Horse Racing questions and answers

[str]

I’ve been told by Kathy assistant

that she doesn’t like how the Ortiz bro’s , don’t listen to directions

not sure what that means

I say owners own , trainers train , jocks ride

I cannot speak for her but can speak for myself.

I do not recall having issues with riders not listening to what I said in the paddock or in the mornings prior to the race. The idea, as I was taught, was not to tell the rider how to ride but instead, show them the race broken down on the program as to where and how many speeds that particular race had, any things that the horse liked or more importantly, did not like, and things like that. If they had a 3/8's mile run or less burst but a more sustained longer term run, needed inside or outside, lugged in or out, any gate quirks, don't hit them but show it to them only, and that sort of thing.
In a perfect world, I would say something like, lay, 2,3,4 and go when ready but as we all know, some races run as drawn up and some are a mess. That has to be a rider decision depending on the circumstances.



That said, she is darn successful so I have to think she knows what she is doing.

[str]

the part about possibly trying to dull the horses speed makes sense but if that's what she was trying to do it didn't work lol.. went out and pressed a 21:3 first quarter.. as you know at 4.5f that's a lot of turn involved.. held well and battled back last eighth to lose by <2 lengths.. announcer commented on what a good effort it was.. guess maybe the long works helped her fight back towards the end.. an excellent follow-up and goi g to mention to harthebar.. thanks str

I actually saw the chart before I wrote that and wondered if it might sound stupid with 21 3/5ths sitting there. Lol.
But rule of thumb is what I said. And yes, I would assume that the fitness for the distance did have something to do with the horse continuing on and making it closer than if otherwise.
Would watch this especially going 5/8ths next time. Gotta think they will move the distance back soon.

[str]

I’m now on an irad kick in a way

he claimed foul today that was bogus and so glad they staying consistent since back up

today was way worse and than the other and he was on oppo end

but now I’m getting concerned more than ever about the horses

That was r8 Bel

but I wanna know about r7 Bel

to me, I’m seeing a horse that’s not responding , all the to the point, that he said forget this, don’t whip me again

and irad starting to get bad urging without response

I’m getting worried

Being ignorant on the owners / trainers Game

I was mad he kept hitting when was still gonna be 2nd

I’m predicting an irad blowup in next few years

-side note his brother just hit 2k wins , 26... why does HOF require less fir jocks than trainers is also kinda dumb

but I digress

thank you in advance

- love

Q. I’m now on an irad kick in a way

he claimed foul today that was bogus and so glad they staying consistent since back up

today was way worse and than the other and he was on oppo end

but now I’m getting concerned more than ever about the horses

That was r8 Bel

A. I saw it. I agree with a no change but they did bump . The winner was lugging in. That was not the rider trying to make it tight. It really was the horse.



Q. but I wanna know about r7 Bel

to me, I’m seeing a horse that’s not responding , all the to the point, that he said forget this, don’t whip me again

and irad starting to get bad urging without response

I’m getting worried

Being ignorant on the owners / trainers Game

I was mad he kept hitting when was still gonna be 2nd


A. I heard Migliore talking about that after the race. The horse really seemed to resent it. You could see it in his face. Ears pinned back tightly. Horse was pissed. So was Irad. Riders always told me how frustrating it is to feel them not putting out. My best guess is once he bolted outwards, Irad got pissed and that's why he hit him twice more I think, maybe 3 times? Don't remember. I mean, he didn't abuse the horse but came close IMO.He was pissed and it showed. You can't do that.

Q. I’m predicting an irad blowup in next few years


A. Well, I hope not as he is so damn talented. He needs to take his mental to the next level. That will come with maturity along with some big name trainers having a chat with him in the mornings. It's a learning curve and he is still young enough to need some chats every now and then. I think he learns from that. You can have youth excuses with that much talent but only for so long. Time to grow up if you want to be on that large a stage.
It will be interesting to see if he rides him back.

Q. -side note his brother just hit 2k wins , 26... why does HOF require less fir jocks than trainers is also kinda dumb

A. Well on one hand a trainer might run 2,3 or even 4 on a day while the rider riders all 9. But... The rider has a window of time to win. Heck, a trainer can rack up wins for decades. So I guess that's why. Being a trainer, I felt the same way kid.

It's weird the racing HOF. And most HOF's I guess. Case in point. If Barclay wins the Belmont and certainly if he wins the Derby, he is a LOCK for the hall. But if he loses, he's on the edge. So, at the end of the day one race decides that fate? After a lifetime of dedication ? Hell no. Not in reality. But in the eyes of the voters, absolutely. I never thought that was fair.

BTW, I saw Tiz The Law breeze the other day. Barclay has him saddle in the Belmont paddock, then, Barclay was on the pony and he had the horse walk around like race day, post parade, gallop off , then break off and breeze. Practice like it's game day. So cool to see.
Not many trainers do those little things. The Whiteley way. The right way. Hopefully someday they will say, the Tagg way.

[JBEX]

would seem with the timing of frank whiteley's career and the age's of shug and barclay that he might've had the former there for most of the 70's (79 shugs first year) and guessing barclay covered a good part of the 60's...saw and think you mentioned tagg was a steeplechase rider.. says frank's first major stakes win was the 1963 cowdin and he won a couple of stakes in 1977 so guess that might been near the end of his training career.. should say they weren't exactly minor ones either (met mile and woodward).. couple of pretty solid assistants he had there for the bulk of his days as a trainer(says tagg's first win as a trainer was in 1972 at old liberty park)..

frank would have been 48 in 1963 so guess he didn't get the high end horses in the 1950's.. have to think with his age he trained on his own in that decade

a funny story about him.. said he hated the press and was asked by a reporter before the 1967 derby "how'd damascus sleep last night" and his response "how the hell would I know, I didn't sleep with him" then he just walked away lol

[JBEX]

hey str

ever meet frank whiteley during your days as a trainer ?

I sure did. But not as a trainer the first time.

I was a green hot walker just learning the basics. Laurel, Fall of 1972. I was in barn 19, he was in barn 20. I lived in the barn in one of the rooms on the end.The outfit I worked for, had a lot of horses and needed an extra stall. We borrowed one from him, next door, and I would take the horse breakfast at 4:30 am and check on him around 8pm adding water or hay if necessary.
Mr. Whiteley was there every morning when I went to feed our horse early. Not at night, the night watchman was there then.
I remember saying good morning to him several times as he always spotted me entering his barn. I think he always said good morning young man, or something like that. He only had about 12 horses there so they were all on the same side as our stall was, facing barn 19.
Honestly, it was like when people see rock stars or a big name ball player. Even when I knew nothing, I knew he was great. You could just feel it in the air.
Once I became a trainer, in 1976, I spoke to him maybe a couple more times but his son David was taking over the Laurel horses so he was rarely around for me to see . I told him once when he was in a small group of trainers gathered around the rail watching horses train in the morning, that I was the person he used to see feeding that horse in the stall he loaned. I forget exactly what he said but it was complimentary a little towards me, and a lot towards my mentor. Again, I forget the conversation but he said something about being a quick learner , mainly because I started training at 20 years old, which was unheard of then. The average trainers age was probably mid to late 40's back then. Anyway, I do remember answering to him something like, it's hard not to learn quickly when I am surrounded with great trainers. He said something kind of gruff back to me like, you are only as good as your next decision or something like that. Pretty sure I said yes sir, and that was the end of it.
That was who he was. Tough as nails and accepted only the attempt at perfection.
I guess that is partly why I liked Ruffian so much. Don't know for sure. Too me, the greatest female I have ever seen race.
When I saw your avatar I almost fell out of my chair. What a great, great trainer and teacher he was.
I was soooo lucky to meet the people I met while at the track. Some of the names would blow you away. Almost doesn't seem real or like it didn't really happen, but it did. One lucky guy.
Thanks for using his pic. And thanks for the question. Brings back a ton of memories.

from 12/2015..cool story

[Louisvillekid1]

Thanks fir responses !!!

Yes irad off this weekend

number of suspensions

seems they can pick and choose

it’s really odd

[Louisvillekid1]

A. I heard Migliore talking about that after the race. The horse really seemed to resent it. You could see it in his face. Ears pinned back tightly. Horse was pissed. So was Irad. Riders always told me how frustrating it is to feel them not putting out. My best guess is once he bolted outwards, Irad got pissed and that's why he hit him twice more I think, maybe 3 times? Don't remember. I mean, he didn't abuse the horse but came close IMO.He was pissed and it showed. You can't do that.
——-
yes it’s these lil hints that im seeing

Mildly concernced

I’m with you , but I can see it happening

[Louisvillekid1]

Come to Delaware park tomorrow , str ...

I’ll be down there around noon

[str]

Come to Delaware park tomorrow , str ...

I’ll be down there around noon

I wish I could.

Have a full day in Virginia today.

So many memories there. Here are a few.

If you come in the front gate, the baseball field on the right was the site of one of many a softball game where we all played after the races each summer. The Reem Team lives on.

If you go down the road behind the grandstand, a moment of silence for jockey George Cusimano who had a bad ass sports car and crashed while going about 90 MPH they said,about 8PM, just after the softball game, into one of the trees that line the side of the road. Killed on impact. So damn sad. George could ride Kid. Great guy but had a crazy streak, obviously.

If they still have the milkshake stand, I highly recommend one. They were the best back in the day.

And if you walk by the racing secretary's office, that is where Bud Delp chased me into there because I had been cherry picking his drop downs and he had boiled over after the horse in the picture won. I had claimed Argot 4 days earlier and he ran 6th , entered him back on the raise the next day and 3 days after that, he won. Lolol.

Have a great day Kid !

[str]

Argot. He got me in a lot of trouble .Lolol.


BTW, the yellow hat the guy in the middle is wearing is a Forego hat that they gave out when they paraded him around De. Park just when he was retiring. That guys name was Larry Loughery. He was one of my employees at the time. He was a jockey in NY with the bug and he was in a triple dead heat up there many years earlier. Pretty rare.Think I talked about that in here once.

[Louisvillekid1]

Awesome !!!

[JBEX]

hey str


thought you'd be interested at delaware lacey has a live looking horse in R4..her biggest competition imo is to the her immediate left and right.. former being mark reid and the other kieron magee a top trainer over there.. both of those trainers have really bad roi numbers with long layoffs.. hers is a very consistent lightly raced 5yo mare.. know you have a soft spot for delaware so figure i'd mention it

[str]

hey str


thought you'd be interested at delaware lacey has a live looking horse in R4..her biggest competition imo is to the her immediate left and right.. former being mark reid and the other kieron magee a top trainer over there.. both of those trainers have really bad roi numbers with long layoffs.. hers is a very consistent lightly raced 5yo mare.. know you have a soft spot for delaware so figure i'd mention it

Glad you did. Thank you.

Just saw the chart and Lacey's horse seemed to run well. Looks like the horse had trouble leaving the gate and could not overcome the deficit. Ironically, the winner came in and slammed her, which back in the day would have been a DQ. In today's world, they let the 1st step go it seems, and I guess I get that.
In that situation, having the box ( the outside post with a long run to the far turn, for those that don't know) is a real advantage.
We have talked I think about Mark Reid off time as his strong suit would typically be 2nd and 3rd off the lay. So next out that horse should run significantly better. Don't know who Kieron worked under so can't comment. He did however gallop horses for me for a off and on over a couple of years. He would freelance galloping at Laurel and I had some he could get on. Was above average doing that but is a big guy, so I had to pick the horses I wanted him on. The horse needed to be a stronger or bigger type. No little fillies for Kieron. Lol.
Good hard working guy.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Glad you did. Thank you.

Just saw the chart and Lacey's horse seemed to run well. Looks like the horse had trouble leaving the gate and could not overcome the deficit. Ironically, the winner came in and slammed her, which back in the day would have been a DQ. In today's world, they let the 1st step go it seems, and I guess I get that.
In that situation, having the box ( the outside post with a long run to the far turn, for those that don't know) is a real advantage.
We have talked I think about Mark Reid off time as his strong suit would typically be 2nd and 3rd off the lay. So next out that horse should run significantly better. Don't know who Kieron worked under so can't comment. He did however gallop horses for me for a off and on over a couple of years. He would freelance galloping at Laurel and I had some he could get on. Was above average doing that but is a big guy, so I had to pick the horses I wanted him on. The horse needed to be a stronger or bigger type. No little fillies for Kieron. Lol.
Good hard working guy.

Thanks JBEX.

no problem str.. yeah lacey's got out bad but ran a nice race to come 3rd.. cool you know kieron .. seen his name over the years and he usually seems to have good numbers.. but couldn't just hop on any horse in the am lol.. keep you posted if I see stuff that's interesting

[JBEX]

I thought you would find this $102 winner at tampa bay in R1 interesting..I didn't play the race but looked at it afterwards

#7 call me handsome

favorite breaks just inside of him and he's 4-5

his figures have improved 3 straight races


my running line last race but understand that's my thing lol

last time he ran his last race figure exactly (1/10 )he did it at same distance and wired field next race at same distance as he ran last out @ 7-1 ..today significantly shorter at 5.5f (wired them here )

key thing (to me) pace figure 2 back was very high for this race

key thing:as you always say but forget terminology..outside post sprint* (out of the box ?)


it's not one of those "why didn't i's"but some interesting stuff don't you think ?

[str]

I thought you would find this $102 winner at tampa bay in R1 interesting..I didn't play the race but looked at it afterwards

#7 call me handsome

favorite breaks just inside of him and he's 4-5

his figures have improved 3 straight races


my running line last race but understand that's my thing lol

last time he ran his last race figure exactly (1/10 )he did it at same distance and wired field next race at same distance as he ran last out @ 7-1 ..today significantly shorter at 5.5f (wired them here )

key thing (to me) pace figure 2 back was very high for this race

key thing:as you always say but forget terminology..outside post sprint* (out of the box ?)


it's not one of those "why didn't i's"but some interesting stuff don't you think ?

Thanks JBEX.

The outside post in any long run down the backside is called " the box". Basically , it is a position of controlling what other riders are thinking and having to do to get their horses in position. I have long talked about this. This also goes with the "right eye" that I have stressed in conjunction with inside speed and position. Both are trip factors that play with the horses willingness or not, to put forth optimum effort both mentally and physically as well as burn energy at a higher rate or not, and, make jockeys make decisions earlier than they would want to or, if the trip is a good one, conserve that horses energy and allow the horse to breathe easier and feel more relaxed.

The main reason for looking for the box, is because it really is an advantage if the horse that draws that outside post has speed or close up position.
First of all, that post has the pleasure of having the opportunity that no other horse has in the race which is to be loaded last. Might not seem like a big deal, and it isn't for many types of horses. But when we are talking about speed horses we are generally talking about one dimensional horses that need things to go their way in order to give the highest degree of effort. We have all heard the old adage, " last in, first out". And in this case, which is a beaten race for very cheap, mostly untalented horses, they are typically high strung, nervous types, that can mean a lot.

For me, pace makes the race. It always has IMO. Also, trips are extremely important IMO. While we all can handicap differently, and there is no one way to do it, that is what has always worked for me and that is what I am comfortable with. That is why I always look for a horse that can take advantage of the box.

Now I am certainly not saying I would have bet that horse that paid 102.00 to win, but no doubt I would have considered the outside , easy trip opportunity that he had drawn . If you look at his form, as you mentioned, the race on (1/10) set up his best effort next out which was his best figure. But what was his 2nd best figure? It was the race after that, with, you guessed it, the box.

I doubt it is a stretch to say that this horse is brave when given the right circumstances . Great catch JBEX.

I think we can always learn by watching any race. Hopefully this race will help bring attention to the "box" for players to consider when the situation fits.
If anyone needs to follow up about this, feel free.

[str]

Thanks JBEX.

The outside post in any long run down the backside is called " the box". Basically , it is a position of controlling what other riders are thinking and having to do to get their horses in position. I have long talked about this. This also goes with the "right eye" that I have stressed in conjunction with inside speed and position. Both are trip factors that play with the horses willingness or not, to put forth optimum effort both mentally and physically as well as burn energy at a higher rate or not, and, make jockeys make decisions earlier than they would want to or, if the trip is a good one, conserve that horses energy and allow the horse to breathe easier and feel more relaxed.

The main reason for looking for the box, is because it really is an advantage if the horse that draws that outside post has speed or close up position.
First of all, that post has the pleasure of having the opportunity that no other horse has in the race which is to be loaded last. Might not seem like a big deal, and it isn't for many types of horses. But when we are talking about speed horses we are generally talking about one dimensional horses that need things to go their way in order to give the highest degree of effort. We have all heard the old adage, " last in, first out". And in this case, which is a beaten race for very cheap, mostly untalented horses, they are typically high strung, nervous types, that can mean a lot.

For me, pace makes the race. It always has IMO. Also, trips are extremely important IMO. While we all can handicap differently, and there is no one way to do it, that is what has always worked for me and that is what I am comfortable with. That is why I always look for a horse that can take advantage of the box.

Now I am certainly not saying I would have bet that horse that paid 102.00 to win, but no doubt I would have considered the outside , easy trip opportunity that he had drawn . If you look at his form, as you mentioned, the race on (1/10) set up his best effort next out which was his best figure. But what was his 2nd best figure? It was the race after that, with, you guessed it, the box.

I doubt it is a stretch to say that this horse is brave when given the right circumstances . Great catch JBEX.

I think we can always learn by watching any race. Hopefully this race will help bring attention to the "box" for players to consider when the situation fits.
If anyone needs to follow up about this, feel free.

I reread my post and some might still question why it matters in that run to the turn. The reason is because every horse is running, or should be running on their right lead, meaning the right leg is reaching out the furthest. All the horses will be switching over to their left leads as the go into the turn.

Why? Because they need to have the balance of the inside leg going around a turn to the left. If the turn was to the right, they would need the right lead to get them around a banked sharp turn. ( Think of it like leaning into a turn . It's much more than that, but that might help.)

So when the horse switches from the right lead to the left lead, they naturally move to the left by a bit more than the width of their body. So about 3-4 feet. If 8 horses are stacked up shoulder to shoulder, the whole line would shift to the left 4 feet. If there is less than 4 feet between the rail and the most inside horse, there will be no room left for that inside horse once they all switch.
That is why you see riders who are on the rail and a neck or more back of the horse next to them either gun to get up into the hole, or check just before the turn to get out of the hole. If they stay where they are, and are already tight to the rail, they will get smashed by the outside horse when it switches leads and the horse can get tangled up with front legs and back legs and riders can get dropped, or worse. If you notice, those heavy checks are always just before the turn. So they have to get out of that spot or up into that spot. That hole will be gone as soon as the horses switch.

The opposite takes place when they turn for home. They switch to their right leads and the race slides out from the rail about 3-4 feet. That is why it looks like the rider allowed the rail to open up. They actually didn't. The horse simply moved over to lead with it's right leg.

This switching is also very helpful with allowing muscles to be used together . Kind of like a boxer who only punches with one hand. That side will tire out if not given a rest while the other arm punches sometimes.

Lastly, you see speed horses who sometimes do not switch leads through the lane. They stay on their left lead for about a 1/2 mile straight while running at a high speed. That leg and shoulder muscle tires out and they typically get caught late by the horse that used both leads and did a better job of distributing the muscle use properly.

Horses are taught how to switch leads before they are sent to the track as babies.

Hope that helps.

[JBEX]

Thanks JBEX.

The outside post in any long run down the backside is called " the box". Basically , it is a position of controlling what other riders are thinking and having to do to get their horses in position. I have long talked about this. This also goes with the "right eye" that I have stressed in conjunction with inside speed and position. Both are trip factors that play with the horses willingness or not, to put forth optimum effort both mentally and physically as well as burn energy at a higher rate or not, and, make jockeys make decisions earlier than they would want to or, if the trip is a good one, conserve that horses energy and allow the horse to breathe easier and feel more relaxed.

The main reason for looking for the box, is because it really is an advantage if the horse that draws that outside post has speed or close up position.
First of all, that post has the pleasure of having the opportunity that no other horse has in the race which is to be loaded last. Might not seem like a big deal, and it isn't for many types of horses. But when we are talking about speed horses we are generally talking about one dimensional horses that need things to go their way in order to give the highest degree of effort. We have all heard the old adage, " last in, first out". And in this case, which is a beaten race for very cheap, mostly untalented horses, they are typically high strung, nervous types, that can mean a lot.

For me, pace makes the race. It always has IMO. Also, trips are extremely important IMO. While we all can handicap differently, and there is no one way to do it, that is what has always worked for me and that is what I am comfortable with. That is why I always look for a horse that can take advantage of the box.

Now I am certainly not saying I would have bet that horse that paid 102.00 to win, but no doubt I would have considered the outside , easy trip opportunity that he had drawn . If you look at his form, as you mentioned, the race on (1/10) set up his best effort next out which was his best figure. But what was his 2nd best figure? It was the race after that, with, you guessed it, the box.

I doubt it is a stretch to say that this horse is brave when given the right circumstances . Great catch JBEX.

I think we can always learn by watching any race. Hopefully this race will help bring attention to the "box" for players to consider when the situation fits.
If anyone needs to follow up about this, feel free.

I know you have mentioned this repeatedly and something that has always made sense to me.. and that it might even be magnified with cheap beaten claimers also seems logical.. he looked ugly on paper next to that favorite but jock must have figured going in this guy has a burst when needed and from the outside post he's going for it.. and did do it once before at even further distance a positive also and that time was from a middle post.. I see as you said his 2nd best figure was also from "the box" and if that were at 5.5f like today he may have been a winner.. one other thing I thought was a little interesting was how his pace figures in his last race (if you avg first 2 calls) was the same as the other 65 race but vs tougher 5000n2y vs 8000n3l it put him further back


thanks str

[JBEX]

hey str


mark reid has one in R4 at delaware #2 tappahannock (8-1)..2nd off about a 3 month layoff (vwhich you've told me about) back in 12 days.. dirt to turf.. looks good

[str]

hey str


mark reid has one in R4 at delaware #2 tappahannock (8-1)..2nd off about a 3 month layoff (vwhich you've told me about) back in 12 days.. dirt to turf.. looks good

Yep. That move is a classic mentor move that I am sure Mark uses well.

Hope he runs well.

Thanks JBEX.

[JBEX]

Yep. That move is a classic mentor move that I am sure Mark uses well.

Hope he runs well.

Thanks JBEX.

belated thank you str



have another name of a guy I believe I've seen for many years on the md circuit.. has a horse I like at delaware today.. ferris allen III.. is he a long-timer?

[JBEX]

belated thank you str



have another name of a guy I believe I've seen for many years on the md circuit.. has a horse I like at delaware today.. ferris allen III.. is he a long-timer?

btw seems the product at delaware is much better now.. purses bigger and guys shipping in from a lot of other 2nd level tracks from the south and midwest..big improvement

[str]

belated thank you str



have another name of a guy I believe I've seen for many years on the md circuit.. has a horse I like at delaware today.. ferris allen III.. is he a long-timer?

Yep. He came up under Bill Wolfendale. I'm thinking he has been in Md. since the early 80's? After I left in 2001, I coached his son in an 18-19 travel baseball league for a year.

[str]

btw seems the product at delaware is much better now.. purses bigger and guys shipping in from a lot of other 2nd level tracks from the south and midwest..big improvement

I glanced at the entries when you talked about Mark's horse last week. I did notice some names that were nice to see there. Bigger purses is all Del. Park needed. It is a GREAT place to spend the summer for both people and horses. Some fond memories of my summers there.

Back in the day, having a race over the dirt track was pretty important. The surface used to be demanding and favored those that had raced over it once. Don't know if that still exists but I would guess it would. It's a totally different surface than Monmouth or Pimlico was. And that was where most of the horses came from then. Not as much now I guess especially with no Pimlico so far this year but don't know for sure.

[JBEX]

Yep. He came up under Bill Wolfendale. I'm thinking he has been in Md. since the early 80's? After I left in 2001, I coached his son in an 18-19 travel baseball league for a year.

OK thanks... thought I'd seen that name for a while

[JBEX]

I glanced at the entries when you talked about Mark's horse last week. I did notice some names that were nice to see there. Bigger purses is all Del. Park needed. It is a GREAT place to spend the summer for both people and horses. Some fond memories of my summers there.

Back in the day, having a race over the dirt track was pretty important. The surface used to be demanding and favored those that had raced over it once. Don't know if that still exists but I would guess it would. It's a totally different surface than Monmouth or Pimlico was. And that was where most of the horses came from then. Not as much now I guess especially with no Pimlico so far this year but don't know for sure.

I've heard it's a nice place but have never been..


watching races there if I was asked does it seem like a heavy type of track I would say yes..seems like they are trudging over that surface and have noticed that for a long time

[JBEX]

hey str

if you have time curious on your thoughts in R5 @ ellis park (3:42) regarding the favorite #4 proudly fought (2-1)..the way he broke his maiden vs $10k claimers from the 11 post don't you think this aiming kind of low.. understand churchill is done but man I wouldn't want him for sale for $5k off that type of win and look at the works following that.. that race is about 6 lengths faster than par for this level.. also you had about a month to try again at churchill....he'll be odds-on in here and I think suspect.. interested to see if he's taken

[JBEX]

hey str

if you have time curious on your thoughts in R5 @ ellis park (3:42) regarding the favorite #4 proudly fought (2-1)..the way he broke his maiden vs $10k claimers from the 11 post don't you think this aiming kind of low.. understand churchill is done but man I wouldn't want him for sale for $5k off that type of win and look at the works following that.. that race is about 6 lengths faster than par for this level.. also you had about a month to try again at churchill....he'll be odds-on in here and I think suspect.. interested to see if he's taken

one other interesting note.. you remember the 3yo filly who I told you about that won on the stretch out at will rogers? after that race she tried clm 50k 3yo's on the turf at churchill going a mile and missed by a neck.. back today at ellis in R6 trying oc40k/n2x ot.. the horse that finished behind her at will rogers won next start.. #6 sugoi (6-1) joe rocco jr rides


oh yeah also important.. claimed last race by a trainer who is bad 1st off the claim

[str]

hey str

if you have time curious on your thoughts in R5 @ ellis park (3:42) regarding the favorite #4 proudly fought (2-1)..the way he broke his maiden vs $10k claimers from the 11 post don't you think this aiming kind of low.. understand churchill is done but man I wouldn't want him for sale for $5k off that type of win and look at the works following that.. that race is about 6 lengths faster than par for this level.. also you had about a month to try again at churchill....he'll be odds-on in here and I think suspect.. interested to see if he's taken

I agree. she won easily and was supposed to. She got claimed and was also supposed to. The works were very quick. Hard to say why they jammed her in like that. It's like they were hoping to win and lose her.

I would say maybe she has some big problems but you typically don't take those out and work them so fast they get a bullet.

Very strange.

[str]

one other interesting note.. you remember the 3yo filly who I told you about that won on the stretch out at will rogers? after that race she tried clm 50k 3yo's on the turf at churchill going a mile and missed by a neck.. back today at ellis in R6 trying oc40k/n2x ot.. the horse that finished behind her at will rogers won next start.. #6 sugoi (6-1) joe rocco jr rides


oh yeah also important.. claimed last race by a trainer who is bad 1st off the claim

This one should have been at a minimum, competitive in that race. But the horse was darn near eased. Head and head and stopped after a 1/2 mile.

That is worrisome from the physical standpoint.

[JBEX]

I agree. she won easily and was supposed to. She got claimed and was also supposed to. The works were very quick. Hard to say why they jammed her in like that. It's like they were hoping to win and lose her.

I would say maybe she has some big problems but you typically don't take those out and work them so fast they get a bullet.

Very strange.

I guess if there was a churchill bottom level to be run last 2 weeks which I think would be 8kn2l they felt that may have been too much her.. sure there's a sizeable difference in talent and purse in one of those.. have to think that's a good claim for the new connections the way she ran.. sure there's a n3L and then maybe they'll have the n1y and n2y's but wouldn't be able to face those for a while.. might be capable of running with opens there with the way she won

[JBEX]

This one should have been at a minimum, competitive in that race. But the horse was darn near eased. Head and head and stopped after a 1/2 mile.

That is worrisome from the physical standpoint.

yeah at churchill that level would probably be too tough but ellis should have been a good fit.. obviously something amiss.. thanks for responding to both str

[JBEX]

thought you'd get a kick out of this.. hong kong R1 next card.. I mean if my horse goes swimming between races I want to know about it lol

https://racing.hkjc.com/racing/information/English/Racing/Localtrackwork.aspx?RaceDate=2020/07/05&Racecourse=ST&RaceNo=1

[JBEX]

hey str

tony dutrow has one in the last at belmont that looks pretty good..have to beat a chad debuter but that gets you a price

Thanks for the heads up.

Saw the replay. Actually did run very well. Tough race set up. I always hated two horses running off and screwing up the pace and flow. Unless of course I had a closer. If so, I felt like the cat with the canary feather hanging out of it's mouth. Lol.
That horse is certainly worth a second chance .

belmont R6 #3 amazing ride (15-1)

[JBEX]

tough a field as you'll find part of the reason she's 15-1