Any of you guys have good luck betting the trotters? I've been doing fairly decent on my OTB adventures as of late and have been throwing a few bets at the trotters with little luck. Any of you have any advice on betting trotters?
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Cecil is the best harness hanidicapper on here in my opinion, when he posts picks follow themComment -
Thanks for the advice, ill have to follow him.Comment -
Many, many years ago I got introduced to the horse racing industry with the pacers and trotters.
They are the most difficult of the races to handicap. Too many variables. EX: soft tire on bike, flat tire on bike, line breaks, headpole slips, the Driver has trouble seeing the horse in front and could run up on the lead horse causing the horse to "break", not giving enough room for sulky, etc and on and on.
Best advise for the pacers and trotters, is take a horse that is consistant. Take the drivers that are in the top five for that track and by all means put a few bucks on a horse "shipping in" from another area. You never know, especially if the owner uses a top driver.
Also, if a horse shows that he has just been "claimed" or changed ownership since he last raced, by all means throw some money on him...again you never know.
Be aware most of these Drivers at the smaller tracks are "shirt tail" related to one another and therefore help one another out.
Good Luck.Last edited by Gremlin Lad; 03-07-11, 07:11 PM.Comment -
That saying I posted "the drivers help one another out" also applies to thoroughbred jockeys.
Most recent example....at Aquequct Jockey DaSilva was tossed from his mount after the last race was over last Wednesday..... Went to hospital and had xrays done...released.
On Sunday, He was back riding again. Race 1 finished second, Race 2 finished second, and Race 8 finished third.
Not bad for a jockey that has a very difficult time normally finishing in the top five spots in any race he is in.
Jockeys get paid a percentage of what the horse gets in sharing the purse money of the race. Purse is percentaged to the top five finishers with the winner usually getting 50 % of the purse. Jockeys usually get 10% of what horse earns.
Makes you wonder doesn't it ???Comment -
I love harness racing and prefer it to TB racing. I used to ride 2 buses to get the harness program when I was 11 years old. Learn the correlation between final quarters and the internal fractions.Comment -
Over DaSilva's last 895 mounts 19% winners 36% w&p 49% in the money making a win bet on all of those mounts would have yielded a 6% profitComment -
haha-no pressure, right?
i learned in my early 20's that i did better with the pacers/trotter than the tb's. it all began when i realized that standardbred horses run the standard One Mile. makes the past performance sheet alot easier to cap (or so i have convinced myself) when they're all basically running the same distance although a lot can change from a 5/8 to the full mile track. Gremlin Lad hit it right on the head when he mentions horses that are "shipping in" or fresh off a claim are horses to research/watch a race or two. both are very good angles but if you dont know that a horse shipping into balmoral from woodbine is a ton different from a horse shippping to the meadowlands from northfield its all greek to you....a lot has to do with putting your time in. which doesnt necessarily mean betting every single friggin race.
im learning to "pick my spots"-i have a friend who frequesnts the pony parlors with me and upon entry his eyes glaze over looking at all the tv's and before i know it he has action on just about every single race in the joint. how? i have no idea as my nose is buried in the program (which he claims is the kiss of death)
as for doing well at cappin horses i think im a work in progress...perhaps a book is out there that can help me refine my "approach". i say this because i feel like i can spot/pick enough horses to make a profit im just not playing them right. i started with exotics (exacta-trifecta-10 cent "superman") and have been loving them for decadesmostly because the payouts can become quite juicy. later as i started to dabble in sports wagering i said to myself if i was going to lay $ out (on NHL mostly) it wasnt going to be on anything below even $ odds-i am a value shopper. long story short: i made out ok last NHL season-made $ in MLB over the summer and quit cold turkey midway thru this NHL season after a losing trend i couldnt see ending.-crazy ass year. ask anyone who made an attempt
so im back to my first love: the Horsies!
im now applying what ive learned in the sportsbook to the racebook. meaning: $20 to show(come in 3rd) on a longshot ive honed in on after scouring the PP for an hour or 2 sits better in my gut that laying 140 bucks on the flyers to win $100 if ya know what im sayin...
My best advice: pick your spots.
Gremlin Lad-my driver takes 5% but again, thats sulky racing. tb's may differ....
*Beaver Patrol (and everyone else cappin harness racing)-Post your harness plays here! its the only way this place gets better!Comment -
Hello Gremlin,
Thought I would help you out on this one.Jockeys make 10% of the winning purse. But unless the distribution has changed drastically in the last 10 years since I left,jockeys finishing 2nd or 3rd earn at most 5% of the owners share(20% for 2nd and 10-12% for 3rd).In a 10,000 purse that would be about 100 dollars for 2nd and 50 dollars for 3rd.All others would receive about 40 dollars for 4th through last.In my 6,000+ starts as a trainer, if I had ever seen a jock cost me 2nd or 3rd to help another rider,( for 10-50 dollars or any amount for that matter) it would have gotten real ugly, real quick.I never encountered such a problem.
Trainers do earn 10% across the board of what the horse earns.
Now, what jockeys will do sometimes, is possibly move out of a fellow riders way if there horse is dead ,and yes, they might not move out of the way while on a dead horse for a fellow rider that just claimed foul against them or has otherwise gotten on there bad side for whatever reason.
Trust me when I tell you that trainers no full well what is going on out there and jockeys do not want to bite the hand that feeds them.
Hope that helps and thank you for taking the time to write some of the stories that you post.I am sure that many people really appreciate it.
Best of Luck.
strLast edited by str; 03-07-11, 05:44 PM.Comment -
Yes ..I might of aimed high on drivers and jockeys percent take. Kinda fell back on my history in harness racing.. Knew a driver that got 10 percent of the horse's purse take. Knew the owner too. BUT I forgot one important thing the driver was also the TRAINER of the horse ........trainer got 5 percent and the driver got 5 percent ..that is why I mentioned 10 percent. Sorry.
I think D. Reeves check donation of $18,000. to Mr Coa in the hospital would of been around 6 percent of what share of purse winnings was.....
Classy Man !Comment -
Thanks for this thread, the trotters have always baffled me!Comment -
Play your birthday and go to a movie or whatever and check the results when you get home!
or/and
follow Cecil as you did tonight.......Comment -
Yonkers form seems to hold up...northfield can be very tricky as they are very cheap horses...Meadowlands has 10 horse fields and with that a long stretch so you need to def include some good closersComment -
I haven't played much harness racing but in the forum competitions. I'll give it a try though. Hope they do start posting there harness plays here.haha-no pressure, right?
i learned in my early 20's that i did better with the pacers/trotter than the tb's. it all began when i realized that standardbred horses run the standard One Mile. makes the past performance sheet alot easier to cap (or so i have convinced myself) when they're all basically running the same distance although a lot can change from a 5/8 to the full mile track. Gremlin Lad hit it right on the head when he mentions horses that are "shipping in" or fresh off a claim are horses to research/watch a race or two. both are very good angles but if you dont know that a horse shipping into balmoral from woodbine is a ton different from a horse shippping to the meadowlands from northfield its all greek to you....a lot has to do with putting your time in. which doesnt necessarily mean betting every single friggin race.
im learning to "pick my spots"-i have a friend who frequesnts the pony parlors with me and upon entry his eyes glaze over looking at all the tv's and before i know it he has action on just about every single race in the joint. how? i have no idea as my nose is buried in the program (which he claims is the kiss of death)
as for doing well at cappin horses i think im a work in progress...perhaps a book is out there that can help me refine my "approach". i say this because i feel like i can spot/pick enough horses to make a profit im just not playing them right. i started with exotics (exacta-trifecta-10 cent "superman") and have been loving them for decadesmostly because the payouts can become quite juicy. later as i started to dabble in sports wagering i said to myself if i was going to lay $ out (on NHL mostly) it wasnt going to be on anything below even $ odds-i am a value shopper. long story short: i made out ok last NHL season-made $ in MLB over the summer and quit cold turkey midway thru this NHL season after a losing trend i couldnt see ending.-crazy ass year. ask anyone who made an attempt
so im back to my first love: the Horsies!
im now applying what ive learned in the sportsbook to the racebook. meaning: $20 to show(come in 3rd) on a longshot ive honed in on after scouring the PP for an hour or 2 sits better in my gut that laying 140 bucks on the flyers to win $100 if ya know what im sayin...
My best advice: pick your spots.
Gremlin Lad-my driver takes 5% but again, thats sulky racing. tb's may differ....
*Beaver Patrol (and everyone else cappin harness racing)-Post your harness plays here! its the only way this place gets better!Comment -
drivers are critical in trotters more than pacers IMO.. You have to have good hands to keep a trotter going well.. If you'replaying meadowlands or yonkers I would always look to see who Miller, Pierce and Brennan are driving.. they are great with trotters..Also, if you see trotters shipping out FROM the meadows to another track, take a shot.. they always seem to race well when shipping out from thereComment -
that is one mean 5/8 track so usually the seasoned vet shipping from there has some "track relief" if you would....
Roger Huston is one of the best too.....couldnt stand him a decade or so ago but now i couldnt imagine another voice calling my trotter to the post!
ya gotta love.... "its o-fish-aaaal"
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couldnt agree more about the tracj... will disagree about houston.. i think hes awfulthat is one mean 5/8 track so usually the seasoned vet shipping from there has some "track relief" if you would.... Roger Huston is one of the best too.....couldnt stand him a decade or so ago but now i couldnt imagine another voice calling my trotter to the post! ya gotta love.... "its o-fish-aaaal"Comment -
roger \when roger huston calls,i call on my mute button on the remote.he gives me chills.Comment -
" What's the 3/4s gonna be...." I liked his call of Falcon Seelster @ Delaware but these days I look for the mute button.Comment
