Steinbrechers wasted millions

**goldengoat** · 05-09-06, 07:47 PM

damn i was gonna bet the sox too

i knew randy was pretty much done and only occassionally pitches well but now i hear he is losing his confidence

the end is near for randy

this may be his last year

**bigboydan** · 05-09-06, 08:07 PM

goat, i think he has one more year left on his contract. i highly doubt he walks away from 16 million dollars next year.

**The Great One** · 05-09-06, 08:24 PM

Steinbrenner is so damn overated. he spends all this money year in and year out, trades away prospects of the future usuallu for big name guys that are well past their prime and people act like he's something.

Just another case of people not getting it. I see it everyday.

Just like Joe Torre. Why does anyone give him credit? Real tough to be a baseball manager. The "coaching" is very minimal at this level. Not to mention, you have about 7 people to share it with. You have a hitting coach, pitching coach, 1st and 3rd base coach, bullpen coach, and bench coach. It's so sad. Baseball managers deserve zero credit.

I remeber reading a thread on here awhile back saying it wasn't long ago where people didn't think blacks ciould be baseball managers, but now those people are no where to be heard from. i had to LOL at that one. As if they are some kind of genious or something.

Here's their big decision of the night. "Bring in the lefty" Real freakin tough.

As to Steinbrenner, for what he spends, he has to ask himself daily about his smarts. It's no secret he'll spend a fortune, but it sure doesn't show for what they ashould have.

You could compare them to the Knicks except at least the Yanks make the postseason.

**Razz** · 05-10-06, 12:37 AM

Baseball managers aren't so much important for their decision-making skills or their teaching, but for managing their players, which is more difficult on a team of celebrities and big egos like the Yankees. Torre deserves plenty of credit.

**tacomax** · 05-10-06, 07:46 PM

Just saw the highlights and was impressed at Ortiz scoring from second base on a single to left field. From the way he hauled his fat ass around to score, you know they must have been waving a hamburger at home plate.

**Dark Horse** · 05-10-06, 07:55 PM

Lol

**The Great One** · 05-10-06, 09:23 PM

Originally posted by Razz

Baseball managers aren't so much important for their decision-making skills or their teaching, but for managing their players, which is more difficult on a team of celebrities and big egos like the Yankees. Torre deserves plenty of credit.

Bull sh it. it's not a team game. How are A-rod and Jeter going to clash. Neither one of them depend on the other. The ego problem was solved when A-rod moved to 3rd. When they are at bat, it's just them up there, no other team mate. When they are in the field, it's obvious what to do.

I don't buy thatargument at all. Any moron that has half a clue how the game is played can be a MLB manager. Just like GM, it's about being well connected to get the million dollar cake job.

And for my first sentence, let me claify something. It's a team game in terms of winning and losing, but its an individual game as far as performance. It's different than basketball and football, especially football. You can have the greatest WR in the history of the game, but if you have Aaron Brooks as your quarterback, it won't show.

In baseball, you could have Alex Rodriguez on the rangers and he could put up fantastic numbers, but it doesn't translate into team success.

Anyone can do that Torre does. There does not have to be alot of team chemistry. If you want to get down to it, they don't have to even talk much except on shallow fly balls and even a ball hit between them, they'll both be hustling to it.

**Razz** · 05-10-06, 09:25 PM

Originally posted by The Great One

Bull sh it. it's not a team game. How are A-rod and Jeter going to clash. Neither one of them depend on the other. The ego problem was solved when A-rod moved to 3rd. When they are at bat, it's just them up there, no other team mate. When they are in the field, it's obvious what to do.

I don't buy thatargument at all. Any moron that has half a clue how the game is played can be a MLB manager. Just like GM, it's about being well connected to get the million dollar cake job.

And for my first sentence, let me claify something. It's a team game in terms of winning and losing, but its an individual game as far as performance. It's different than basketball and football, especially football. You can have the greatest WR in the history of the game, but if you have Aaron Brooks as your quarterback, it won't show.

In baseball, you could have Alex Rodriguez on the rangers and he could put up fantastic numbers, but it doesn't translate into team success.

Anyone can do that Torre does. There does not have to be alot of team chemistry. If you want to get down to it, they don't have to even talk much except on shallow fly balls and even a ball hit between them, they'll both be hustling to it.

No one who has played baseball at any level above coach pitch would agree with that post.

**The Great One** · 05-10-06, 10:54 PM

Originally posted by Razz

No one who has played baseball at any level above coach pitch would agree with that post.

LOL. I played baseball at a very competetive level for over 10 years. You have to bring something to the table more than that with The Great One.

And before this gets out of hand like some other stuff does. let me say, I actually like your posts and your picks, but have a major disagreement with you regarding this.

I just wanted to say that so it doesn't become a pissing contest like some other twits on here like to do. I have no desire to call you names unless you attack me, then its on.

Prove me wrong.

I remember a couple years ago, someone said close to the same thing you just said to me regarding football and the NFL draft. because I say, once you know you are not going to make the playoffs, you should just tank the season, play guys you will use for next year and get the 1st pick in the draft. They then said what you said to me. To me though, thats a business decision, plain and simple. I know it's alittle off topic, but that is when the last time someone said to me what you did.

I don't beleive what I said is true in all sports, but I especially do in baseball and feel very strong about that.

There are about 7 coaches. You already admitted there is little to no real strategy involved and these 7 people are their to manage egos? Come on.

Like I said, prove me wrong.

**Razz** · 05-10-06, 11:30 PM

We agree that there is little importance in managers from a strategic perspective. Hell, the most criticized move in recent years (Grady Little leaving Pedro in the ALCS Game 7 three years ago) was, in my opinion, the right move.

Trust me, I can see your point in the first post. But, it's easier for me to agree with you that anyone can do Buddy Bell's job (Kansas City), where if he wins 65 games, he's been successful.

When you look at a team with a $200 million+ payroll and at least five future Hall of Fame players, you can be sure there are egos involved. Obviously DJ isn't a problem with that, but you may remember Shef speaking out last year, something about who "the true MVP of the team was (himself)." Torre had that whole thing downplayed within a couple days.

Also, the Giambi steroid controversy. Yankees fans love him now, and no one really hates him. How much of this was Torre's doing, I don't know, but he at least had a part in it.

He also fought to keep Bernie in NY, which seems to be paying dividends. Besides DJ, Bernie is as important in the clubhouse as anyone, and he has been a huge influence on Robby Cano.

Torre also has stayed the manager in New York longer than anyone under Steinbrenner. He is doing so many things right - handling the constant pressure from the Boss, and the NY media. I think he is a very important member of the Yankees, and he has earned his respect.

The NFL draft is besides the point, but yes, there is definitely an argument that can be made for tanking games - or at least playing backups - both with the intent of losing, and so that they have experience for later in their careers.
The downside is that your players would lose respect for you if you made it obvious, and it's a lot easier to keep your job going 7-9 than 4-12.

**The Great One** · 05-11-06, 12:52 PM

As far as Giambi is concerned, if youare going to give credit to a coach, it should be Don Mattingly who has turned his swing around.

I just don't buy what you say. Sheffield and Derrick jeter could hate each other. So what? So that means when Sheffield goes to the plate, he's going to strike out? Or if gets a ball hit to him in leftfield. he's going to tank it? Of course not.

Steinbrenners paying Torre a high price if his job is just "to keep the peace".

I'm sure there are egos involved. In fact, I know there are. But, performance is individualized in basball. Jeter can be on second and Sheffield gets a single. Thery hate each other. How is this going to affect the outcome?

If The Yankees play well, he should not get the credit and if the yankees play like shi t, he should not take the fall.

Baseball managers the most overated "coaches" there are. Like i said, an average person with baseball intelligence could do this million dollar cake job.

**Razz** · 05-11-06, 02:00 PM

Well, you're a Colts fan, correct? A lot of Colts fans blame Dungy for the loss to Pittsburgh - I think, but am not sure, that you said something to that effect.
Dungy has more assistant coaches than Torre, and Dungy hardly does anything with the offense. The defense wasn't the problem against Pitt, it was the offense's inability to pick up the blitz. Moore should be taking the blame, if anyone.

If Shef and DJ hated each other, their on-field play would struggle. Players play better when they are relaxed. Take AJ Piersynski. In San Francisco, he had a verbal fight with Bonds, and it affected his on-field performance for the worse. The next year, he went to Chicago, got along with his teammates, and was a key member of a WS team.

I just think it's silly to say that managers aren't responsible for any of the blame and/or credit. Maybe it's a fair statement that they are less responsible than any other major sport's leader - though I think the exact same could be said about basketball coaches (until the last two minutes of a game).

**The Great One** · 05-11-06, 05:13 PM

See, thats what I'm saying in a way. Football depends on coaching 20 fold more than baseball. There is a tom more strategy involved in football than baseball. surely, no one would argue that.

Dungy was hired basically just for his defensice knowledge making him really just a defensive coordinator that looks like a head coach to the media. Peyton is the greatest quarterback of all time, but still has waaaay to much say in that organization. The Colts lost that game due to coaching; pure and simple. The Colts have had problems against 3-4 teams( Pats, Chargers, Steelers) more than any other.

You can let Peyton do his thing without giving him the entire team and game. He's not a head coach, he's a player. Also, the problem with the Colts blocking assignment comes on Moore and Howard Mudd. But, Igive Mudd credit because year in and year out he is given 2nd day draft picks or undrafted free agents to make that line what it is. Not the best line, but in general, a very good one. Tarik Glenn is the only 1st rounder and that was in 97 with a mid 1st pick.

Dungy is not strong enough or ernoght of a true leader to get the Colts to where they should be.

Like Isaid though, you can't coompare the baseball coaching to football because football is ridiculously comples as opposedto baseball. Hell, it takes most qurterbacks 3 years before they learn the entire playbook.

If Torre'e job is just to keep ego's in place, it seems Steinbrenner's money would be better spent to have a psychologist as a team manager and not an old man that wants to be like Rudy Giallani. Now there's a man who is glad 9-11 happened because that put his name on the map and he has to know that. Thats how he got his popularity.