LTA's NBA Plays

Collapse
X
 
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • jas19illini
    SBR Wise Guy
    • 10-27-10
    • 682

    #1436
    Originally posted by Love The Action
    I do not believe your example constitutes reverse line movement. The generally accepted definition of reverse line movement requires three things: (1) a betting volume which exceeds 10,000 wagers in the NFL or 3,000-7,000 in the NBA; (2) 65% or more of all wagers on one side (i.e. the "public side"); and (3) a line move of 1 point or more against that "public" side. Your example only has about 52% on the under and would not qualify.

    Generally, the same people that blindly tail RLM are the same types who think that the only way to profit is to "fade the public." I don't agree. I feel that the only way to be profitable is getting the best numbers possible, creating value between your number and closing number and by staying one step ahead of the market. Personally, I view RLM as one tool of many to use in your capping arsenal and not as the sole reason to make a play. In addition, you need to know the difference between true RLM versus false RLM. By true RLM, I mean RLM that is triggered by "sharp" or "sydicate" money as opposed to "big" money or just whales who don't do their homework but who have huge BR's to throw around. The problem is that you never really know for sure because the books do not release the amount of money on any wager, only the total amount of wagers. Therefore, you need to develop the ability to know a sharp move from move instigated by money alone.

    Regardless, the true key is being ahead of the RLM and jumping on a steam play before the steam. The problem with following RLM is that you are invariably reactive to the line movement instead of proactive and getting on the valuable number before the value is sucked out by the sharp steam. What ends up happening is that RLM is nothing but a 50/50 proposition if you follow it long term because you are constantly betting into stale numbers.

    For example, if the Bulls are set at +13 with 80% of 10,000 wagers placed on the Bulls, yet all of a sudden the line drops to +10, a guy who follows RLM will jump on that +10 and miss out on all of the value in the original number. Consequently, the RLM junkie who jumped on the bad number at +10 will lose, while the sharp money or syndicate money that caused the steam cashes their tickets at +12 or +13 when the Bulls win by 11.

    When you are constantly following RLM and playing into stale numbers, you will end up losing long term because of the vig. What you need to do is start predicting when the RLM will occur. Track RLM plays and learn betting patters of the syndicates by comparing what common denominators exist between a large sample of RLM plays. Once you can identify those factors which are causing the RLM, you will able to get on the valuable number before the RLM hits and stay one step ahead.

    Remember, if you don't stay ahead of the market, you cannot succeed. Unless the closing line is the best number you can get on a play, you need to start placing your wagers before the line movement hits each day around 10 am EST. You need to get the best number possible and beat the efficiency of the closing number on a consistent basis in order to ensure yourself profitability. In order to do that, you cannot blindly tail RLM. And if you don't believe me, take if from Pinnacle:



    I like to use RLM as something to determine the AMOUNT of my wager on a play, as opposed to a determining factor in the play itself.

    Maybe it's just late, but im having a tiny trouble wrapping my head around this. If 80% of the wagers were on the Bulls at +13, wouldnt it be NORMAL for the line to move towards +10 rather than being considered RLM? Feel free to call me dumb. Lol.
    Comment
    • inn_keeper
      SBR High Roller
      • 12-30-11
      • 130

      #1437
      Originally posted by Love The Action
      I do not believe your example constitutes reverse line movement. The generally accepted definition ........... as opposed to a determining factor in the play itself.

      Start a blog and put these type of explanations up once a week.
      Comment
      • SlickRick1382
        SBR MVP
        • 10-15-11
        • 3838

        #1438
        Originally posted by inn_keeper
        Start a blog and put these type of explanations up once a week.
        In process !!!
        Last edited by SlickRick1382; 01-12-12, 12:59 AM.
        Comment
        • Love The Action
          SBR Posting Legend
          • 11-08-10
          • 10952

          #1439
          NBA 2011-2012 Regular Season 1/11/2012 Recap

          2 - 1 = +0.9x

          NBA 2011-2012 Season

          31 - 21 = +9.25x

          We just keep grinding. Time to start working on the rest of Thursday's card....
          Comment
          • GChild
            SBR MVP
            • 12-11-10
            • 3885

            #1440
            We are do for a sweep
            Comment
            • Love The Action
              SBR Posting Legend
              • 11-08-10
              • 10952

              #1441
              Originally posted by jas19illini
              Maybe it's just late, but im having a tiny trouble wrapping my head around this. If 80% of the wagers were on the Bulls at +13, wouldnt it be NORMAL for the line to move towards +10 rather than being considered RLM? Feel free to call me dumb. Lol.
              It should have read "Wizards" were +13...that was just a typo. I fixed it.

              This is how it should read:

              For example, if the Wizards are set at +13 with 80% of 10,000 wagers placed on the Bulls, yet all of a sudden the line drops to +10, a guy who follows RLM will jump on that +10 and miss out on all of the value in the original number. Consequently, the RLM junkie who jumped on the bad number at +10 will lose, while the sharp money or syndicate money that caused the steam cashes their tickets on the Wizards at +12 or +13 when the Bulls win by 11.
              Comment
              • jas19illini
                SBR Wise Guy
                • 10-27-10
                • 682

                #1442
                Originally posted by Love The Action
                It should have read "Wizards" were +13...that was just a typo. I fixed it.

                This is how it should read:
                Ahhhhh, thank you! Man i was sitting here racking my brain trying to understand how your explanation was feasible. Now it makes perfect sense after the typo correction. Thanks.
                Comment
                • MrXYZ
                  SBR MVP
                  • 02-18-11
                  • 2342

                  #1443
                  Like the Detroit/Mil under play, I'm on it for 1x. However it's shaping up as another blowout & we could be sweating this one out in the 4th quarter if the hot shooting from the Bucks does continue. I'm hoping we can sit back & cash this one with an 88-75 type scoreline.

                  As the average bettor tends to have a bias towards pounding overs set below 180, it'll be interesting to see if the line gets pushed up or the sharps get it to 175 as expected by LTA.

                  Good luck on a breakout day.
                  Comment
                  • NYSportsGuy210
                    SBR Posting Legend
                    • 11-07-09
                    • 11347

                    #1444
                    Any thoughts on Bobcats vs. Hawks for today (1/12/12)?

                    I am leaning UNDER 184 total points....thoughts?
                    Comment
                    • shari91
                      BARRELED IN @ SBR!
                      • 02-23-10
                      • 32661

                      #1445
                      Please stop reporting the Love That Action account. It has already been dealt with. Thank you.
                      Comment
                      • Love The Action
                        SBR Posting Legend
                        • 11-08-10
                        • 10952

                        #1446
                        Originally posted by shari91
                        Please stop reporting the Love That Action account. It has already been dealt with. Thank you.
                        Thanks Shari
                        Comment
                        • Trivial
                          SBR MVP
                          • 11-22-09
                          • 1328

                          #1447
                          Originally posted by shari91
                          Please stop reporting the Love That Action account. It has already been dealt with. Thank you.
                          That is great news. Thank you very much Shari.

                          Comment
                          • jas19illini
                            SBR Wise Guy
                            • 10-27-10
                            • 682

                            #1448
                            LTA is always promoting bball discussion on this thread, so I have a topic for everyone. What stats, or advanced stats, do you guys find most important when capping NBA games (sides and totals)? It would also be helpful to people like myself who are just starting to learn how to cap NBA games if you could give a sentence or two about WHY you think a particular stat is important in capping, or why a particular stat is better than another. Looking forward to a good discussion.

                            (LTA, if you think this is in any way hijacking your thread then ill remove this post.)
                            Comment
                            • NB-Ace
                              SBR High Roller
                              • 12-26-11
                              • 115

                              #1449
                              Originally posted by jas19illini
                              LTA is always promoting bball discussion on this thread, so I have a topic for everyone. What stats, or advanced stats, do you guys find most important when capping NBA games (sides and totals)? It would also be helpful to people like myself who are just starting to learn how to cap NBA games if you could give a sentence or two about WHY you think a particular stat is important in capping, or why a particular stat is better than another. Looking forward to a good discussion.

                              (LTA, if you think this is in any way hijacking your thread then ill remove this post.)
                              ^I would love LTA's thoughts on this topic as well. As of late I've been experimenting with the numbers on Hoopdata.com to see what I can come up with. I'm not sure how useful this method is over a large sample, but I've been breaking down games as follows:

                              - Team A "pace" + Team B "pace" ÷ 2 = "expected pace"

                              - Team A "offensive efficiency" + Team B "defensive efficiency" ÷ 2, then ÷ 100 x "expected pace"

                              - Team B "offensive efficiency" + Team A "defensive efficiency" ÷ 2, then ÷ 100 x "expected pace"

                              ^I realize this is a very rough method that ignores more than a few variables, but it's yielded some interesting results so far. This method is convenient too as it only takes 2-3 mins to "analyze" a game.


                              I took it one step further for the 76ers/Pacers game the other night. Hoopdata tracks percentages and volume (both offensively and defensively) for shots at the rim, shots between 5-9 feet from the basket, 10-15 feet, etc. etc. So I performed an analysis with those components in the same manner as I did above, factored in average team FT% and volume, then got a projected point total that way as well. Here were the results:


                              FIRST METHOD (rough estimate):

                              94.2 Pace

                              76ers = 95.4

                              Pacers = 90.2


                              (185.6 predicted, 183.5 Vegas)


                              SECOND METHOD (shot chart avg's/finer method):

                              At Rim:

                              76ers: 66.4% for 25.5 pts
                              Pacers: 56.6% for 27.3 pts

                              3-9 Feet:

                              76ers: 44.5% for 10.9 pts
                              Pacers: 40.3% for 10.6 pts

                              10-15 Feet:

                              76ers: 36.7% for 8.7 pts
                              Pacers: 34.7% for 5.8 pts

                              16-23 Feet:

                              76ers: 34.8% for 15.5 pts
                              Pacers: 28.4% for 10.7 pts

                              Three Point:

                              76ers: 35.7% for 18.4 pts
                              Pacers: 35.8% for 16.9 pts


                              Total Composite Analysis:

                              76ers: 79 pts (+19.9 FT pts) = 98.9 pts
                              Pacers: 71.3 pts (+22.5 FT pts) = 93.8 pts

                              (192.7 alt total)



                              FWIW, the actual score of the game was 96-86, 76ers. So, in this particular example Method 1 did a better job capping the game, although I'm not sure if there's any rhyme or reason to that other than small sample-size variance. I'd love to get everyone's thoughts on this.
                              Comment
                              • Love The Action
                                SBR Posting Legend
                                • 11-08-10
                                • 10952

                                #1450
                                I look forward to the discussion.

                                I will not provide any specifics as to how I use APBRmetrics, but I will say that most of the quantitative factors I use in my model can be found at the following sites:

                                NBA stats that can't be found out elsewhere! Basketball analytics glossary and NBA stats tables are being used by many who want simplified analysis.

                                Checkout the statistics, scores & history of every team & NBA and WNBA players and more on Basketball-Reference.com

                                The #1 site for objective sports predictions, rankings, and stats. Offers picks, odds and tools for NFL, NBA, MLB, college football and college basketball.

                                82games.com is a pioneering site covering the NBA from an analytical persepctive. Founded by a championship winning NBA stats coach and front office executive.


                                I also highly recommend the book "Basketball on Paper" for those interested in learning more about advanced basketball metrics. It is the "Moneyball" for basketball.

                                Off to work. Good luck on everyone's plays.
                                Comment
                                • upscope
                                  SBR MVP
                                  • 04-26-11
                                  • 2837

                                  #1451
                                  Damn...Love "That" Action went 2-0 last night

                                  Comment
                                  • jas19illini
                                    SBR Wise Guy
                                    • 10-27-10
                                    • 682

                                    #1452
                                    What are people's thoughts on using % stats vs attempts? For example free throw % vs free throw attempts.
                                    Comment
                                    • Love The Action
                                      SBR Posting Legend
                                      • 11-08-10
                                      • 10952

                                      #1453
                                      Originally posted by upscope
                                      Damn...Love "That" Action went 2-0 last night

                                      Sammy!
                                      Comment
                                      • Love The Action
                                        SBR Posting Legend
                                        • 11-08-10
                                        • 10952

                                        #1454
                                        Originally posted by Love The Action
                                        NBA 2011-2012 Regular Season 1/12/2012

                                        Play #1

                                        Pistons/Bucks under (177.5) 1x (Locked)

                                        I am jumping on this one now as I expect this one to drop to 176 by Thursday morning and a closing number around 175. We have both team suffering from depth problems due to injury with Stuckey downgraded to doubtful for Detroit and Villanueva questionable, while the Bucks will be without Dunleavy and Moute, with Udrih upgraded to questionable. Without Stuckey, the Pistons don't have any scoring threats, especially with Ben Gordon playing like a shell of his former self. On the other hand, the Bucks do have Bogut back, but I think that actually helps our under play as the Bucks will slow down their recent fast pace and play a more half court oriented game. Detroit ranks at or near the bottom of the league in all of the major advanced statistical categories such as OEFF, TS%,EFG%, etc., while the Bucks continue to rank at the top of the league in advanced defensive categories behind the defensive task master-like coach in Scott Skiles. I don't expect Detroit to play with a lot of energy because they are in a small fatigue spot playing their 3rd game in 4 nights, while the Bucks are rested and playing at home for the first time after a long road trip. Consequently, I expect maximum defensive effort, but a poor shooting game in this classic let down spot with the Bucks playing their first home game in awhile. Detroit has almost no chance to win, but Milwaukee has had two great shooting performances in a row against the Suns and Spurs and this team just can't sustain such a high percentage. I fully expect a regression tomorrow and a poor shooting performance from the Bucks as a team. Neither team will be looking to run tomorrow and I think we see a rather ugly game which will be won on the defensive end, most likely by the Bucks. I have this game set at 174 giving us a full 3 points of variance between my number and what the books are giving us at the moment and that is just too much value to pass up. Based on the foregoing, I am rolling with the under for 1x. Good luck.

                                        Play #2

                                        Magic/Warriors under (189) 1x (Locked)


                                        No time for an in-depth writeup. Magic have shot lights out two games in a row and I expect a regression against a hard working, rested, if not good warrior defense. The warriors offense has limited weapons with curry out and I don't think ellis and lee can do it alone against the magics top ten defense in DEFF. Howard is a beast inside and should be able to limit the opposing frontcourt. Both offenses are slow in the bottom 10 of PACE. This play is entirely dependent on team shooting and I expect a regression for both after their recent solid performances. I have this game set at 185.5 and I'm rolling with the value on the under for 1x. Good luck.
                                        Comment
                                        • NOREGRETS
                                          SBR MVP
                                          • 02-12-10
                                          • 1326

                                          #1455
                                          Thanks LTA. Gotta get a sweep tonight!!
                                          Comment
                                          • No coincidences
                                            SBR Aristocracy
                                            • 01-18-10
                                            • 76300

                                            #1456
                                            Originally posted by Love The Action

                                            Play #2

                                            Magic/Warriors under (189) 1x (Locked)


                                            No time for an in-depth writeup. Magic have shot lights out two games in a row and I expect a regression against a hard working, rested, if not good warrior defense. The warriors offense has limited weapons with curry out and I don't think ellis and lee can do it alone against the magics top ten defense in DEFF. Howard is a beast inside and should be able to limit the opposing frontcourt. Both offenses are slow in the bottom 10 of PACE. This play is entirely dependent on team shooting and I expect a regression for both after their recent solid performances. I have this game set at 185.5 and I'm rolling with the value on the under for 1x. Good luck.
                                            Already on it LTA. Good luck. I think we're getting it at a peak number too.
                                            Comment
                                            • BigBurk
                                              SBR MVP
                                              • 02-25-11
                                              • 3785

                                              #1457
                                              Lock this in earlier today at 188½ and I don't think it will get any higher than 189.
                                              Comment
                                              • NOREGRETS
                                                SBR MVP
                                                • 02-12-10
                                                • 1326

                                                #1458
                                                Magic under locked in earlier at 188.5. Number is currently sitting at 187
                                                Comment
                                                • TC Woods
                                                  SBR MVP
                                                  • 12-17-11
                                                  • 1780

                                                  #1459
                                                  Originally posted by Love The Action

                                                  Play #2

                                                  Magic/Warriors under (189) 1x (Locked)


                                                  No time for an in-depth writeup. Magic have shot lights out two games in a row and I expect a regression against a hard working, rested, if not good warrior defense. The warriors offense has limited weapons with curry out and I don't think ellis and lee can do it alone against the magics top ten defense in DEFF. Howard is a beast inside and should be able to limit the opposing frontcourt. Both offenses are slow in the bottom 10 of PACE. This play is entirely dependent on team shooting and I expect a regression for both after their recent solid performances. I have this game set at 185.5 and I'm rolling with the value on the under for 1x. Good luck.
                                                  Got in at 188.5, just checked it... it's at 187

                                                  Good call
                                                  Comment
                                                  • IXL
                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                    • 12-23-11
                                                    • 124

                                                    #1460
                                                    Thanks for the picks LTA!
                                                    Comment
                                                    • squid44
                                                      SBR Sharp
                                                      • 06-13-10
                                                      • 353

                                                      #1461
                                                      tailing you here on the under LTA! BOL to us !
                                                      Comment
                                                      • ShaisterInc
                                                        SBR Rookie
                                                        • 12-27-11
                                                        • 15

                                                        #1462
                                                        Thanks for the pick. BOL to all.
                                                        Comment
                                                        • Love The Action
                                                          SBR Posting Legend
                                                          • 11-08-10
                                                          • 10952

                                                          #1463
                                                          Originally posted by Love The Action
                                                          NBA 2011-2012 Regular Season 1/12/2012

                                                          Play #1

                                                          Pistons/Bucks under (177.5) 1x (Locked)

                                                          I am jumping on this one now as I expect this one to drop to 176 by Thursday morning and a closing number around 175. We have both team suffering from depth problems due to injury with Stuckey downgraded to doubtful for Detroit and Villanueva questionable, while the Bucks will be without Dunleavy and Moute, with Udrih upgraded to questionable. Without Stuckey, the Pistons don't have any scoring threats, especially with Ben Gordon playing like a shell of his former self. On the other hand, the Bucks do have Bogut back, but I think that actually helps our under play as the Bucks will slow down their recent fast pace and play a more half court oriented game. Detroit ranks at or near the bottom of the league in all of the major advanced statistical categories such as OEFF, TS%,EFG%, etc., while the Bucks continue to rank at the top of the league in advanced defensive categories behind the defensive task master-like coach in Scott Skiles. I don't expect Detroit to play with a lot of energy because they are in a small fatigue spot playing their 3rd game in 4 nights, while the Bucks are rested and playing at home for the first time after a long road trip. Consequently, I expect maximum defensive effort, but a poor shooting game in this classic let down spot with the Bucks playing their first home game in awhile. Detroit has almost no chance to win, but Milwaukee has had two great shooting performances in a row against the Suns and Spurs and this team just can't sustain such a high percentage. I fully expect a regression tomorrow and a poor shooting performance from the Bucks as a team. Neither team will be looking to run tomorrow and I think we see a rather ugly game which will be won on the defensive end, most likely by the Bucks. I have this game set at 174 giving us a full 3 points of variance between my number and what the books are giving us at the moment and that is just too much value to pass up. Based on the foregoing, I am rolling with the under for 1x. Good luck.

                                                          Play #2

                                                          Magic/Warriors under (189) 1x (Locked)


                                                          No time for an in-depth writeup. Magic have shot lights out two games in a row and I expect a regression against a hard working, rested, if not good warrior defense. The warriors offense has limited weapons with curry out and I don't think ellis and lee can do it alone against the magics top ten defense in DEFF. Howard is a beast inside and should be able to limit the opposing frontcourt. Both offenses are slow in the bottom 10 of PACE. This play is entirely dependent on team shooting and I expect a regression for both after their recent solid performances. I have this game set at 185.5 and I'm rolling with the value on the under for 1x. Good luck.

                                                          Play #3

                                                          Knicks/Grizzlies over (193) 1x (Locked)


                                                          We have two teams with top 10 PACE ratings, who have struggling defenses because of fatigue in the case of the knicks and injury in the case of memphis. Regardless, I think the books have overvalued the the under way too much in this spot as last season saw this matchup go over every game with totals set at least 10 points higher. This total is dropping as I hit the keys on my phone, but I think we see some buyback on the over resulting in a closer around 194. I have this game set at 197, so as soon as I saw 193 I had to jump on this play as I expect a very fast paced game. Based on the foregoing, I am rolling with the over for 1x. Good luck.
                                                          Comment
                                                          • SoxSide Irish
                                                            SBR High Roller
                                                            • 01-08-12
                                                            • 184

                                                            #1464
                                                            Just got it at 191.5 from my local
                                                            Comment
                                                            • Love The Action
                                                              SBR Posting Legend
                                                              • 11-08-10
                                                              • 10952

                                                              #1465
                                                              Tricky line movement in that knicks over as it went from 193 all the way up to 194.5, and then dropped back down to 193 and kept on going to 191.5 where it now sits.

                                                              That's not good so use your best judgment on this one. I really like the over, so I'm rolling with it full steam ahead. Might have one more play as well. Leaving work for home now....good luck tonight.
                                                              Comment
                                                              • Trivial
                                                                SBR MVP
                                                                • 11-22-09
                                                                • 1328

                                                                #1466
                                                                Originally posted by SoxSide Irish
                                                                Just got it at 191.5 from my local
                                                                Pinny is the same.
                                                                Comment
                                                                • mikea33
                                                                  SBR MVP
                                                                  • 11-14-11
                                                                  • 2149

                                                                  #1467
                                                                  Im sticking with the over LTA. let us know your later plays!
                                                                  Comment
                                                                  • SoxSide Irish
                                                                    SBR High Roller
                                                                    • 01-08-12
                                                                    • 184

                                                                    #1468
                                                                    Were due for an over...Feel good about this one
                                                                    Comment
                                                                    • FlaxMartin
                                                                      SBR MVP
                                                                      • 08-13-10
                                                                      • 2148

                                                                      #1469
                                                                      lets have a 3-0 sweep tonight!
                                                                      Comment
                                                                      • ManBearPig
                                                                        SBR MVP
                                                                        • 12-04-08
                                                                        • 2473

                                                                        #1470
                                                                        Well we actually agree on one play today... ORL/GS under, although you got a better line. I've been away and unable to track much today. I'm also looking at ATL/CHA over and PHO/CLE under. Hell the way things have gone you could blind bet the under and probably hit 3 of 5 today.

                                                                        The lines are starting to adjust so I wouldn't recommend it, but some of these teams the linesmakers can't go low enough.

                                                                        To the guy talking about predicting pace...Basketball on Paper is your bible also get familiar with not only pace and what makes it up, but off/def efficiency and also team/league averages (eg. pts scored/allowed home and away) I use some of Pomroy's ideas and methods for predicting efficiency and pace in one of my systems.

                                                                        Also, familiarize yourself with standard deviations and how you can use to find inefficiency's. I incorporated this concept into my model this year and have seen seen very consistent results, in fact my ATL/CHA over is based off this concept.
                                                                        Comment
                                                                        SBR Contests
                                                                        Collapse
                                                                        Top-Rated US Sportsbooks
                                                                        Collapse
                                                                        Working...