Lebron is an overrated defender

**freeVICK** · 04-14-10, 12:29 AM

i love battier's hand in the face thing. must annoy the fck out of some guys

**zogdog** · 04-14-10, 12:38 AM

LeBron does not deserve to be on 1st team defense unless we're talking about, "when they want to defend" only.

LeBron is right up there with anyone at defending the 1-3 and even the 4 position in the last 5 minutes of the games when his team needs a stop. Otherwise, he doesn't really care, which is fine, because the Cavs have won more games than any other team.

In the playoffs LeBron will show he's a very good defender because he will actually care for the whole game (at least in rounds 2, 3, Finals).

**S.K.M.** · 04-14-10, 02:46 AM

Williams where are you?

**SparJMU** · 04-14-10, 07:53 AM

You hit the nail on the head when you mentioned team defense. He may not be the best perimeter, 1 on 1 defender, but his team defense is stellar.

**kobefanatic** · 04-14-10, 08:01 AM

i can sense williams22 coming in soon

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 11:16 AM

Not much I disagree with in here. For the first 3 quarters of games he's an above average 1-on-1 defender and a great team defender. In the last quarter he becomes as good of a 1-on-1 defender as anyone.

I will say the reason many will say Wade and Kobe are better has to do with appearance a little. Kobe and Wade play right up on their men, usually with a hand on them anytime they have the ball. Lebron tends to play off his man and relies on his length and athleticism to close out on pull-up jumpers. Because of this, shooters play better against Lebron and drivers play better against Wade and Kobe. This is also the main reason Lebron has so few fouls per game, because he very rarely puts a hand on a guy on the perimeter and he keeps them from the rim.

I'm not saying one style is better or worse, but they are very different.

**PAULYPOKER** · 04-14-10, 11:19 AM

Why didn't just use the title: Hey Williams I'm bored lets argue

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 11:20 AM

By the way, if you want something to argue about here's one for you: Dwight Howard is the best defensive player in the league but he is also the most overrated.

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 11:21 AM

Oh and I wouldn't put Lebron or Josh Smith in that last Forward spot, I would put Anderson Varejao.

**PAULYPOKER** · 04-14-10, 11:24 AM

Williams everybody knows Lebron is probably the best NBA player in history so there is no point in arguing this fact

**PAULYPOKER** · 04-14-10, 11:34 AM

What I would love to see just once is Lebron in a Pittsburgh Steeler uniform as a tight end... I'd bet $1,000,000 he would be unstoppable at 6'8" 280+ LBS. running the forty at a eye poping 4.40 with freakishly inhuman strength sick I tellya sick

**big0mar** · 04-14-10, 11:40 AM

As an on-ball defender, LeBron is good, not great.

As an off-the-ball defender though, Lebron is the best in the league, and probably one of the best of all time.

He understands the concepts of his team's defense much better than anybody else in this league.

**Goat Milk** · 04-14-10, 01:05 PM

Originally posted by big0mar

As an off-the-ball defender though, Lebron is the best in the league, and probably one of the best of all time

Calm down buddy his team defense just became great last year and your already putting him as one of the best team defenders of all time? That is the problem with Lebron fans. He doesn't something great for 1-2 years, then already calling him one of the best of all time in that department. Lebron's team D has a LONG WAY to go if he wants to be one of the best "team defenders" of all time. He's no where near in that category with Ben Wallace, Rodman, etc.

Lebron will never be considered one of the best defenders of all time. He only recently stepped up his overall D after playing with Kobe in the olympics.

**Goat Milk** · 04-14-10, 01:06 PM

Originally posted by williams22

Oh and I wouldn't put Lebron or Josh Smith in that last Forward spot, I would put Anderson Varejao.

it's fun to dream

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 01:10 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

it's fun to dream

He's a top 5 defender in the league, easily. If you disagree you either don't watch him enough or don't understand defense. He doesn't have the physical gifts or star recognition of Josh Smith or Dwight Howard, but he's fundamentally better than both. Just ask either the Lakers or the Celtics, both of which he single-handily frustrated.

PS - ESPN currently has him 3rd behind Howard and Wallace.

**Goat Milk** · 04-14-10, 02:05 PM

Originally posted by williams22

He's a top 5 defender in the league, easily. If you disagree you either don't watch him enough or don't understand defense. He doesn't have the physical gifts or star recognition of Josh Smith or Dwight Howard, but he's fundamentally better than both. Just ask either the Lakers or the Celtics, both of which he single-handily frustrated.

PS - ESPN currently has him 3rd behind Howard and Wallace.

Basketball is my life I watch ever game bro and have been in leagues my whole life. Half the people on espn don't even know what their talking about. You want to bet me SBR points that Varaj. doesn't make first team defense?

He's not a great defender, he's just a scrappy player that hustles his ass off. Him and Noah are basically the same players who will never make 1st team defense in their careers.

Top 5 defender, that's fvcking hilarious.

**rm18** · 04-14-10, 02:08 PM

Howard is the most overrated. Gortat is a better defender than him.

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 02:16 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

Basketball is my life I watch ever game bro and have been in leagues my whole life. Half the people on espn don't even know what their talking about. You want to bet me SBR points that Varaj. doesn't make first team defense?

He's not a great defender, he's just a scrappy player that hustles his ass off. Him and Noah are basically the same players who will never make 1st team defense in their careers.

Top 5 defender, that's fvcking hilarious.

Open your eyes and watch him. The guy is in the correct position 100% of the time, always boxes out, and never takes a single play off. The only reason he won't make the first team is because some of the voters of these awards watch even less games than you do and tend to just vote for better known (star) names. Varejao is one of the most skillful and the second smartest (to Battier) defender in the league.

Also, I'm not sure how being "scrappy" and "hustling your ass off" prohibit you from being considered a great defender? Name a single player who guards a pick and roll better than Varejao in the league.

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 02:18 PM

Originally posted by rm18

Howard is the most overrated. Gortat is a better defender than him.

Howard has incredible physical gifts, but he's dumb. He routinely picks up fouls from reaching on plays where he doesn't have to, goaltends on roughly 20% of his shot block attempts, and usually blocks the ball out of bounds or back to the opposing team instead of tap-blocking like Russell perfected years ago. He has a lot to learn.

**rm18** · 04-14-10, 02:18 PM

Varejeao might be a top 5 defender but you have to play big minutes to get recognition

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 02:20 PM

Originally posted by rm18

Varejeao might be a top 5 defender but you have to play big minutes to get recognition

He plays about 29 minutes a game off the bench which is a pretty good amount. He is also currently 3rd in +/- behind only Lebron and Howard (yes, he beats Kobe).

**lyon804** · 04-14-10, 02:27 PM

You folks felt the need to get Williams blood pressure up huh? No doubting his homerism to the Cavs and Lebron, but his statements about Varejao are correct... Prob one of the maon reasons he has been leading the +- stats all year for minutes played. If I was starting a franchise i would want that cat on my team. Varejao won't put the ball in the bucket much but he is a beast of a competetitor and the kind of guy that just wins games.

**talnted** · 04-14-10, 02:30 PM

why are people saying dwight howard is overrated? He leads the NBA in rebounds per game and blocks per game, which he has consistently done in recent seasons. If anyone he deserves the award over anyone else.

**Holtgetsback** · 04-14-10, 02:33 PM

Where does Jason Kidd rank on this category?

**Goat Milk** · 04-14-10, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by williams22

Howard has incredible physical gifts, but he's dumb. He routinely picks up fouls from reaching on plays where he doesn't have to, goaltends on roughly 20% of his shot block attempts, and usually blocks the ball out of bounds or back to the opposing team instead of tap-blocking like Russell perfected years ago. He has a lot to learn.

You obviously don't watch ball because this is what Howard did last year and earlier in his career. Howard is the best in the league today at blocking the shot and keeping it inbounds. That has been his greatest adjustment defensively instead of just swatin it out. You really need to chill out with Varejao he's no where near a top 5 defenders how can you even say he's the smartest defender after battier are you kidding me? He's smarter than Grant hill?

And ok, Varejao might be one of the best FORWARD pick and roll defenders in the league, at his position... Varejao will never be as good a defender as KG, Duncan, or some of the other great forward defenders (i'm talking for their careers). We all know that smart and hustle defense doesn't always mean your successful.

Better offense over better D any day of the week. Wade's dunk over Varejao off a pick and roll posterized him, best dunk of Wade's career and best dunk by any player this season.

BTW, I wouldn't even put Affallo in my top 5 defenders but he's much better overall defender than Varajao, if you watched this guy play, no one moves his feet like him. I think he might be the best 1 on 1 defender since Kobe.

**stealthyburrito** · 04-14-10, 03:01 PM

he has a lot to learn, but he's already making one of the biggest impacts down low

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

You obviously don't watch ball because this is what Howard did last year and earlier in his career. Howard is the best in the league today at blocking the shot and keeping it inbounds. That has been his greatest adjustment defensively instead of just swatin it out. You really need to chill out with Varejao he's no where near a top 5 defenders how can you even say he's the smartest defender after battier are you kidding me? He's smarter than Grant hill?

And ok, Varejao might be one of the best FORWARD pick and roll defenders in the league, at his position... Varejao will never be as good a defender as KG, Duncan, or some of the other great forward defenders (i'm talking for their careers). We all know that smart and hustle defense doesn't always mean your successful.

Better offense over better D any day of the week. Wade's dunk over Varejao off a pick and roll posterized him, best dunk of Wade's career and best dunk by any player this season.

BTW, I wouldn't even put Affallo in my top 5 defenders but he's much better overall defender than Varajao, if you watched this guy play, no one moves his feet like him. I think he might be the best 1 on 1 defender since Kobe.

I don't even know where to begin with you. If you don't think Varejao is a top 5 defender you are watching a different sport. Outside of maybe Howard, no one adds more to a team defensively than Varejao.

Howard still goaltends routinely and is constantly getting into foul trouble because he puts himself in bad positions.

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 03:42 PM

Originally posted by lyon804

You folks felt the need to get Williams blood pressure up huh? No doubting his homerism to the Cavs and Lebron, but his statements about Varejao are correct... Prob one of the maon reasons he has been leading the +- stats all year for minutes played. If I was starting a franchise i would want that cat on my team. Varejao won't put the ball in the bucket much but he is a beast of a competetitor and the kind of guy that just wins games.

Haha my blood pressure is just fine, I love this stuff. Guys need to open their eyes and recognize the contributions Varejao is making this year. He has completely redefined himself on the defense end since last year and no longer simply relies on hustle and flopping. He's becoming a master of the "verticality" rule in the NBA and hedges a pick and roll better than any forward in the league.

No homerism coming from me here as I use to cringe at having Varejao on the floor two seasons ago. This year he is a changed man and is arguably the second most vital piece of the Cavs roster behind Lebron.

**nmr123321** · 04-14-10, 03:43 PM

lol

**williams22** · 04-14-10, 03:44 PM

Originally posted by talnted

why are people saying dwight howard is overrated? He leads the NBA in rebounds per game and blocks per game, which he has consistently done in recent seasons. If anyone he deserves the award over anyone else.

Of course he does, he's an athletic freak. He's overrated because he could be even better. He goaltends far too often (guaranteeing 2 points for the other team) and still gets in foul trouble a lot for a guy who needs to be on the court 40 minutes/game.

Originally posted by Holtgetsback

Where does Jason Kidd rank on this category?

Um, seriously? You gotta be able to move your feet a little quicker than J-Kidd to get DPOY mention.

**I am Happy** · 04-14-10, 03:45 PM

Originally posted by Goat Milk

You obviously don't watch ball because this is what Howard did last year and earlier in his career. Howard is the best in the league today at blocking the shot and keeping it inbounds. That has been his greatest adjustment defensively instead of just swatin it out. You really need to chill out with Varejao he's no where near a top 5 defenders how can you even say he's the smartest defender after battier are you kidding me? He's smarter than Grant hill?

And ok, Varejao might be one of the best FORWARD pick and roll defenders in the league, at his position... Varejao will never be as good a defender as KG, Duncan, or some of the other great forward defenders (i'm talking for their careers). We all know that smart and hustle defense doesn't always mean your successful.

Better offense over better D any day of the week. Wade's dunk over Varejao off a pick and roll posterized him, best dunk of Wade's career and best dunk by any player this season.

BTW, I wouldn't even put Affallo in my top 5 defenders but he's much better overall defender than Varajao, if you watched this guy play, no one moves his feet like him. I think he might be the best 1 on 1 defender since Kobe.

I came into this thread thinking I'd have some intense disagreements with what I perceived GoatMilk would be speaking. However, regarding Varejao, I would have to agree 100%. I live in Akron. I have never been more excited and in love with a Cavalier team as I am now....but lets be real about Varejao being a top 5 defender. He is and would be an asset on any team in this league. However, his individual skillset is not superior. He is canny, a pretty good team and individual defender, but will never be anywhere near DPY nor the caliber of Duncan & Garnett who branded their teams championships through their own defensive dominance.

**PAULYPOKER** · 04-14-10, 04:15 PM

Howard is the best defender hands down He leads the NBA in rebounds and blocks offensively he leads the NBA in field goal percentage

**bradleysnyder** · 04-14-10, 04:16 PM

i disagree...........i think lebron is the most complete player in NBA history.

**PAULYPOKER** · 04-14-10, 04:38 PM

Defense:
Rebounds
Howard 1st
James 32st
Blocks
Howard 1st
James 30th
Steals
James 9th
Howard 62nd
Offense:
Points
James 2nd
Howard 27th
Assists
James 6th
Howard 100th
Field goal%
Howard 1st
James 25th