Fed/birdman

**fixxer** · 03-30-10, 09:01 PM

Federer just gave away first set to Berdych. No way this wasn't intentional.....

**JNic** · 03-30-10, 09:04 PM

well looks like the over is gonna hit

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:06 PM

Originally posted by fixxer

Federer just gave away first set to Berdych. No way this wasn't intentional.....

confusing me with your double negative...intentional loss by fed in the first set or not?

**fixxer** · 03-30-10, 09:07 PM

I have never seen him playing like an amatuer like this......

**fixxer** · 03-30-10, 09:09 PM

I don't call fix often....but what happened in the first set was just unbelievable....not that fact he lost the set, that happens.....how he played

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:54 PM

you know berdych is good though don't you? He can play with Fed.

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:55 PM

Fed has stepped up his game in the 2nd and all I need is 5-5 and i will get the win....I'd like Fed to take this though because I have him to win this tourney.

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:56 PM

when the birdman has his head on he can beat anyone - and when he doesn't he can lose to someone ranked #321.

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:58 PM

great point there...fed is playing great this game and yet is kind of lucky to be up 30-0

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:59 PM

40-0

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 09:59 PM

Got the over

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 10:00 PM

just no retirements now

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 10:09 PM

probably the best tennis i've seen this tournament...both are playing great.

**illcrushem** · 03-30-10, 10:45 PM

Is Fed really about to lose this match?

**illcrushem** · 03-30-10, 10:51 PM

Originally posted by illcrushem

Is Fed really about to lose this match?

I take that back...this is awesome

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 11:12 PM

great match...

**Tsonga** · 03-30-10, 11:21 PM

and it went according to the plan...except Fed losing of course....but an over is an over.

**Jive** · 03-30-10, 11:22 PM

Well, I have now lost huge parlays in the last 3 weeks on the last match, with Fed losing, Djoker losing, Rafa losing, and Henin losing. FOUR times I have made it to the end looking at 3:1 payouts only to have the least likely of matches in my parlay let me down. Because of timing it was too late for me to hedge.

Please allow me to whine like a bitchy little kid for a while.

Otherwise, it was fabulous match! This has been a fun tournament so far.

**michalis** · 03-31-10, 12:04 AM

I bet fed thinking he just cant go down early again, no motivation after ao

**Tsonga** · 03-31-10, 06:55 AM

Originally posted by michalis

I bet fed thinking he just cant go down early again, no motivation after ao

Fed was motivated...not like for a slam but he was trying to win. He just got beat...I don't like how every time he loses people say he wasn't motivated...he was working hard and lost to the better player last night. and Fed had his chances...match point too...just didn't convert.

In a best of 5 set match Fed is much tougher to knock off - in a best of 3 he can lose...remember Berdych had him to sets to zero in the A-open...and then Fed came back to win 3-2. If the A-open was just best of 3 everyone would be saying Fed is unmotivated.

**michalis** · 03-31-10, 07:44 AM

Originally posted by Tsonga

Fed was motivated...not like for a slam but he was trying to win. He just got beat...I don't like how every time he loses people say he wasn't motivated...he was working hard and lost to the better player last night. and Fed had his chances...match point too...just didn't convert.

In a best of 5 set match Fed is much tougher to knock off - in a best of 3 he can lose...remember Berdych had him to sets to zero in the A-open...and then Fed came back to win 3-2. If the A-open was just best of 3 everyone would be saying Fed is unmotivated.

you have a a point, but may I remind you that after ao he went home and didnt play tennis for 2 months? he has other priorities now

**Boner_18** · 03-31-10, 09:15 AM

I think it is clear that Fed. gives less than 100% in tournaments (maybe even Grand Slams). When you think about all actions human beings take they are cost/benefit analysis:
Cost:
Risk of getting injured (I think this is the big one)
Time spent with family/kids

Benefit:
More points (not as valuable to him as to a lesser ranked player)
More money (the marginal utility gained by $1 for Federer is certainly less than gained by you or me)

Obviously there are other factors to be measured on each side but I don't think it is out of the realm of possibility that he is giving less than 100% for these lesser matches. I'm not saying that he is tanking them on purpose, just that he dials something back.

**EaglesPhan36** · 03-31-10, 09:47 AM

Two things for me: After the Australian Open, what motivation does someone like Federer have to finish the hard court season? ZERO since he won. If he had lost, perhaps he would have been more motivated. Secondly, he's probably been focused on the clay court season for several weeks now in anticipation of it starting next week ... also, give the talent level in the ATP some props. It's a deep talented bunch right now, even in a 4th Round facing a Top 20 player in these deep tournaments is tough.

**Tsonga** · 03-31-10, 10:46 AM

My point is just that some people don't recognize that even the best players are going to lose...even when they are trying to win. They sometimes just get beat by players playing better than them...I just don't like the exuse that the top players are not motivated every time they lose...if its a blow-out you could say that but if someone gets to match point and then blows it you can't say they were unmotivated.

I understand that Fed has different priorities in life and that he is building his sched around majors...that does not change the fact that when he plays he is trying to win...like yesterday he had a match point...he didn't just decide that on that specific point he was going to tank and let Berdych win. Berdych took it from him...and Fed is going to lose sometimes when he is not on the top of his game....

Good point by Eagles Phan about the deep talent pool in men's tennis - its blows women's away...i can't stand women's tennis. On any given tournament for the men there are probably close to 25 guys that could potentially win or at least knock off a top player.

If you want a unmotivated example you could look at the Djoker in his match lately..he was spent from Davis cup and lost to a Rochus...there is no way that happens if Djoker is playing serious in a big tournament. Djoker was smoking everyone late last year and lately is just really inconsistent and you don't want to go heavy on him until he turns things around.

These masters series events will have upsets with the top 10 because they are all required to be there...and some of them, depending on the time, don't want to be.

**Boner_18** · 03-31-10, 11:50 AM

All true. And yeah EP we do need to recognize the depth of talent in the game today. I tried to bring this up in the Fed. vs. Sampras thread and it was poo-poo'ed. I think the top 20, top 50 even is deeper than ever before in the game of tennis (granted I am only 27 so I don't know to many era's that well).

Also, you are right Tsonga. Fed is a champion and top level competitor, who would never (well never say "never") tank a match, set, game or even point on purpose. It's just that he is not dialed in 100%. I didn't see the point but were it a MP in a major would he have sold out his body? Possibly.

And yes, of course anyone can lose any day of the week to anyone. This is an individual sport with fluctuations in the quality of play based on every factor under the sun (including whether the sun itself is shining).

God, I really do love this sport.

**michalis** · 03-31-10, 04:09 PM

ffs when people loose a bet they like to vent and talk $hit about the guy that lost them money

dont be anal about it, you do it too

**Jive** · 04-01-10, 12:20 AM

Rambling thoughts as I read this thread...

Let's be honest. Fed did not have much fire last night. Except for the end of the 2nd set, he looked like he was just there. I have no doubt he wanted to win and it is insane to accuse the man of tanking in any way, but his mind and body were not in sync last night. I don't want to take anything away from Birdman, who was awesome and clearly the best player (so much so that I think he beat Fed worse than a third set tiebreak would indicate). But I do feel that Fed's mind/body/spirit were off kilter.

It is too be expected, I believe. At some point the elite players in all sports begin to float through the regular season to get to the playoffs (or majors, in this case). It is emotionally and physically taxing to put forth 100% effort in every match for many years, and when you have more money and points than you will ever need, you focus on the big prizes. You see the same thing from Serena Williams, who is awful in any event that isn't a Grand Slam. Heck, she doesn't even show up to most of them anymore. I think Fed has too much pride to ever truly tank like Serena and I suspect he will continue to pick up some of these other tournaments, but I don't expect him to ever dominate non-major events again, even if he is clearly better than everyone else (and the gap, as pointed out, closes more every day with some great talent on the ATP side).

It happens to all the great champions. People forget that as Pete Sampras got older, he didn't win a single tournament between the 2000 Wimbledon and 2002 US Open. Over the last 4 years of his career I think he only won 5 non-majors/year end championship events. He reached a few finals of those tournaments but didn't hoist a single trophy. These guys and gals just get to the point where they focus on majors and enjoy life a little more. Fed is older now at 29 than even Pete was when he went into that 4 year window of coasting through the regular ATP season and just focusing on the majors.

My point is, expect more of the same during regular tour stops, but watch Fed continue to be the man at majors. Thankfully there are some great young players out there who can take him out now, so there will be some fantastic matches and intrigue as we go forward.