Need help understanding sharp vs. square play

[newguy]

So I keep reading threads that talk about certain plays being sharp and certain plays being square. Before the game, can you tell me which plays are sharp and square? If a sharp play loses, does it become a square play after the game?

If I am on the square side of a game and I win, was I on the wrong side? On the other hand if I am on the sharp side of the game and I lose was I still on the right side? Does it look better to say you were on the sharp side regardless if the game lost because then you were sharp and no one likes to be square?

I know there are a lot of sharps on here, so input is appreciated...........

[dj_destroyer]

Stupid post.

Joe Public wins just like everyone else, but you will lose if you continuously make square bets.

[TheMoneyShot]

Stupid post.

Joe Public wins just like everyone else, but you will lose if you continuously make square bets.

It's not a stupid question. Most of the posters on here don't even know the true meaning... and they continue to post in other threads acting like they know what they're talking about it.

Basically... Square means you don't think outside the box. You constantly take the same underdog over and over again... or you're a favorite player who constantly takes the favorite... You are considered a square.

A Sharp is a gambler who is precise... and accurate... basically wins all the time... and in this forum... no one is a sharp.

Typically Joe Public is any side that the PUBLIC is on heavily... it can be an Underdog or Favorite... but you typically want to fade the public in certain situations.

[milwaukee mike]

there are perhaps 10 "sharp" plays on the board TOTAL in any given month

the rest of the plays people talk about as "sharp" on here are awfully close to 50%, just like the "square" plays that they deride

[borednaz]

Never playing a major chalk favorite unless chasing steam. Never taking a Favorite above -130, and almost always on a Under or a Dog. That is what most people consider sharp. To me the only real sharp action is planning for variance and finding weak markets. You can be profitable at 60% if your bet sizes & chalk stay the same.

But for people to keep both of them the same takes a discipline a gambler does not have. The real deal comes with deciding before bet 1 what is it you must accomplish and forsaking everything else but accomplishing that goal.

[ramones951]

All that matters is picking winners

Don't waste your time with this 'square' and 'sharp' nonsense

[wantitall4moi]

Only way to define 'sharp' and 'square' the way most guys want to is to have a comparison. If you have two lines and one is -7 -110 and the other is -6.5 -110 on the same team then taking the -7 is 'square'. Because it is a worse number at the same odds. Some people will try to 'value' the half point and say that -7 +100 is 'better' than -6.5 -110. Or that -6.5 -120 is 'better' than -7 -110, but they dont know for sure it is just guess work.

But basically it is all about price and odds.

Some people will also try and say one team or side of a bet is 'square' or 'sharp', again that is total conjecture. Because there are always urban legends and conspiracy theories abounding when a so called 'sharp' play loses. My favorite was 'they bet that side to throw people off but hammered the other side for their 'real' bet. SUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE they did.

There is really no such thing as a sharp. You can be square though. But the closest thing to being sharp is being educated and experienced and knowing certain signs and tell tale issues that will help you recognize whether something may or may not happen and to take advantage of it at the best possible time. Some people say just winning makes you 'sharp'. Which isnt the case. If you do win but are constantly getting 5 or 6 cents worse than the next guy then he is 'sharp'(smarter more educated) and you are just good enough to pick winners. But he will make more money than you even if you play the same exact games. So while you both have the ability to recognize a winner he goes beyond your ability and is constantly getting the best price for that winner.

[Chimneyfish]

Just use the SBR adaptation of the word- square (n.): a person who disagrees with you

[v1y]

If you bet a -600 ML in nfl, it's probably square.

[MickeyMan]

Ask bigbill, he knows

[BigDeem5]

These idiots on the forum believe this, a) Square - Public side %%% wise
b) Sharp - Fading the public

[Kaabee]

outcome doesn't matter. if you are getting 10-1 on a coin flip and you lose, was it square? of course not.

[JohnGalt2341]

I'm sure many people will disagree with me about this but the way I always looked at it is if you Beat the Closing Line by a considerable amount then your bet is probably Sharp. If the closing line is considerably better than the price you got then your bet is probably Square.

Getting away from sports... here's another way to look at it. Let's say I have a 6 sided Die... And I tell you that you can bet that it will land on either 1 or 2, OR you can bet that it will land on either 3, 4, 5, or 6. The price is -110 for either bet. If you bet on 1, or 2 you have a 33.3% chance of winning. If you bet 3, 4, 5, or 6 you have a 66.6% chance of winning. Assuming that the Die is not rigged the Sharp bet is to bet on 3, 4, 5, or 6 every single time. Even if you roll a 1 or a 2 six out of your first ten rolls it's still a Square bet.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

when it's all said and done, the right side is the winning side...

also to answer your question, sharp side is usually what the wiseguys are on and usually they are on the dogs but not always...

[BuddyBear]

The word sharp and its derivatives (e.g. sharp side, sharp play, sharp bet, sharp move, sharp money, sharp line, sharp guy, sharp gambler, etc...) is badly overused and no longer has any real meaning.

In reality, there is no sharp side or square side or right side or wrong side, but rather a right price. If you beat the closing line, you'll be okay in the long run.

For me personally, the term square means, more or less, a gambler who plays overwhelming favorites and overs and high money lines, parlays, teasers, and other exotic type of bets irrespective of the price. A guy who bets every Sunday night game and every MNF game and is overly concerned/obsessed with watching the games on television or keeping up with them on his smartphone. Also, this guy relies on real poor stats in handicapping: Who the public is on, what teams have done in this matchup the past 10 years, last night's performances, dinosaur statistics in baseball (e.g. W/L, ERA, etc...), a guy who goes with his gut more than anything, etc...

Sharp would be just someone who consistently beats the closing line.

[tony_come]

Sharp vs square

the winner is? The house

book it!

[gayboys]

no such thing as a fukkin sharp play.

[wantitall4moi]

people falling into the neuvo forum speak of beating the closing number. That has almost zero impact on whether you are 'right' or 'wrong'. The closing number isnt even the best available most of the time. But it is the new standard for people who want to sound smart to come out with new stuff all the time as ways to win. This beating the closing number is the new thing these days.

Just because you beat a closer doesnt mean youre going to win, despite what everyone wants to think. I ran the numbers, and I posted them here and at EoG. Getting even the BEST available number isnt going to give you a positive expectation beyond maybe 4.5%. Its something like 200 sides in 4500 or so total games since 1996 where even getting the very best odds (discounting vig) will turn a loser into a push or a win. Thats for both favs and dogs. Some of those results are obviously going to be common games, but I am not going to repost something I have already posted. But in terms of actual individual games it is something like 147 or so. So in reality its more like 3.25%. Just looking at generic closers it drops it to below 4 and 3 respectively. Thats also EVERY game. So results will vary obviously.

Worrying about this garbage is forum fodder. Learn to pick winners and worry about the lines after you can do that consistently. If you cant pick 50% without a spread then how can you hope to beat a game that has one? And dont say 'dogs get point'. Because dogs 'cover' (lose but not by enough) roughly 25% of the time. So if youre picking dogs and they dont win SU then youre going be going 1 for 4 most of the time.

[BuddyBear]

people falling into the neuvo forum speak of beating the closing number. That has almost zero impact on whether you are 'right' or 'wrong'. The closing number isnt even the best available most of the time. But it is the new standard for people who want to sound smart to come out with new stuff all the time as ways to win. This beating the closing number is the new thing these days.

Just because you beat a closer doesnt mean youre going to win, despite what everyone wants to think. I ran the numbers, and I posted them here and at EoG. Getting even the BEST available number isnt going to give you a positive expectation beyond maybe 4.5%. Its something like 200 sides in 4500 or so total games since 1996 where even getting the very best odds (discounting vig) will turn a loser into a push or a win. Thats for both favs and dogs. Some of those results are obviously going to be common games, but I am not going to repost something I have already posted. But in terms of actual individual games it is something like 147 or so. So in reality its more like 3.25%. Just looking at generic closers it drops it to below 4 and 3 respectively. Thats also EVERY game. So results will vary obviously.

Worrying about this garbage is forum fodder. Learn to pick winners and worry about the lines after you can do that consistently. If you cant pick 50% without a spread then how can you hope to beat a game that has one? And dont say 'dogs get point'. Because dogs 'cover' (lose but not by enough) roughly 25% of the time. So if youre picking dogs and they dont win SU then youre going be going 1 for 4 most of the time.

So what do you propose then, we bet +6 when +7 was available. So what your saying is it makes no difference whether you take +6 or +7 in a game? if beating the closing line does not increase your probability of winning (i.e. being a long-term successful gambler), then sports betting is absolutely 100% random.

[k13]

So what do you propose then, we bet +6 when +7 was available. So what your saying is it makes no difference whether you take +6 or +7 in a game? if beating the closing line does not increase your probability of winning (i.e. being a long-term successful gambler), then sports betting is absolutely 100% random.

No, he is saying beating every closing number won't be enough of a difference to make you a big winner.

[BuddyBear]

No, he is saying beating every closing number won't be enough of a difference to make you a big winner.

It increases your probability of winning. Otherwise, if you do not beat the closing number, it makes no difference whether you take -7, -7.5, -9. It does matter, in the long run.

Maybe I am missing something, but what would be the point of handicapping games if the number you take does not matter?

[GamblerSpirit]

sharp = winning bet
square = losing bet

That's it. Don't believe the hype of squares and sharp players. Those who call themselves sharp are NOT sharp. There's no such a thing as a sharp or square bettor, only winners and losers after the fact.

[jjgold]

Only way to define 'sharp' and 'square' the way most guys want to is to have a comparison. If you have two lines and one is -7 -110 and the other is -6.5 -110 on the same team then taking the -7 is 'square'. Because it is a worse number at the same odds. Some people will try to 'value' the half point and say that -7 +100 is 'better' than -6.5 -110. Or that -6.5 -120 is 'better' than -7 -110, but they dont know for sure it is just guess work.

But basically it is all about price and odds.

Some people will also try and say one team or side of a bet is 'square' or 'sharp', again that is total conjecture. Because there are always urban legends and conspiracy theories abounding when a so called 'sharp' play loses. My favorite was 'they bet that side to throw people off but hammered the other side for their 'real' bet. SUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE they did.

There is really no such thing as a sharp. You can be square though. But the closest thing to being sharp is being educated and experienced and knowing certain signs and tell tale issues that will help you recognize whether something may or may not happen and to take advantage of it at the best possible time. Some people say just winning makes you 'sharp'. Which isnt the case. If you do win but are constantly getting 5 or 6 cents worse than the next guy then he is 'sharp'(smarter more educated) and you are just good enough to pick winners. But he will make more money than you even if you play the same exact games. So while you both have the ability to recognize a winner he goes beyond your ability and is constantly getting the best price for that winner.

End of thread..perfect answer

[Kaabee]

sharp = winning bet
square = losing bet

That's it. Don't believe the hype of squares and sharp players. Those who call themselves sharp are NOT sharp. There's no such a thing as a sharp or square bettor, only winners and losers after the fact.

so if you are getting 10-1 on a coin flip, each time you lose it, it was square, and each time you win it, it was sharp?

[coop]

sharp = winning bet
square = losing bet

That's it. Don't believe the hype of squares and sharp players. Those who call themselves sharp are NOT sharp. There's no such a thing as a sharp or square bettor, only winners and losers after the fact.

Being results oriented is square. IMO, there is a right side and a wrong side, not a winning and a losing side. the right side and winning/the wrong side and losing don't always go hand in hand.

If you bet a +500 ML dog and they lose in heartbreaking fashion on some fluke BS.....that was a square bet?

If you bet a -500 ML fav and they barely squeak out a win....that was a sharp bet?

[lakerboy]

Square- Brady and pats always win
Sharp- thinks of different outcomes then what everyone expects

[Monitor-Tan]

square = just looks everything on paper and when everything looks good on paper he plays it.
sharp = looks for different angle that's not on paper and then has a # and will bet a good # or lay off.

[ChuckWins]

If you bet a -600 ML in nfl, it's probably square.

Thats a sharp play for Brock Landers! 99% of his plays are juiced more than Barry Bonds!

[GunShard]

Sharp: Fade the public.
Square: Follow the public.

My personal rules on sports gambling:

1. Bankroll money management and Kelly Criterion. You should only be betting 1% to 10% of your total bankroll. Be discipline.
Kelly Criterion basically says to bet large on -110 and bet small on -500, and bet large on a straight bet, bet small on a parlay bet.
2. Do your research by watching game footage, finding useful trends and useful statistics.
3. Never bet on heavily juiced lines. Like a line at -1000 for example.
4. Never bet on heavily valued lines. Like a terrible team at 100 to 1 odds to win championship.
5. Teams with home field/court advantage tend to win games.
"Whoever is first in the field and awaits the coming of the enemy, will be fresh for the fight;
whoever is second in the field and has to hasten to battle will arrive exhausted." -Sun Tzu, the Art of War
6. Be a strategic gambler by picking your spots and wait for the right opportunity. Never be an compulsive gambler by betting for the action, just because it feels good or it's your favorite team. Patience is virtue.
7. Stay emotionless all the time. Bet like a robot. There's no place for emotions in this profession.
8. Parlays should be no longer than 2 teams, the bigger the parlay is, the bigger the House Edge. Research and Secure your first pick before moving on to your second pick.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89HtJmQgjww

9. Teasers should never pass through the zero.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP3P9OJvukQ

10. Never bet on double digit road favorites. You will lose in the long run.
11. Always make your bet near game time. Players could get injured during the week before game time.
12. Sportsbook have an edge on the NFL than the NCAAF because they can focus on the 32 NFL teams but cannot focus on the hundreds of NCAAF teams.
13. Never deposit money for sportsbook bonus money that requires rollover. You are immediately juiced before you even placed your first bet.
14. Never bet on preseason games on any sport. Predicting a 2nd string and 3rd string team is stupid.
15. If you are extremely compulsive, arrogant and biased. The best advice is to "Don't Gamble".
16. Never gamble if you are drunk, sleepy, hungry, depressed or angry.
17. Moneyline favorites are more likely to win than Moneyline underdogs. Favorited lines are juiced because of this reason.
18. Learn from your mistakes. Most gamblers don't learn from their mistakes. That's why I made these gambling rules.

[Ghenghis Kahn]

gunshard, you sure have a lot to say for a guy that bets -850 favorites...

[ChalkyDog]

Sharp = winning side
Square = losing side

You don't realize what you are until the game is over.

At least, that is how it works on this forum.

If you are asking for a universal understanding of those terms, my above definitions are only partly correct.

[pulledclear]

These idiots on the forum believe this, a) Square - Public side %%% wise
b) Sharp - Fading the public

And the hits just keep on coming....

[The Seer]

It's not a stupid question. Most of the posters on here don't even know the true meaning... and they continue to post in other threads acting like they know what they're talking about it.

Basically... Square means you don't think outside the box. You constantly take the same underdog over and over again... or you're a favorite player who constantly takes the favorite... You are considered a square.

A Sharp is a gambler who is precise... and accurate... basically wins all the time... and in this forum... no one is a sharp.

Typically Joe Public is any side that the PUBLIC is on heavily... it can be an Underdog or Favorite... but you typically want to fade the public in certain situations.

not true, most would be tickled with any % in the high 50s and that is nowhere near all the time

[The Seer]

Only way to define 'sharp' and 'square' the way most guys want to is to have a comparison. If you have two lines and one is -7 -110 and the other is -6.5 -110 on the same team then taking the -7 is 'square'. Because it is a worse number at the same odds. Some people will try to 'value' the half point and say that -7 +100 is 'better' than -6.5 -110. Or that -6.5 -120 is 'better' than -7 -110, but they dont know for sure it is just guess work.

But basically it is all about price and odds.

Some people will also try and say one team or side of a bet is 'square' or 'sharp', again that is total conjecture. Because there are always urban legends and conspiracy theories abounding when a so called 'sharp' play loses. My favorite was 'they bet that side to throw people off but hammered the other side for their 'real' bet. SUUUUUUUUUUUUURRRRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEE they did.

There is really no such thing as a sharp. You can be square though. But the closest thing to being sharp is being educated and experienced and knowing certain signs and tell tale issues that will help you recognize whether something may or may not happen and to take advantage of it at the best possible time. Some people say just winning makes you 'sharp'. Which isnt the case. If you do win but are constantly getting 5 or 6 cents worse than the next guy then he is 'sharp'(smarter more educated) and you are just good enough to pick winners. But he will make more money than you even if you play the same exact games. So while you both have the ability to recognize a winner he goes beyond your ability and is constantly getting the best price for that winner.

good answer

[manny24]

new guy your ghost is a fukkin jerkoff...i like you though.