There is skill, HOWEVER among players that do know how to play, then it becomes mostly luck. There aren't a select few that know how to play so much better than everyone else. It's not that difficult. However, if you don't know how to play, luck is probably not gonna help you for very long.
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we should also distinguish between live poker and online.
yes there are online tells, but mostly it's piecing together betting patterns.
i play in a live wednesday tournament, and i have strong tells on almost everyone, so the skill factor comes a lot more into play for me in live poker. especially if it's against guys i know.Comment -
There is skill. Skill that I do not have.
They call me guppie and short stack.Comment -
I also like going all in on 2/7 offs.
Because when it hits, people get really mad.Comment -
Anyone who thinks it's all luck likely sucks at poker.
Anyone who thinks it's all skill is delusional.Comment -
im definitely in the poker swings r bigger camp then sports bets, of course there is skill at poker, it comes out over time.Comment -
Pros play mind games. I've sat down with Mizrachis and others..forgot names...and it's just the way they play. You find yourself overthinking shit and not going with your gut, kind of like sports betting cause your opponent is VEGAS.
Pro seriously are on another realm of skill. I don't mean pro wannabees but someone who has a documented earnings profile? Forget about it. Just play small ball poker and give em respectComment -
Study the game and you will realize that it's a game of skill until all players are equally skilled or no one at least has a skill advantage that can cover the rake. Those are the games you shouldn't be playing in for monetary reasons.Comment -
I second this especially live games with jackpot rakes during slow traffic weekday early evening times.
That said, if you consider yourself skilled there are often adjustments that can be made to exploit games with solid tight aggressive players. Generally their double and triple barrel calling ranges are way too narrow, soo you can take down alot of small-mid pots by constantly applying pressure. Of course good players adjust and there is alot of variance when you are playing lots of pots trying to overpower TAG opponents.
Usually better to pass on tough games and wait for loose wild types who will pay off your big hands. But I will frequently sit and play a tough game hard and fast and leave after an hour or two of bullying.
It cannot be overemphasized enough that every hand and game is soo opponent dependent. By observing their ranges and playing style, you can usually envision a winning play that is +EV long term based on exploiting their unique tendencies.Comment -
People have zero understanding that the skill in poker, like sports betting is about getting value long term and winning them Sklansky Dollars. Of course your average SBR Tard looks at KK like he looks at Tom Brady's Patriots or the New York Yankees in sports betting. "Never should the favourite lose". Uhh yeah spastic sometimes you do lose.Comment -
You hit the nail on the head, OP. That is why there are sponsors.Comment -
Bad players get sponsored as well. Many of the red pros at Fulltilt were laughable compared to the lesser known internet pros.
As far as cash games go, I would try to climb the stakes fast. Here in Miami it usually cost roughly $200 an hour in table rake/jackpot ($7 a hand max) whether you are playing 2-5 or 25-50. The relative rake has a less adverse effect at the higher limits and 1 or 2 rich spewers can fuel the entire game.
Table selection and bum hunting save soo much time, guys will grind dead games as though they are making significant money by sitting there. What a waste when 1 lucrative table session can make 40 hours of grinding look feeble.Comment -
yes u got know when to hold them when to fold them and also mix ur play up with few bluffsComment -
I definitely agree with you about more skill required for live play. Tougher to play live when you don't have 10k+ hands stored online in pokertracker on your opponent's tendencies. There is more information to process live, mainly tells, and more variables to consider in your opponents mannerisms/patterns. I think the availibilty of reads and the fact the players are generally less skilled, makes the live games have a bigger profitabilty edge per hand played.
Online you can databank a significant sample size with pokertracker that allows you to make optimal mathematical plays with little uncertainty. You can visualize an opponent's range based on their past %'s as well as the likelihood they will fold to pressure. But the players tend to be slightly less exploitable soo the profit margins are tighter. I compensate for the tighter margins with added volume of hands and tables per hour on line.Comment -
there is no skill...gambling gods control everything...we just sit there being controlled like puppets for their amusement...always pray to and speak kindly about them
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Poker is a skill game. Multi tabling the low stakes is free money
Learn PLO, its great fun and most people don't know how to playComment -
Way less swings in poker than sports betting. When I did not have much money played a ton of poker and made good money with a super low bankroll, in sports that is much harderComment -
65% skill, 35% luck. Though, tournaments and cash games are different beasts. Tournaments=discipline/picking your spots/aggressiveness vs. Cash games=splashing around/solid post flop play/utilizing position. Either way, the skillful players will win more over the long haul.Comment -
poker is less swings and less outs if you play poker your basically putting down your whole bankroll at one time. At least in sports you can spread it around in multiple games. There is a lot of luck in poker but there is also a lot of variance but no one thinks of variance when they lose aces vs 7 2 at the moment in time. Sports betting at least is better to the fact that you can sit down at a poker table with a grand and lose it in your first hand and then what. In sports if your at least betting a full game you get their adernaline for what 2 to 3 hours.Comment -
Yes, I agree that skill wins out over time.
Against quality players it's not as straightforward. There is more Sklansky leveling that goes on with floating and semi-bluffing now more than ever. Limit, I would say is straightforward, but no-limit has so many nuances and complexities.Comment -
This newly acquired knowledge can be very expensive to acquire. Use it to your advantage.
For me if I apply it to slots. If it eats $100 to $300 every time I play several times a month, I can continue to play the rest of my life if my income allows for the expense. An alternative would be for me to buy a $50 video game which is a hell of a lot cheaper.
We have choices to make in life. We see the juice charged for live poker. Is it worth the entertainment.Comment
Right there with ya.
