A conservative vision for social justice

[guitarjosh]

Listen Josh I wish just once in a while you knew what the fck you are talking about. First, I would gladly pay the price for quality products USA or anywhere. The problem is most of the shit from China is just that shit. In another thread you said USA is still making a ton of stuff or similar words. Of course they are but in comparison to other decades it isn't close. I attempted not too long ago to buy an American made suit. Do you know it is almost impossible? You might find a few made in Canada but very difficult in the USA. I left town and visited a taylor and he told me the same thing. He also sold clothes and said the only item he has no problem getting from the USA today are hats. Oh and I may be mistaken but I think you can buy only one make of blue jeans still made in this country. If I did research I could more than likely find scores of products no longer being produced in this country.

Don't get me wrong, I am all for free trade but god damn it the quality is no longer there in many foreign based imports, especially China. No regulations, it is the old wild west in production in that country. Mark my words if things don't change quickly, and I doubt they will, a great many people will become ill or die from a Chinese or foreign product. But no regulations to you and your kind is a good thing. Amazing but true.

I don't know what you're talking about in poor quality. Most of the stuff I own now is the best I've ever owned. The quality for me is going up while the price is going down.

Why don't you tell us which Chinese made products will hurt or kill so many people.

[guitarjosh]

I'm not for free trade. Sure the world has gotten a better quality of life. (?) I don't mind our companies expanding
overseas to get that market share, but to close down shop here, move over there and ship their shit here duty free?
That's just wrong.

Whole towns have lost businesses where generations of families worked shutting down a thriving local economy.
Mitt Romney and his boys did that to quite a few towns and was the Presidential nominee? Almost 50% voted
for him? Are they stupid? Then we have a few in here who agree with the almighty buck as their country. It's
people like that who have no problem taking money from a baby, screwing over a blind man or taking a retirees
life savings.

You guys go right ahead, buy your cheap foreign made shit and vote Repub, because they are owned by the
corporations who have no patriotism to keep their businesses here. Tearing down the fabric of this country
while saying they are patriots. You guys blame Obama, better look in the mirror and take a good hard look.

It's not wrong when it helps the average consumer and keeps people in business.

Be specific and tell us which towns Mitt Romney destroyed.

[dante1]

I don't know what you're talking about in poor quality. Most of the stuff I own now is the best I've ever owned. The quality for me is going up while the price is going down.

Why don't you tell us which Chinese made products will hurt or kill so many people.

Well Josh first of all I am talented but I am not a soothsayer.

Second most of the stuff you own now if made in China is absolutely second rate to the stuff you owned before, that is unless you picked your original crap out of a junk yard. They produce shit, they have been producing shit since day one. I will never eat anything that touches their hands unless it is being completely under the guidance of American or European people. Nothing against the Chinese at all, tons against their nascent capitalism. I should say hybrid capitalism. Apple is a good example, it is an Apple product so you can have some well placed faith in the finished product. However, if a product originates in China, with Chinese investment, Chinese infrastructure and every aspect down the line is Chinese I would make an impressive wager that that product is shit. They have a huge problem with corruption in corporate matters. They will skimp on the most essential parts of a product. The government already executed some of these people and you would should know this. After all I am not speaking to the loon or Dwightie. At least I think so anyway.

If I am still alive and China has turned production management techniques with some very serious oversight I will then start purchasing their products. It is not unlike Japan when Japan first started manufacturing, in their infancy, they produced shit often simply stamped cheap metal products. However they turned it around quickly but be aware that American technology was with them every step of the way. You don't know this, really???

[brooks85]

You guys go right ahead, buy your cheap foreign made shit and vote Repub, because they are owned by the
corporations who have no patriotism to keep their businesses here. Tearing down the fabric of this country
while saying they are patriots. You guys blame Obama, better look in the mirror and take a good hard look.

Nor should that be any concern when they make a business decision. Their job is to return profit to shareholders. It's the governments job to make this country an enticing place for business which they have failed at miserably. Highest corporate tax in the world and you blame them for moving jobs. Typical liberal.

[rkelly110]

Josh are you ok? Just asking. Your m o has changed. You don't seem all there.

Just some things off the top of my head from China that has caused some safety and headaches from their products.

Lead paint in children's toys, Corningware shattering when micro waving, drywall that caused awful respiratory problems not to mention the corrosive action on copper plumbing. New homes made of that stuff had to be replaced by their owners at massive expense. Now they are counterfeiting every product under the sun. From Viagra to Vicks vapo rub. Container loads still on the boat are full of counterfeit goods. Let's not forget the dog food awhile back tainted with bad wheat products. Thousands of dogs died or got sick. Same with Chicken dog treats from them.

Now they are hacking into corporate accounts and stealing their trade secrets, not to mention our govt systems.

Give those guys work from our un patriotic companies and look what they do. Bit the hand that fed them.

Stop buying their shit!

[rkelly110]

Nor should that be any concern when they make a business decision. Their job is to return profit to shareholders. It's the governments job to make this country an enticing place for business which they have failed at miserably. Highest corporate tax in the world and you blame them for moving jobs. Typical liberal.

On paper. After tax cuts practically nill. Forgot about share holders, thanks.

[dante1]

Nor should that be any concern when they make a business decision. Their job is to return profit to shareholders. It's the governments job to make this country an enticing place for business which they have failed at miserably. Highest corporate tax in the world and you blame them for moving jobs. Typical liberal.

Corporate tax rate means nothing if those same corporations end up paying much less or even zero. I can have a tax rate of 15% but with my deductions and all the other bs get it down to less than 10%. I wonder how many top corporations last year paid little or no federal tax?

[dante1]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/corporation-tax-rate_n_4855763.html

Many reason they give for paying no corporate tax, all of them complete bs.

[rkelly110]

It's not wrong when it helps the average consumer and keeps people in business.

Be specific and tell us which towns Mitt Romney destroyed.

http://nothingright.com/companies-that-bain-capital-has-outsourced-or-destroyed/

Might be some town names in there, but he targeted steel mills and usually the town it resides in, when closed, is devastating. Now to be fair, him and his group did create businesses and put people to work, but not in the towns he destroyed.

[guitarjosh]

Well Josh first of all I am talented but I am not a soothsayer.

Second most of the stuff you own now if made in China is absolutely second rate to the stuff you owned before, that is unless you picked your original crap out of a junk yard. They produce shit, they have been producing shit since day one. I will never eat anything that touches their hands unless it is being completely under the guidance of American or European people. Nothing against the Chinese at all, tons against their nascent capitalism. I should say hybrid capitalism. Apple is a good example, it is an Apple product so you can have some well placed faith in the finished product. However, if a product originates in China, with Chinese investment, Chinese infrastructure and every aspect down the line is Chinese I would make an impressive wager that that product is shit. They have a huge problem with corruption in corporate matters. They will skimp on the most essential parts of a product. The government already executed some of these people and you would should know this. After all I am not speaking to the loon or Dwightie. At least I think so anyway.

If I am still alive and China has turned production management techniques with some very serious oversight I will then start purchasing their products. It is not unlike Japan when Japan first started manufacturing, in their infancy, they produced shit often simply stamped cheap metal products. However they turned it around quickly but be aware that American technology was with them every step of the way. You don't know this, really???

Josh are you ok? Just asking. Your m o has changed. You don't seem all there.

Just some things off the top of my head from China that has caused some safety and headaches from their products.

Lead paint in children's toys, Corningware shattering when micro waving, drywall that caused awful respiratory problems not to mention the corrosive action on copper plumbing. New homes made of that stuff had to be replaced by their owners at massive expense. Now they are counterfeiting every product under the sun. From Viagra to Vicks vapo rub. Container loads still on the boat are full of counterfeit goods. Let's not forget the dog food awhile back tainted with bad wheat products. Thousands of dogs died or got sick. Same with Chicken dog treats from them.

Now they are hacking into corporate accounts and stealing their trade secrets, not to mention our govt systems.

Give those guys work from our un patriotic companies and look what they do. Bit the hand that fed them.

Stop buying their shit!

Do either of you have any data on how much Chinese stuff is recalled compared to American? Obviously Chinese products will get recalled from time to time, but the same happens in America. Just off the top of my head, GM has had to recall millions of cars, you've had all types of food recalls (nuts, beef, hummus), parts for your cars, etc. Yes there is corporate corruption in China, but what country has eliminated it completely?

Edit: Right after I posted this, Chrysler issued a recall for 2005-2007 cars.

[dante1]

Do either of you have any data on how much Chinese stuff is recalled compared to American? Obviously Chinese products will get recalled from time to time, but the same happens in America. Just off the top of my head, GM has had to recall millions of cars, you've had all types of food recalls (nuts, beef, hummus), parts for your cars, etc. Yes there is corporate corruption in China, but what country has eliminated it completely?

Edit: Right after I posted this, Chrysler issued a recall for 2005-2007 cars.

Don't have the data, but I do know they produce shit.

Yes, we have recalls because of stringent guide lines and necessary legislation. They have little to none. Can't make that comparison josh when the other side has no or little protocol for production quality and very little quality control. I think you know this, and if you do then you are arguing slightly dishonest. Did you think it would pass?

I am glad Chrysler has a recall, that means at least some of the time the system works. It certainly can't be used to compare the quality of USA products vs China. That is a joke josh and I expect that type of dishonesty from Dwightie and loon, not you.

[guitarjosh]

Don't have the data, but I do know they produce shit.

Yes, we have recalls because of stringent guide lines and necessary legislation. They have little to none. Can't make that comparison josh when the other side has no or little protocol for production quality and very little quality control. I think you know this, and if you do then you are arguing slightly dishonest. Did you think it would pass?

I am glad Chrysler has a recall, that means at least some of the time the system works. It certainly can't be used to compare the quality of USA products vs China. That is a joke josh and I expect that type of dishonesty from Dwightie and loon, not you.

That isn't entirely accurate. A lot of the products that are made in China are sold by American companies. They just build a factory there and hire local workers to make everything, and they also hire quality control to make sure the products are up to snuff.

Here you can get Fortune's list of largest Chinese companies: http://fortune.com/global500/sinopec-group-3/

How many of those have you heard of and sell cheap crap that no other company makes?

[Turd Ferguson]

I don't know what you're talking about in poor quality. Most of the stuff I own now is the best I've ever owned. The quality for me is going up while the price is going down.

I don't know if you're a Fender or Gibson guy, or neither, but would you settle for one of those Chinese knockoff Les Pauls? How about one of those Strats or Teles from over there made from Agathis wood...everybody who plays guitar are stumbling over themselves to get their hands on one of those bad boys...

[guitarjosh]

I don't know if you're a Fender or Gibson guy, or neither, but would you settle for one of those Chinese knockoff Les Pauls? How about one of those Strats or Teles from over there made from Agathis wood...everybody who plays guitar are stumbling over themselves to get their hands on one of those bad boys...

No, I'd prefer an American guitar, and they are higher quality than Epiphone or the Squire/Mexican Fenders. At the same time, those products are also cheaper. I can tell you this, that if someone asked me what guitar to get a beginner, I wouldn't tell them to buy an American Gibson or Fender.

Let's also point out that a guitar is completely different from a pair of shoes or a t-shirt. If you're going to drop 3k on a guitar, you're probably going to make a bit of money playing it, while as long as your shirt is covering you, it doesn't really matter if it's made in China, Mexico, or USA.

[Turd Ferguson]

No, I'd prefer an American guitar, and they are higher quality than Epiphone or the Squire/Mexican Fenders. At the same time, those products are also cheaper. I can tell you this, that if someone asked me what guitar to get a beginner, I wouldn't tell them to buy an American Gibson or Fender.

Let's also point out that a guitar is completely different from a pair of shoes or a t-shirt. If you're going to drop 3k on a guitar, you're probably going to make a bit of money playing it, while as long as your shirt is covering you, it doesn't really matter if it's made in China, Mexico, or USA.

You can get giggable, or at least serviceable Mexican, Japanese, and even American Fenders for under a grand I don't know about Gibson.

The quality is shit on junk imported junk from Asia. When I was a kid an American made pair of Levis would last me until I outgrew them, and i was a hundred times harder on them then than I am now...they would last through countless schoolyard football and baseball games, bmx, rasslin, whatever else I did that kids did back in the era when kids actually went outside. Clothes you get now aren't like that anymore, and they aren't cheap. Well the t-shirts you get in packs at Walmart are pretty cheap but you have to replace them pretty fast. Just saying I don't see it as a win-win.

Id rather pay a few bucks more for quality t-shirts with the added satisfaction of knowing that American workers got paid a decent wage to make them. These workers will then go out and buy stuff, resulting in more work for me. Ugh that sounds like what having a middle class again would be like, the conservatives' worst nightmare.

[scumbag]

Spot on turd.

Russell Kirk (the godfather of the modern conservative movement) wrote a book in the 50's called "the conservative mind". He was terrified of the consequences of the middle class "having too much".

by 1969 the right was like "Kirk was right. These mother fckers got too much money"

its been war in the middle class ever since.

[guitarjosh]

You can get giggable, or at least serviceable Mexican, Japanese, and even American Fenders for under a grand I don't know about Gibson.

The quality is shit on junk imported junk from Asia. When I was a kid an American made pair of Levis would last me until I outgrew them, and i was a hundred times harder on them then than I am now...they would last through countless schoolyard football and baseball games, bmx, rasslin, whatever else I did that kids did back in the era when kids actually went outside. Clothes you get now aren't like that anymore, and they aren't cheap. Well the t-shirts you get in packs at Walmart are pretty cheap but you have to replace them pretty fast. Just saying I don't see it as a win-win.

Id rather pay a few bucks more for quality t-shirts with the added satisfaction of knowing that American workers got paid a decent wage to make them. These workers will then go out and buy stuff, resulting in more work for me. Ugh that sounds like what having a middle class again would be like, the conservatives' worst nightmare.

We'll if you can get decent foreign Fender guitars, what is the argument that foreign products are crap?

A lot of American companies outsource to Asia, and they still need to be quality products. If those Asians get more money, that's not a bad thing. The Chinese middle class is growing, and they also buy products that create more jobs for Americans. The difference is between having 330 million customers and billions from the rest of the world having money to buy products from America.

[scumbag]

Guitar josh,

thats some of the lamest shit I've read on this forum. Certainly you don't need to be told why.

[guitarjosh]

Guitar josh,

thats some of the lamest shit I've read on this forum. Certainly you don't need to be told why.

Pretend I do. Tell me why

[Let's Go Rangers]

Pretend I do. Tell me why

Because he was never told this before by MSDNC, CNN, the Huffington Post, Dailykos, media matters, think progress, moveon.org etc.

So it can't be true

[brooks85]

Corporate tax rate means nothing if those same corporations end up paying much less or even zero. I can have a tax rate of 15% but with my deductions and all the other bs get it down to less than 10%. I wonder how many top corporations last year paid little or no federal tax?

here is a one of many examples of your stupidity. Even if I was on your side I'd tell you're obviously missing something if you think that is a good comparison. Unless your point was that the companies operating in one of the world's highest effective tax rates uses loopholes...


Based on your comparison you either A) don't have the most basic understanding of corporate tax rates and their effects or B) Agree that corporate tax rate is too high lol You pick

Don't have the data, but I do know they produce shit.

.

Surprises no one, you must be connected to rkelly with your "my truths."

[dante1]

you disagree that many corporations pay zero, oh my you really are really stupid.

[brooks85]

you disagree that many corporations pay zero, oh my you really are really stupid.

as I said, you need to work on your reading comprehension lol

or you just doing that liberal logic thing where you make up the other guy's argument in your head?

[dante1]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/02/25/corporation-tax-rate_n_4855763.html

[dante1]

well mr brooks that is what you had bolded. Gosh you are pathetic. Listen I quit, you win. Go "prey" to your God. I have little time for fellows with such a low understanding of everything. Again, you can have all the last posts. Again, you need them.

[brooks85]

you disagree that many corporations pay zero, oh my you really are really stupid.

well mr brooks that is what you had bolded. Gosh you are pathetic. Listen I quit, you win. Go "prey" to your God. I have little time for fellows with such a low understanding of everything. Again, you can have all the last posts. Again, you need them.

is it?


wow your brain really works funny.

Yes, runaway liberal. Right after you post a link from huffingtonpost containing a bunch of sheep feed lol the irony. You have no understanding what you're talking about clearly. Last post lol.. right.. until next time you post some illogical crap then you can take the high road again

[brooks85]

lol dante doing what he does best; running away after his lack of reading comprehension is exposed.

[The Kraken]

Brooks is still winless

[brooks85]

Considering you're not good with numbers I'm not worried about your scorecard... lol


Anyways, dante still running

[brooks85]

keep running dante, you are fooling not one. All you have done is gathered liberal sheep that I have PROVEN as no different than you. From a third party perspective that isn't a good sign for you by the way.



you have rkelly who admits to being a sheep and using "my truths"

you have kraken who doesn't have any burden of proof nor is clueless about the own economic situation in his own city. He actually thought the increase in pay was a good thing... lol

you have greaselighting who doesn't even know what obamacare is or was designed to accomplish...


and we have you... who keeps running..

[dante1]

keep running dante, you are fooling not one. All you have done is gathered liberal sheep that I have PROVEN as no different than you. From a third party perspective that isn't a good sign for you by the way.

Well we can continue our (sort of conversation) about history or political science if you please. We can start with you answering the questions I presented, you know the questions you labeled ridiculous. I can't understand how a history or political science question would be ridiculous in a forum labeled politics.

No mr brooks you are fake, you know you are a fake, everybody that reads your bs knows you are a fake and you have yet to present a coherent argument partly because you have a huge problem with the English language. you and dwightie should seriously think about getting your ged.

[brooks85]

Well we can continue our (sort of conversation) about history or political science if you please. We can start with you answering the questions I presented, you know the questions you labeled ridiculous. I can't understand how a history or political science question would be ridiculous in a forum labeled politics.

No mr brooks you are fake, you know you are a fake, everybody that reads your bs knows you are a fake and you have yet to present a coherent argument partly because you have a huge problem with the English language. you and dwightie should seriously think about getting your ged.

lol another logical fallacy

we weren't having one, you are not fooling anyone.


fact is I have dealt with your kind many times mr. "I don't have the data" so go ahead and continue your completely unrelated conversation about history with yourself. Lol civil war, desperate putz

now what degree do you have if any?... you obviously have not taken any economics, finance or business classes in general.

[brooks85]

Don't have the data,

still funny the second time... just like when you exposed your poor intellect here...

you disagree that many corporations pay zero, oh my you really are really stupid.

well mr brooks that is what you had bolded. .

[dante1]

again lots of bs but nothing substantial.

Did you research what JW Booth said about his arm after he was shot by a union soldier as he was hiding in a barn? Those two words uttered by one of your heroes reflect exactly what debating with you is all about. It is what I and many others think when reading your bs, look it up brooks because I know you haven't a clue. Find a book, look it up.

25 minutes no answer, this clown usually hits a response to me in milliseconds. if it involves anything academic count this guy out. hey brooks it isn't that hard look it up I realize you have no books but use the net. and spend a minute or two and also look up the word "reactionary" as it pertains to politics. We can have a little discussion when you find those two.

[dante1]

Whenever you ask this clown a specific question, a question that requires a specific answer, a question that he cannot answer with bs or insults, a question that requires some specific knowledge or an ability to research. Well he simply fades away. This is not the first time this mr brooks disappeared when I asked for some exact knowledge about a specific event concerning American history or American political history. Hey that is acceptable. None of us have all the answers all of the time. But, he doesn't even take the time to research it. He is afraid it is a trap, he smells a trap so he runs away. The irony of this running away thing is he accuses others of running away. He must secretly hate himself because he deflects his many questionable traits on to others.