Wallco NHL GOLD (+453 units in 6 years)

[alexknyc]

For example last year
v1 fades would be 141-81
v2 plays 60-23

So if you bet a small percentage of your bankroll you should be able to profit more safely, UNLESS the juice is so ridiculous it makes it to where it wouldn't work ?

Look upthread at post 5393 and check out the amount each losing series lost. This system has a huge amount of juice.

[Ri¢h Bank$]

If I understand your question correctly, it would depend on the number of A games winning vs. the number of B wins, C wins and outright losses.

Because this is a high juice system, it would require an extremely large (and improbable) number of A bet wins to be profitable-- since B bet wins, C bet wins and outright losses are all money losers in your scenario. Given the system's previous results, it seems unlikely to be profitable.

For example last year
v1 fades would be 141-81
v2 plays 60-23

So if you bet a small percentage of your bankroll you should be able to profit more safely, UNLESS the juice is so ridiculous it makes it to where it wouldn't work ?

[Wallco99]

You've probably been asked this before ......

Have you done a study where u bet every bet (A through C) to win +1u ?

So I mean

A bet to win 1u
A bet loses, B bet to win 1u
etc

No covering loses by doubling up n then some ?

Would it be profitable or lose due to juice ?

NO.

[Wallco99]

Wallco,
You say that you use the final lines from scoresandodds.com. I however am having trouble finding NHL odds on the site. I can only find them displayed like this for example:

5.5u35 -215.

So my question is, what is the other money line odds for the other team? Do you have another page where you can see both home/away line?

Thanks!

Click on the "line movements" for any given game and it will show you the odds for both teams. The puck lines are both shown on the main screen anyway. Since you are never playing "dog" M/L, the fact that the dog team's M/L doesn't appear on the main screen shouldn't matter anyway, unless it is a close line game, like -105/-105 or -110/-110.

[alexknyc]

You've probably been asked this before ......

Have you done a study where u bet every bet (A through C) to win +1u ?

So I mean

A bet to win 1u
A bet loses, B bet to win 1u
etc

No covering loses by doubling up n then some ?

Would it be profitable or lose due to juice ?

If I understand your question correctly, it would depend on the number of A games winning vs. the number of B wins, C wins and outright losses.

Because this is a high juice system, it would require an extremely large (and improbable) number of A bet wins to be profitable-- since B bet wins, C bet wins and outright losses are all money losers in your scenario. Given the system's previous results, it seems unlikely to be profitable.

[Ri¢h Bank$]

Backtests are posted.

You've probably been asked this before ......

Have you done a study where u bet every bet (A through C) to win +1u ?

So I mean

A bet to win 1u
A bet loses, B bet to win 1u
etc

No covering loses by doubling up n then some ?

Would it be profitable or lose due to juice ?

[TimeTraveler75]

Wallco,
You say that you use the final lines from scoresandodds.com. I however am having trouble finding NHL odds on the site. I can only find them displayed like this for example:

5.5u35 -215.

So my question is, what is the other money line odds for the other team? Do you have another page where you can see both home/away line?

Thanks!

This very own website has odds on Hockey and showing money lines, here http://www.sportsbookreview.com/bett...ds/nhl-hockey/

[dlinx90]

confused about odds

Wallco,
You say that you use the final lines from scoresandodds.com. I however am having trouble finding NHL odds on the site. I can only find them displayed like this for example:

5.5u35 -215.

So my question is, what is the other money line odds for the other team? Do you have another page where you can see both home/away line?

Thanks!

[Ri¢h Bank$]

Hello Wallco. I am Rich Banks, but u can call me Dick

I am looking forward to following and tailing this.

Looks like it's due this year.

[Smoothieopath]

Thanks for posting the system.

madcold, regarding KHL, I suppose the results will be worse than NHL, as KHL is quite unbalanced. Teams like SKA and CSKA will be winning against teams like Kunlun and Cherepovets no matter how long their winning streak is. I would suggest considering the matchup (hard/easy) into the system.

[leafs_ducks]

what was the final numbers for this year?

[Wallco99]

Hey Wallco, don't you mind if I'll test your system for KHL games?
The KHL season just started and I'd like to check if your system is suitable for russian hockey too.

Go for it.

[madcold]

Hey Wallco, don't you mind if I'll test your system for KHL games?
The KHL season just started and I'd like to check if your system is suitable for russian hockey too.

[Wallco99]

Backtests are posted.

[BettingWagon]

Hello,
I would be curious to know how many bets in total have been placed in over 6 years? If it is over 2000 (I have no idea)?

Then a bad year should mean nothing, just simple long-term variance.
If this system has proved to be profitable on over 2000 bets then we may be into something really interesting.

[Andy3568]

Penguins lose. I guess the final total on the system is -46.58 units.

V1: -106.58
V2: +60

[danhimal]

Final series closes out on 4/9/16 but I opted to steer clear of the Penguins.

I'll be out until next week so this post will conclude the season for me boys. Will be hanging out in the MLB section here on out, good luck to all!

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 201-9A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-47.58 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 1 (-5.35) units

(4/7/16):
#208LOttawa (+1½)Lv1l(B)L- Win
#209LWashington (M/L)Lv1l(B)L- Loss

v1 Fades
(A) 102-50
(B) 27-22
(C) 12-9
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u), (-47.24 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 41-19
(B) 15-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


There are no system plays for (4/8/16)


#209LResumes v1l(C) on 4/9/16


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 200-9A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-48.58 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 2 (-4.40) units

(4/6/16):
#211LEdmonton (M/L)Lv1l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 102-50
(B) 26-21
(C) 12-9
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u), (-47.24 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 41-19
(B) 15-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/7/16):
#208LFlorida @ Ottawa (+1½)Lv1l(B)L(7:35 pm EST)
#209LPittsburgh @ Washington (M/L)Lv1l(B)L(7:05 pm EST)


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 199-9A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-49.58 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 2 (-4.40) units

(4/5/16):
#205LNashville (M/L)Lv2l(B)L- Win
#208LMontreal (+1½)Lv1l(A)L- Loss
#209LOttawa (+1½)Lv1l(A)L- Loss
#210LColorado (+1½)Lv2l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 101-50
(B) 26-21
(C) 12-9
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u), (-47.24 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 41-19
(B) 15-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/6/16):
#211LVancouver @ Edmonton (M/L)Lv1l(A)L(7:05 pm EST)

#208LResumes v1l(B) on 4/7/16
#209LResumes v1l(B) on 4/7/16


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 197-9A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-51.58 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 1 (-1.15) units

(4/4/16):
#207LN.Y. Rangers (M/L)Lv2l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 101-48
(B) 26-21
(C) 12-9
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u), (-47.24 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 40-19
(B) 14-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/5/16):
#205LColorado @ Nashville (M/L)Lv2l(B)L(8:05 pm EST)
#208LFlorida @ Montreal (+1½)Lv1l(A)L(7:35 pm EST)
#209LPittsburgh @ Ottawa (+1½)Lv1l(A)L(7:35 pm EST)
#210LColorado (+1½) @ NashvilleLv2l(A)L(8:05 pm EST)


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 196-9A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-52.58 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 1 (-1.15) units

(4/3/16):
#200LPhiladelphia (+1½)Lv1l(C)L- Loss
#204LAnaheim (M/L)Lv1l(B)L- Win
#206LPittsburgh (M/L)Lv1l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 101-48
(B) 26-21
(C) 12-9
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u), (-47.24 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 39-19
(B) 14-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/4/16):
#207LN.Y. Rangers (M/L) @ ColumbusLv2l(A)L(7:05 pm EST)

#205LResumes v2l(B) on 4/5/16


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[Andy3568]

My bankroll was demolished by Minnesota a few days ago and now Pittsburgh did the same thing

This season has been a disaster all around. I follow multiple systems, and usually only one is mildly negative and the others more than make up for it. This year it's the opposite.

[madcold]

My bankroll was demolished by Minnesota a few days ago and now Pittsburgh did the same thing

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 194-8A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-7.34 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 3 (-16.05) units

(4/2/16):
#200LN.Y. Islanders (+1½)Lv1l(B)L- Loss
#203LPittsburgh (M/L)Lv1l(A)L- Win
#204LLos Angeles (M/L)Lv1l(A)L- Loss
#205LNashville (M/L)Lv2l(A)L- Loss

v1 Fades
(A) 100-48
(B) 25-21
(C) 12-8
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 39-19
(B) 14-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/3/16):
#200LPhiladelphia (+1½) @ PittsburghLv1l(C)L(5:05 pm EST)
#204LDallas @ Anaheim (M/L)Lv1l(B)L(9:05 pm EST)
#206LPhiladelphia @ Pittsburgh (M/L)Lv1l(A)L(5:05 pm EST)

#205LResumes v2l(B) on 4/5/16


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[danhimal]

Sorry for the late post fellas, had a bit too much to drink last night.

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 193-8A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-8.34 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 1 (-2.60) units

(4/1/16):
#193LBoston (+1½)Lv1l(C)L- Win
#202LVancouver (+1½)Lv1l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 99-47
(B) 25-20
(C) 12-8
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 39-18
(B) 14-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/2/16):
#200LPittsburgh @ N.Y. Islanders (+1½)Lv1l(B)L(1:05 pm EST)
#203LPittsburgh (M/L) @ N.Y. IslandersLv1l(A)L(1:05 pm EST)
#204LDallas @ Los Angeles (M/L)Lv1l(A)L(4:05 pm EST)
#205LSan Jose @ Nashville (M/L)Lv2l(A)L(8:05 pm EST)


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[mrginandtonic]

If BOS is unable to cover tonight then NHL Gold would have locked in 3 years of losing in a row.
System was doing so well until 3 weeks ago and then all of a sudden went to the shitter.

I'm pretty confident that Boston will cover. But you are right, maybe we need to add some kind of additional filter

[skyscrapers]

If BOS is unable to cover tonight then NHL Gold would have locked in 3 years of losing in a row.
System was doing so well until 3 weeks ago and then all of a sudden went to the shitter.

[CJ]

Delete, posted late.

[danhimal]

Wallco NHL GOLD
2015-16 System to Date: 191-8A(fin. series)
SystemlProfit/Loss:-10.34 units A(fin. series)
Current Open Series: 2 (-6.70) units

(3/31/16):
#199LColumbus (+1½)Lv2l(A)L- Win
#200LNashville (+1½)Lv1l(A)L- Loss
#201LOttawa (+1½)Lv1l(A)L- Win

v1 Fades
(A) 98-47
(B) 25-20
(C) 11-8
Losses: MON (-25.68 u), EDM (-14.41 u), WAS (-22.76 u), CHI (-20.56 u), CHI (-37.64 u), STL (-19.57 u), PIT (-22.84 u), MIN (-37.88 u)

v2 Plays
(A) 39-18
(B) 14-4
(C) 4-0
Losses: None


Games for (4/1/16):
#193LBoston (+1½) @ St. LouisLv1l(C)L(8:05 pm EST)
#202LVancouver (+1½) @ AnaheimLv1l(A)L(10:05 pm EST)

#200LResumes v1l(B) on 4/2/16


Note: The lines I have listed were the current lines at the time of my post and may not reflect the final lines used to determine wins & losses, or line changes later in the day. Get proper line if different than the one I have posted, based on the criteria that I have listed below.

Do not place any wagers on teams unless you are sure your team is the dog or favorite.The team underlined and highlighted blue is the team we are betting on, regardless of v1 or v2. If you play the closer line games too early, you may be overpaying for a loss if you play the P/L and should have been on the M/L, or lose a game that you would have won had you been on the (M/L) instead of the (+1½). We will always play the M/L if the team we are betting on is the M/L favorite or in games when the line is (-110/-110) or (-105/-105), and always play the (+1½) if the team we are betting on is a M/L dog. ALL results will be based on this principle. If it is a close line game, you may want to wait til closer to game time to place your wager so you know whether or not we are on the (+1½) or the (M/L). You may need to buy the alternate line (+1½) on occasion if the M/L dog team we are betting on is the (-1½) team with your individual book. All lines and standings are based on FINAL lines fromScoresandOdds.com/. If one of the teams we are playing switches from a favorite to a dog, or vice versa, after my initial post, make sure you get the appropriate line if it differs from what I have posted. The wins and losses will be based on who is the M/L dog team onScoresandOdds.com/ final lines.
System rules and backtest can be found in posts #4197 & #4198

[Firegreek]

Cool

Hey your basketball system is killing it. Thanks walco. Do we have any hockey for tonight?

[Wallco99]

what is chase 110 you speak of?

My basketball system. Which at the moment, is outperforming this one.

[skyscrapers]

what is chase 110 you speak of?

http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/nba-basketball-betting/3164275-wallcos-chase-110-a.html

[rake922]

Chase 110 is keeping me in the green.

what is chase 110 you speak of?