Sports are almost impossible to beat, books don't lie when they say 99% are losers.. poker is easy lots of drunks and newbs at low stakes, still get donks at high stakes

my experience is much the opposite. in reality it should be possible to crush both but you need slow steady patience to grind at a poker table...

[trytrytry]

it's the same with politics or anything else. i have tried to have conversations about world affairs, 9/11, etc with people i thought were intelligent and once they give me the old "how can you believe in those conspiracy theories" or "if you think our government would lie to us then why don't you move out of the country", then i know i'm talking to a brick wall.

a lot of people are afraid of learning they were wrong, i welcome it. it's the only way to truly learn something.

everyone should read this book...http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...eacher_Told_Me

[dbear808]

Casinos get rich because people play "by the book". Tell me the last time you won money when you busted an individual hand. I'll bet you win many more times than that when the dealer must take a card and that card busts them. It is not about being scared to hit; the math says you are an underdog in that situation no matter what you do. It seems that being alive is more important than trying to get one of the few cards in the deck that will improve your hand. If anyone at the table is a critic of anyone's playing style, they should not be sitting at a $5 or $10 table; they should be at a high roller table where people play "by the book", where they add to the casino's bottom line and pay for all of the meals they comp to the losers at the smaller-staked tables who whine about always hitting 14 and getting a jack, but when they double on 10, they get the magic 4 they do not want.

[tto827]

everyone should read this book...http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...eacher_Told_Me

Had that assigned for summer reading a few years ago, one of the only assigned books I have ever enjoyed reading.

[tto827]

Casinos get rich because people play "by the book". Tell me the last time you won money when you busted an individual hand. I'll bet you win many more times than that when the dealer must take a card and that card busts them. It is not about being scared to hit; the math says you are an underdog in that situation no matter what you do. It seems that being alive is more important than trying to get one of the few cards in the deck that will improve your hand. If anyone at the table is a critic of anyone's playing style, they should not be sitting at a $5 or $10 table; they should be at a high roller table where people play "by the book", where they add to the casino's bottom line and pay for all of the meals they comp to the losers at the smaller-staked tables who whine about always hitting 14 and getting a jack, but when they double on 10, they get the magic 4 they do not want.

You cannot analyze blackjack strategy over one hand. IT IS ABOUT BEING SCARED TO HIT. People who play using basic blackjack strategy have more winning days then the dude out the who stands on a 14 against a 7, or splits anything against a face card.

[milwaukee mike]

everyone should read this book...http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/2...eacher_Told_Me

that is a great book, i have read it. i have always believed that history is a bunch of lies about things that didn't happen, told by people that weren't there. that's why they call it "his story" not "truth".

kind of like how the only thing politicians tell the truth about is what they are "poli" (many) "tics" (bloodsucking creatures)

[konck]

Most poker players dont understand its protecting winning that is very important.
Anyone can be lucky have a run and win but its keeping your bankroll that makes
you a player. For the most part poker players are weak and have limits where they
break down. You see it in tourny play all the time a person can play ok for a while they
they just break down.

[milwaukee mike]

Casinos get rich because people play "by the book". Tell me the last time you won money when you busted an individual hand. I'll bet you win many more times than that when the dealer must take a card and that card busts them. It is not about being scared to hit; the math says you are an underdog in that situation no matter what you do. It seems that being alive is more important than trying to get one of the few cards in the deck that will improve your hand. If anyone at the table is a critic of anyone's playing style, they should not be sitting at a $5 or $10 table; they should be at a high roller table where people play "by the book", where they add to the casino's bottom line and pay for all of the meals they comp to the losers at the smaller-staked tables who whine about always hitting 14 and getting a jack, but when they double on 10, they get the magic 4 they do not want.

no, in fact casinos get a lot richer when people play "not by the book". if i'm a casino why would i want a .5% house edge when some moron standing on 15s against a 7 is giving me a 3% house edge over the long run?

if you think it's so tough to hit a "magic card" as a player with 15 then please explain to me how the dealer is going to bust with a 7 when he needs two "magic cards" to do so in a row. a10jqk automatically beats you and 234 under the 7 beats you almost every time too.

[Sam Odom]

hate playing at tables with people that do that (stays on 15 or 16 vs a dealer 7)

then people say play however you want. its your money

fukk that.

Changes NOTHING for you in the long run - Long Run in this case can only be 3-4 hrs. Shitty plays even out

Believing that shitty plays will affect your BR in the long run is just as illogical as staying on 16 vs dealers 7

However , if shitty plays pisses you-off to the point of YOU making bad plays or bets then by all means leave the table

[thunderous]

asshole move

hate playing at tables with people that do that

then people say play however you want. its your money



fukk that. you want to play like a scared pussy you fukk everyone else at the table over.

I can't fuking stand that....specially when they give us "it's my money". And also hate when they surrender...why do u fuking play the game if u wanna surrender? Money down the drain if you surrender IMO

[Sam Odom]

also hate when they surrender...why do u fuking play the game if u wanna surrender? Money down the drain if you surrender IMO

Your (IMO) opinion is 100% wrong... Surrendering properly is +EV , at min is less -EV

[milwaukee mike]

Your (IMO) opinion is 100% wrong... Surrendering properly is +EV , at min is less -EV

if i'm not keeping a count i auto-surrender hard 15 and hard 16 vs 9 or 10

[Duff85]

Are the majority of people who bet and play cards incapable of ever getting better no matter what they are taught or told? In order to improve, you need to have a degree of humility and be able to admit, "hey, I do this wrong."


i was watching a buddy play the other night when he got in a tough spot. He had queens on a very wet board against two players who rarely show aggression unless they have the goods. It didn't end well for him. I broke out the poker stove and showed him the odds of his play, why he was likely behind in that situation and why he needed to fold queens. So he was shown reasoning and math to back up why he should fold. At the end of it all he goes, "That's pretty cool, but I ain't ever fold queens there man." ...face palm.


Some people are a lost cause, are you one of them?

Things like people believing that they can beat sports betting by picking winners. If their method does not involve any pricing of the event they are betting they are going to have to be lucky to be getting value. Yet people blindly believe they can pull it off and never investigate how they might stop losing.

People have also come onto SBR and talked about profitable strategies for betting, only to be laughed at by the sqaures who don't want to improve.

Poker wise just so many tards who think they are good and are crap. They would rather abuse players from the rail about their "donkey play" than actually think about what led to that specific hand. Fukk i'm not even good at poker and I can win.

[easyliving]

Sports betting you can always improve improve imo. I have been more and more selective with my bets and I see a huge improvement in my bankroll. As far as Poker its probably a no. The way a person plays poker even after seeing the odds is very difficult to change. People will always chase and even if they know they are beat as you showed in your example people will just simply not fold.

[hels]

Changes NOTHING for you in the long run - Long Run in this case can only be 3-4 hrs. Shitty plays even out

Believing that shitty plays will affect your BR in the long run is just as illogical as staying on 16 vs dealers 7

However , if shitty plays pisses you-off to the point of YOU making bad plays or bets then by all means leave the table

Blackjack players are some of the most superstitious in the casino.

[byronbb]

It is pretty amazing that people play and lose and do it over and over. Poker I can get sort of, but if you are one of many on this board who spends his soul handicapping and researching trends to only be a long-term loser you should really just do something else with your time and use a coin to pick your games.

[GunShard]

I learn from the mistake of other gamblers, as well as my own mistakes. I made the following rules, I posted this a few times on gambling forums to help others to also improve.

1. Bankroll money management. You should only be betting 1% to 10% of your total bankroll. Be discipline.
2. Be a strategic gambler by picking your spots and wait for the right opportunity. Never be a compulsive gambler by betting for the action, just because it feels good or it's your favorite team. Patience is virtue.
3. Stay emotionless all the time. Bet like a robot. There's no place for emotions in this profession.
4. Do your research by watching game footage, finding useful trends and useful statistics.
5. Never bet on heavily juiced lines. Like a line at -1000 for example.
6. Never bet on heavily valued lines. Like a terrible team at 100 to 1 odds to win championship.
7. Teams with home field/court advantage tend to win games.
"Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight;
whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War
8. Parlays should be no longer than 2 teams, the bigger the parlay is, the bigger the House Edge. Research and Secure your first pick before moving on to your second pick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89HtJmQgjww

9. Teasers should never pass through the zero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP3P9OJvukQ

10. Never bet on double digit road favorites. You will lose in the long run.
11. Always make your bet near game time. Players could get injured during the week before game time.
12. Sportsbook have an edge on the NFL than the NCAAF because they can focus on the 32 NFL teams but cannot focus on the hundreds of NCAAF teams.
13. Never deposit money for sportsbook bonus money that requires rollover. You are immediately juiced before you even placed your first bet.
14. Never bet on preseason games on any sport. Predicting a 2nd string and 3rd string team is stupid.
15. If you are extremely compulsive, arrogant and biased. The best advice is to "Don't Gamble".
16. Never gamble if you are drunk, sleepy, hungry, depressed or angry.
17. Moneyline favorites are more likely to win than Moneyline underdogs. Favorited lines are juiced because of this reason.
18. Learn from your mistakes. Most gamblers don't learn from their mistakes. That's why I made these gambling rules.

[PAULYPOKER]

I learn from the mistake of other gamblers,

Then SBR is the mother hub of this network...........