It's Not Hard To See Why Pags Has Chosen To Leave...

**BigBollocks** · 11-21-07, 02:49 PM

I REALLY hope this thread is left in this section (it ought to be stickied). As SBR continues to grow, there are some trends that are naturally going to happen that aren't for the best. However, I genuinely believe that the growth of SBR is attributable to the opportunity to talk to superior minds, not troublemakers and small timers. If I'm wrong, it's time to say au revoir as well....

**vanman** · 11-21-07, 02:57 PM

Originally posted by BigBollocks

This forum is going to absolute shit, but at least it's getting there fast. You've got guys like the shark losing every play he makes, but if that's not enough he goes in and heckles everyone else. He's told at least a dozen people on here that they're going to lose, and after being wrong every time he comes back and says he's really not betting anything anyways. I don't know what's better --- that you've got guys like him with no shame who just come on here to run off our best posters, or that the moderators don't even seem to give a damn. So what happens? You replace our best and most serious cappers with children who don't even bet.

I also love that instead of discussing games with professionals, I now get to talk with people on here about being a fan of schools. I could go on any of my alma-mater forums for that. I play to win, and win big. Instead of discussing the Bama-Auburn game in detail, I get told that I'm a "traitor" for betting Bama, or that I shouldn't bet on Bama because Sportscenter ran a negative piece on Saban saying insensitive things at a press conference. What the bloody **** is going on here? I'm handicapping for some serious money, not waving pom poms.

Anyone else noticing a substantial decline as this season has progressed?

Got to agree with you on that BB.

**Cougar Bait** · 11-21-07, 02:59 PM

Originally posted by BigBollocks

This forum is going to absolute shit, but at least it's getting there fast. You've got guys like the shark losing every play he makes, but if that's not enough he goes in and heckles everyone else. He's told at least a dozen people on here that they're going to lose, and after being wrong every time he comes back and says he's really not betting anything anyways. I don't know what's better --- that you've got guys like him with no shame who just come on here to run off our best posters, or that the moderators don't even seem to give a damn. So what happens? You replace our best and most serious cappers with children who don't even bet.

I also love that instead of discussing games with professionals, I now get to talk with people on here about being a fan of schools. I could go on any of my alma-mater forums for that. I play to win, and win big. Instead of discussing the Bama-Auburn game in detail, I get told that I'm a "traitor" for betting Bama, or that I shouldn't bet on Bama because Sportscenter ran a negative piece on Saban saying insensitive things at a press conference. What the bloody **** is going on here? I'm handicapping for some serious money, not waving pom poms.

Anyone else noticing a substantial decline as this season has progressed?

I've only been around for a little while, but I have noticed in just the last three weeks or so less and less critical thinking and more and more garbage. I haven't been around long enough to really know what it was like at the beginning of the season, but I come on this site to win money. I like talking to others who have the same intention. I know I don't have all the answers when it comes to capping college football, and I believe sharing thoughts on games in this format is well worth the time and effort. I won't blame Pags if he leaves, but if he does it will be because of weak-minded fools that don't deserve the time of day. And that...is...pathetic.

**FIVEFINGERSDEEP** · 11-21-07, 03:56 PM

I'M A NEW-BE HERE TOO, BUT I ALSO AGREE WITH WHAT YOU HAVE SAID. I'VE BEEN READING THE FORUM FOR 6-8 MONTHS BUT ONLY RECENTLY REGSITERED TO CHAT ON FORUMS. I'VE RECENTLY SEEN THE SHARK POSTING ALOT BUT IT SEEMS LIKE HE IS MOSTLY BASHING PPL. I REALLY WISH A MOD WOULD GET INVOLVED.

**pags11** · 11-21-07, 04:12 PM

bigbollocks,

excellent thoughts here...unfortunately, I've been around here a long time and I've learned SBR has adopted the "throw shit against the wall and see if some of it sticks" approach...they haven't gone about building their forum the right way...rather than protect sharp, well-respected cappers they allow a free-for-all soap opera type forum in hopes that it will generate traffic...they have also hired moderators that are more interested in going into people's thread to tell them what opposing games they are on, rather than police the forum properly...when confronted, they point the finger saying that it's one moderator's responsibility to kick people out...that is ****ing bullshit and they absolutely know it, grow a ****ing pair of balls and if one of the so called "kick out" moderators isn't around, kick the mother ****ers out yourself...I like Bill, he's a good dude that I've spoken to on numerous occasions and has helped me out with a couple of situations...it's him I feel most loyal to...however, with all due respect to SBR John and ganchrow, I'm just not sure about the rest of the "crew" around here...DO THE RIGHT THING SBR AND PULL YOUR HEADS OUT OF YOUR ASSES...

**Dark Horse** · 11-21-07, 04:40 PM

Ignore button is a must on this forum. It takes the place of 'policing' moderators. On the downside, this only avoids individual annoyances and still allows the injections of poison any forum seems to undergo from time to time. In such an atmosphere you can forget a focus on sharing valuable capping information, but I doubt that this is the purpose of SBR.

**Willie Bee** · 11-21-07, 05:01 PM

You know guys, I've got pretty thick skin, but I'm growing tired of being told personally or SBR in general to pull our heads out of our asses. When I move little pissing matches to private, I'm too heavy-handed and SBR is violating everyone's First Amendment rights. When I don't move some of the jackass, pot-stirring posts, then I've got my head up my ass and the whole damn forum is going to hell.

I moved two threads yesterday because of the "You suck, no you suck" dialogue. And guess what? That's right, both of the threads were reported. See that little white triangle with the exclamation point in it down under each poster's avatar? Next time someone comes into a thread simply stirring up sh¡t, press that little button and all of us moderators will get an e-mail. I'm sorry that SBR can't employ a moderator to tail each and every poster around and move those posts/threads the instant they appear, so give us some time to get to it and we'll get the crap moved when it's warranted.

In the meantime, try the ignore feature for the more childish Jim Rome wannabe's on the site.

Best of luck to each and everyone.

**Dark Horse** · 11-21-07, 05:19 PM

The triangle defense! Didn't know about that.

**mv09** · 11-21-07, 05:30 PM

Greek, Shark, and others come to mind.

**atakdog** · 11-21-07, 06:32 PM

Only a few months on here, so mabe my opinion doesn't count, but I want to add to the clamor for heavier-handed moderation. Willie, I'll never bitch about your moving or moderating a thread; I want intelligent discussion, not crap.

Unfortunately, it's more than just newbies like shark et al, it's also long-time posters posting rants and flames that have little or nothing to do with sports handicapping and plenty to do with egos. I am disappointed, all the more because the competing forums don't seem a lot better. I had thought I'd find good information here; while I still do, it's getting more and more tiresome sorting through the drivel.

SB mods: please crack down. The ignore button is not a substitute for active moderation.

**regularguy** · 11-21-07, 06:40 PM

It's an anonymous forum, open to anyone. By its nature, it will be in the bottom of the gutter at times and there will be flashes of genius at times. (By the way, Hell, you may want to skip some of my late-night posts.) But ... well ... I still like it. I guess I try to keep in mind that it is what it is.

I try to just be amused by the knuckleheads. There are some great characters here.

The mods probably do their best. Moving threads is probably a good thing though. I like the idea of trying as well as possible to make this a forum for thoughtful handicapping info.

All that said, I certainly understand why someone like pags, who puts in major effort and contributes so much -- and has such an impressive established record -- does not want to turn on his computer and take a bashing.

I'm still rather new on this forum, and I am an amateur, but enthusiastic, capper. This is just my 2 cents.

**Dark Horse** · 11-21-07, 06:50 PM

If you look at the standard set by SBR in terms of watch dogging, sportsbook info, free lines, Ganchalator, etc, then this forum is clearly not up to that level. Not even close. Unfulfilled potential? Yes. But this forum has an advertising angle, so quantity is probably more important than quality. If that quantity is necessary to pay for the free SBR services that's really not a bad deal. So the ignore button is the best solution, if you ask me.

The thing I don't like on forums is rudeness, because it has a ripple effect. Ignore is perfect for that, and you couldn't really moderate it anyway.

**area51steve** · 11-21-07, 07:02 PM

Originally posted by BigBollocks

This forum is going to absolute shit, but at least it's getting there fast. You've got guys like the shark losing every play he makes, but if that's not enough he goes in and heckles everyone else. He's told at least a dozen people on here that they're going to lose, and after being wrong every time he comes back and says he's really not betting anything anyways. I don't know what's better --- that you've got guys like him with no shame who just come on here to run off our best posters, or that the moderators don't even seem to give a damn. So what happens? You replace our best and most serious cappers with children who don't even bet.

I also love that instead of discussing games with professionals, I now get to talk with people on here about being a fan of schools. I could go on any of my alma-mater forums for that. I play to win, and win big. Instead of discussing the Bama-Auburn game in detail, I get told that I'm a "traitor" for betting Bama, or that I shouldn't bet on Bama because Sportscenter ran a negative piece on Saban saying insensitive things at a press conference. What the bloody **** is going on here? I'm handicapping for some serious money, not waving pom poms.

Anyone else noticing a substantial decline as this season has progressed?

Good post BB.. I agree..

**djeffectz** · 11-21-07, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by Willie Bee

You know guys, I've got pretty thick skin, but I'm growing tired of being told personally or SBR in general to pull our heads out of our asses. When I move little pissing matches to private, I'm too heavy-handed and SBR is violating everyone's First Amendment rights. When I don't move some of the jackass, pot-stirring posts, then I've got my head up my ass and the whole damn forum is going to hell.

I moved two threads yesterday because of the "You suck, no you suck" dialogue. And guess what? That's right, both of the threads were reported. See that little white triangle with the exclamation point in it down under each poster's avatar? Next time someone comes into a thread simply stirring up sh¡t, press that little button and all of us moderators will get an e-mail. I'm sorry that SBR can't employ a moderator to tail each and every poster around and move those posts/threads the instant they appear, so give us some time to get to it and we'll get the crap moved when it's warranted.

In the meantime, try the ignore feature for the more childish Jim Rome wannabe's on the site.

Best of luck to each and everyone.

Willie has been very helpfull to me including bigboydan, Willie even emailed me to help me clear a problem on here..

**The Seer** · 11-21-07, 09:53 PM

I try not to let someone behind a keyboard wind me up. I don't pay any attention to the jackasses, I just ignore them.

**hawk 5** · 11-21-07, 11:16 PM

Seen it coming during the baseball season. The complete disrespect for other posters is out of hand. Don't know the answer just know I don't post near as often.

**BuddyBear** · 11-22-07, 01:41 AM

Lot of very weak posters here these days. Most guys on here are simply tailing picks of other posters. Which is fine but problematic in the long run. If the poster has a good weekend, it's all roses and pie....but if the poster has a bad weekend, watch out. Guys create aliases to criticize, start insulting, and calling out the poster.

Unfortunately the mods (while all nice guys) are very weak on here. They are basically turning a blind eye to everything that is going on and instead hoping to get more people to view the site. They realize that conflict sells/attracts. Idiots like the Shark, The Greek, John Layfield, etc...are starting to dominate. No way in the world the Shark should have more than 2 posts in his threads let alone 50+.

**BuddyBear** · 11-22-07, 01:44 AM

I think all of us on here owe a huge debt of gratitude to Pags for his season long posting of plays. The epic winning season was a bonus as commentary/insights on games was every bit as valuable as each of his plays. Moreover, he addressed every single comment/question that was made in his thread. Also consider that he posted in every single thread of anyone who posted plays--newbie or veteran--with the same enthusiasm and respect.

Posters like these help build character to a forum. To see a poster like the Shark receive as many views/posts in his thread as Pags sort of tells you the direction the forum is going right now. Not good at all....

**SBR Lou** · 11-22-07, 01:56 AM

With all due respect, if somebody wants to "quit the forum" because of some kids heckling them -- so long.

It doesn't matter how long you've been here, or what % you're hitting for any given season or what your track record is over multiple seasons. Everyone gets heckled or has some dumb comments made to them from time to time.

There are random idiots who patrol every thread, to suggest the entire infrastructure of SBR is changed to accommodate your needs seems a little selfish. Sure others may agree with you in principle, but you can't go banning every random schmuck who pisses you off.

In the real world, you deal with people you would rather avoid, SBR is no different. We all won't agree or see eye to eye, and there will be pissing contests from time to time, but that's just the nature of forums. If things get out of hand, they are moved.

If someone bothers you, hit the ignore button. Focus on the games, the people you do get along with, and stop taking yourselves so seriously.

**imgv94** · 11-22-07, 02:35 AM

Great post BB.

While we concentrate on the few bozo's we have on here let's not forget there are a lot of sharp fellers on here as well.

We definitely could use some more. Good posters are hard to find.

**isetcap** · 11-22-07, 05:20 AM

pags will be missed...

**Dead Money** · 11-22-07, 11:04 AM

Its a shame.

I wish Pags wouldn't let people bother him so much, but you can't expect sbr to babysit everyone.

This place is very diverse, alot of good info and alot of bs. Once you have everyone in the correct category you are fine.
Sucks that a great capper has left, hopefully he will be back someday.
Opinions are like assholes, everyone has one. You can't let them bother you to the point that it drives you away. I thought that many people respected Pags and his opinions, sucks that he let a few assclowns get the best of him..

**remaxagnt** · 11-22-07, 11:31 AM

Pags Please Come Back. Is That Why Razz Left?

**HAPPY BOY** · 11-22-07, 12:05 PM

shiit man, I hope Pags does not leave. His write ups are a must here. Pags if u read this dont let some crap heads here run u off dude. Guarantee you are appreciated here by the true gamblers. I gave u my opinion the other day and I'd hate to think you'd leave because of last weeks critics. You have friends here that appreciate u man. Those are the people u should care about. God I almost fel like a homo now. Anyways get ur ass back in here Pags, in life the older u get the more u learn to ignore the assholes in life. Trust me.

**Reverse** · 11-22-07, 01:26 PM

Originally posted by BigBollocks

This forum is going to absolute shit, but at least it's getting there fast. You've got guys like the shark losing every play he makes, but if that's not enough he goes in and heckles everyone else. He's told at least a dozen people on here that they're going to lose, and after being wrong every time he comes back and says he's really not betting anything anyways. I don't know what's better --- that you've got guys like him with no shame who just come on here to run off our best posters, or that the moderators don't even seem to give a damn. So what happens? You replace our best and most serious cappers with children who don't even bet.

I also love that instead of discussing games with professionals, I now get to talk with people on here about being a fan of schools. I could go on any of my alma-mater forums for that. I play to win, and win big. Instead of discussing the Bama-Auburn game in detail, I get told that I'm a "traitor" for betting Bama, or that I shouldn't bet on Bama because Sportscenter ran a negative piece on Saban saying insensitive things at a press conference. What the bloody **** is going on here? I'm handicapping for some serious money, not waving pom poms.

Anyone else noticing a substantial decline as this season has progressed?

I agree 100% the teams i most bet on are teams that i like. I know my team well and i know their tenedencies. The shark is the biggest loser ive seen online, but its enevitable that dumbasses are going to be on here running their mouths. I wish the mod would ban his ip

**VolinArizona** · 11-22-07, 01:30 PM

The main problem I see isn't the heckling from the idiots, it's WHY they're heckling.

A lot of guys here who trail picks only trail someone who had a good weekend. They don't understand the variance in sports betting. They think a winning pick is always a good pick, and they think a losing pick is always a bad pick. But that's so far from the truth.

Pags started the season poorly, IIRC, but he's been the most consistent capper here for a long time, from what I've heard.

For those posters who just read the above paragraphs and knew it already, move on, you already know it.

For those that didn't know it or disagree, you should stop posting and start reading. The final score of a game is the way you win a bet. However, the final score is the last thing I look at when capping games. Why? Because it's misleading. When a team gets 2 non-offensive TDs and wins by 10, it's a misleading final score. Yardage numbers are better indicators of how a game went, because they are les volatile (more honest than a score).

It sucks pags isn't posting plays anymore. He was one of, if not the best capper this season.

**flyingillini** · 11-22-07, 02:08 PM

Couldn't agree with you more.

**joeygats** · 11-22-07, 02:22 PM

i like pags as much as the next but if hes praised when hes hot y cant he be criticised when he loses just a thought but i still think he is a great capper and will be missed gl and best wishes

**imgv94** · 11-22-07, 03:23 PM

You guys notice poster isetcap stalking pags right?

It's posters like isetcap,owned,tacomax,the shark and classicbeaver who drive pags away.

**HAPPY BOY** · 11-22-07, 07:31 PM

Originally posted by joeygats

i like pags as much as the next but if hes praised when hes hot y cant he be criticised when he loses just a thought but i still think he is a great capper and will be missed gl and best wishes

Joey, no need to do either, praise or critize. look at pags write ups as Jim Kramer giving in sights on stocks. he writes up factual info, then u as an educated investor/gambler, make a selection. Don't shoot the messenger bro. listen to what Pags is rattlting about THEN AS AN EDUCATED GAMBLER make achoice. Then if u loose stick ur tail between ur leg, loick ur wounds and A: quit gambling B: stop playing Pags selections as gospel. C: use Pags as one of several educated lines of info, make ur own plays and shut the fvck up if u loose!!

**regularguy** · 11-23-07, 12:59 AM

Well put, Happy Boy.

**dwaechte** · 11-23-07, 01:10 AM

As a relative newb around here, I can't speak to the past quality of the forum.

But, I will say this:

All this shit is very, very typical. It's the internet. Shit happens, people have egos, and the internet is the perfect release because you don't have to show your face. It happens in every forum, and every online community. There's not really too good of a way to stop it.

The best way to deal with it IMO, is to ignore it. Personally I don't find it too hard to sift through the crap to get to the useful or interesting things. At the same time, if others do have a problem with it, I can understand that as well.

**BuddyBear** · 11-23-07, 01:14 AM

Originally posted by remaxagnt

Pags Please Come Back. Is That Why Razz Left?

Actually I talked with Razz on the phone the other day and he is just busy with work. He'll back soon, don't worry.....

**BuddyBear** · 11-23-07, 01:16 AM

Originally posted by imgv94

You guys notice poster isetcap stalking pags right?

It's posters like isetcap,owned,tacomax,the shark and classicbeaver who drive pags away.

Istecap and Tacomax are major lowlifes...The Shark is just an idiot craving for attention. I don't know classicbeaver.

What did Owned do? I never had a problem with him?