BetOT enters the SBR Rating Guide

**Casi** · 02-19-09, 08:05 PM

Than tell me, why do the top books offer a maximum bonus of 20%?
And Pinnacle...they have 10%. They know that scalpers etc. love them, and will usually only punt weak lines that can be covered with no loss or a small + at Pinnacle or Matchbook.

Don´t tell me that advertising a 50% in a forum full of sharps is a good thing for a book. You only do it to take a shot, maybe you are lucky and the results favor you...

**simmmy** · 02-19-09, 08:19 PM

Anyone know the dialing code from the UK to Phoenix/Betot?

**betpartners** · 02-19-09, 11:06 PM

Do a google Simmy, but what i dont understand is with the hundreds of european books that pay out instantly etc that you would choose an offshore book.

Anyway i see BetOT is still in business and taking new clients, considering this thread is that not a worrying thing?

**edkc** · 02-20-09, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by simmmy

RJbetphoenix, did you read my SBR PM or the same email i sent you,i had a payout cancelled due to the rollover not completed, this was not true as CS had not only already confirmed completion also i had a payout to. My deposit was 24th December and the bonus K100 at that time it was 10 times rollover deposit plus bonus , i deposited £500 received £500 freeplay.I have all chats to back up my post.

BT0690

HI Simmy,

I have a same case like you, now they are asking me to roll more which I think is unreasonable. Betphoenix also should be fair to their Betot clients as well, they should not demand us to make up unknown rollover which we are not told off, this is unfair.
I make a deposit of 400USD receive 400USD freeplay which rollover is at most 800 X 10 = 8000USD, and now they are asking me to roll 18,000USD because I have won their freeplay. I still have the chat record which say I am only require to roll 800 X 8 =6400USD.
This is rediculous, previous Betot management are gone now and BetPhoenix is now asking Betot players and members to pay for their wrong doing, what is this. Sorry if my word are harsh, but I just had to let go. My promise payout was not promise at all. And it is 2months from now. This is a shame.

**strybie** · 02-20-09, 09:28 AM

Originally posted by RJbetphoenix

I have to disagree on that one. 90ish % of these OT posters are new to sbr...single digit posts etc. They found their way here by google. Bonuses and comps done right are a good thing for book and player alike.

?? new to SBR ?? don't think most posters here are new ...

I still didn't get an answer on my PM or email.

I am still waiting for my pay out , day 5 now .... It should take 7-10 business days (unbelievable) so I am getting closer I hope

Management of BETOT or BETPHOENIX, please adjust the website, saying "no one pays as fast as BETOT" .... This isn't right at all. It is more like the opposite right now...

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-20-09, 12:02 PM

All requests are being looked at. People are being paid. Most OT clients that are posting here are new to SBR yes. Also, not every OT client is on SBR either, and they need to be paid as well. This is not a squeaky wheel gets the grease scenario here. Either way, we are going over EVERY account closely, and it will take time. I do read my emails and PMs, 'even the insulting ones', and they are filed to the people looking at the accounts on an individual and against the group basis.

You are right about OT not paying fast. They are not paying at all... We are. That being said we are making no changes to the site until this issue is cleared.

More payments will be released today.

**pukbt4110** · 02-20-09, 12:32 PM

I think this thread has run its course....if you are a genuine player, you WILL get your money from ot in due course, but just accept the delays folks......Richard is doing a grand job sorting things out for us here....I got paid....you WILL get paid......patience people.....and yes Phoenix have stepped up to the plate here and get my full praise

**GodofGamblers** · 02-20-09, 06:18 PM

These guys are still asking me to wager £30000 based on a bonus rule they introduced weeks after I accepted my bonus under different terms. Avoid them at all costs.

**rufcut** · 02-20-09, 06:24 PM

Anyone who deposited by moneybookers who is a VIP can ask moneybookers to investigate what is a breach of the terms under which you made your moneybookers deposit.
Moneybookers is still advertising Phoenix and S-1, so they should know about this rogue merchant, and put them under pressure to payout according to the original terms, both in terms of timeliness and wagering terms.

**browntrousers** · 02-20-09, 06:49 PM

Is a C rating ("Average to below average cust. service with some risk to players funds.") for Betot and Sports-1 still justified today? Is a B rating for Betphoenix still justified, given their association with Betot and Sports-1?

Would a D or F rating, for all three - Betphoneix/Betot/Sports-1 not be much more appropriate now, to protect new players?

I might have got this all wrong, if so I apologise in advance of SBR telling me, and the rest of us forum users, where I went wrong,

**Mudcat** · 02-20-09, 06:49 PM

I just got another message repeating that I hadn't completed my rollover due to rules that didn't exist when I did my deposit. I replied to Mike and copied Richard.

The new message I received didn't even acknowledge the explanation I gave of why my rollover was complete. It didn't try to refute what I said; it just ignored it. So I don't know if Mike just isn't paying attention or BetOT is actually going to go ahead with a plan to apply new rules to old deposits.

Can you comment on this Richard?

**rufcut** · 02-20-09, 06:53 PM

Mike and Richard seem to be playing out a good cop/ bad cop thing on this.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-20-09, 07:00 PM

Rufcut,

You get paid? You have an account? Let me know.

Thanks,

Richard

**Mudcat** · 02-20-09, 07:01 PM

Originally posted by browntrousers

Is a C rating ("Average to below average cust. service with some risk to players funds.") for Betot and Sports-1 still justified today? Is a B rating for Betphoenix still justified, given their association with Betot and Sports-1?

Would a D or F rating, for all three - Betphoneix/Betot/Sports-1 not be much more appropriate now, to protect new players?

I might have got this all wrong, if so I apologise in advance of SBR telling me, and the rest of us forum users, where I went wrong,

Here is my view: there is some over-reacting here. We have players who have been waiting 7 days wailing like they are victims of the crime of the century.

Meanwhile there are A and B books which have been taking an average of 2 months for payouts for over a year and/or bouncing cheques and/or pulling bait-and-switches.

None of this is good. Nothing excuses anything else. I know some players have been waiting longer. But things just aren't great in the industry.

My position is still to be patient here. Things have been handled poorly but it can still be looked at as more of a glitch than a long-term thing. They are trying. There are a lot of books higher on my downgrade list right now.

**rufcut** · 02-20-09, 07:15 PM

RJ, nice of you to enquire. I do have an OT account and did eventually get paid because I whined and complained and spent literally days worrying at the problem, hours on livechat, some time on the phone and had help from moneybookers to get my own money.
I have never had the misfortune to be so obviously lied to by a book as by yours and I don't like to see even worse happening to other players, which is why I'm continuing to try to help them.
BetPhoenix seems to be making an absurd attempt to occupy moral highground while stealing people's money, and individuals sitting at home being told they have to do another 30k wagering or whatever, beyond the original deal, need some reassurance of the common sense fact that you are robbing them and they should not stand for it.

**GodofGamblers** · 02-20-09, 07:17 PM

It's disappointing that representitives for Phoenix are active on here, but yet they refuse to address the wagering situation. Presumably, e-mail complaints are being forwarded on to other members of staff who are just brushing the issue under the carpet.

**RJbetphoenix** · 02-20-09, 07:30 PM

Did you get paid by OT or Phoenix? Your comments are off base. Moneybookers has not helped anyone get paid, betphoenix has. The rest is sensationalistic at best.

On a different note. I am glad that you got paid and your issue resolved.

**browntrousers** · 02-20-09, 08:12 PM

Mudcat, why are you suddenly defending them? Are you hoping for innocent new players taking the current SBR ratings as 'good', so that new money arrives in Betot/Betphoenix and they can therefore pay people like yourself? And never mind what happens to those new players.......???

I have never personally had any of the payout issues you mention with an A-or B-rated book, and not heard of problems like you mention. The Betot debacle is somewhat in its own class, they are a C-rated book so wouldn't normally taint the A/B ratings, but everyone knows they are closely associated with Betphoenix and therefore the SBR B-ratings are now very questinable.

My question to SBR remains - should the SBR ratings for Betot/Sports-1/Betphoenix remain as they are, given the fact that many of the Betot players, including yourself, apparently, are being strung along by Betphoenix now?

People rely on SBR ratings being trustworthy. SBR keeping the current ratings intact would be very bad news indeed for SBR's credibility.

For what it's worth, I am an ex-Betot customer, Betot don't owe me anything since I eventually lost my entire balance (just v bad luck, but my approach to betting allows for bad spells like this). Unsurprisingly, Betot lobbied me constantly until the day of their demise to make further deposits. To be fair to Betphoenix, they haven't resumed the lobbying after having assumed responsibility for Betot's debt - may be because I kept asking Betot to comment on payout issues reported on SBR and other Internet forums. I dread to think what situation I would be in now if my bets had won, and I want to do what I can to warn others about the risks with these books, especially since SBR ratings are, surprisingly, still relatively good for them.

Originally posted by Mudcat

Here is my view: there is some over-reacting here. We have players who have been waiting 7 days wailing like they are victims of the crime of the century.

Meanwhile there are A and B books which have been taking an average of 2 months for payouts for over a year and/or bouncing cheques and/or pulling bait-and-switches.

None of this is good. Nothing excuses anything else. I know some players have been waiting longer. But things just aren't great in the industry.

My position is still to be patient here. Things have been handled poorly but it can still be looked at as more of a glitch than a long-term thing. They are trying. There are a lot of books higher on my downgrade list right now.

Originally posted by Mudcat

I just got another message repeating that I hadn't completed my rollover due to rules that didn't exist when I did my deposit. I replied to Mike and copied Richard.

The new message I received didn't even acknowledge the explanation I gave of why my rollover was complete. It didn't try to refute what I said; it just ignored it. So I don't know if Mike just isn't paying attention or BetOT is actually going to go ahead with a plan to apply new rules to old deposits.

Can you comment on this Richard?

**Casi** · 02-20-09, 08:22 PM

Should be lowered to D- or something like that asap, not paying out AND increasing the rollover is a scam book plan.

What are your options if you are stuck with them now?
Whatever you decide to do, don´t bet the other side elsewhere, i wouldn´t want to pump more money into an account with those jokers...

**strybie** · 02-21-09, 03:15 AM

Still waiting for my money, day 6 (business day 5). If betphoenix is paying right now, why not just transfer all accounts to betphoenix ? I send an email to betphoenix 2 days ago, asking if there was a possibility to transfer my account to them, but never got an answer ? It is the first time in years I have to wait so long to get my money ?

usually I use bet365, Bwin and prono (very good sportsbook, not known here)

**GodofGamblers** · 02-21-09, 03:34 AM

Waiting for over a month now. This is an outright scam. Only defence I can think of for Mike at BetOT is that he started work for OT in January maybe and he has been too lazy to check what the bonus rules were in December.

SBR what is your stance on a bookie increasing a bonus rollover for clients who accepted a bonus with smaller rollover? Surely this is the behaviour of a Z rated book and other bookies in cahoots with them?

**rufcut** · 02-21-09, 02:30 PM

Telling customers they can't get paid unless they wager 30k more than they agreed to is robbing them.

**strybie** · 02-23-09, 09:39 AM

Still waiting, Day 8 (business day 6) ... No news .... money still on balance ...

**Vfire** · 02-23-09, 01:47 PM

Hey Strybie exact same situation i have here myself , money still on balance atleast if the money was gone youd feel like something is happening , im on day 8 since last promise day 15 overall!

**Kelso** · 02-23-09, 03:01 PM

I wanted to personally thank Richard for helping me with my situation. Received $4000 worth of checks today as promised. Process from beginning to end took abt 10 days I think.

I am nobody to him. Just an OT player who emailed him and was willing to take checks instead of Moneybookers withdrawal. I will continue to play every day.

Can't speak to every one's situation, but I also received one of the emails saying I needed to wager more. Once Richard looked my case over, he saw I had withdrawn successfully twice before so there was no way I had any more rollover to achieve.

So this is my 3rd large withdrawal and I still have a sizeable balance there. I can only imagine everyone is being handled in some type of order.

**strybie** · 02-24-09, 02:34 AM

Good news !! I didn't check my balance the last 15 hours. Just wake up. Didn't see money on balance anymore and just checked my moneybookers and I received the money (1500) yesterday evening european time (so end of business day 6)

Anyway this is good news. I still have a litlle balance and will keep playing with BETOT. Just hope the next time the payout goes a bit faster

**jon99** · 02-24-09, 06:19 PM

Hi

I deposited to betot on january 5th for the mb50 promotion.

I was told on live chat by Alex :

" the terms of the MB50 is a 18x rollover of the dep + bonus and wait 15 days before any pay out thats it "

I depsoited £200 and Received £800 freeplay , and won on the freeplay.

I have completed over £18,000 of wagering , but have been told on livechat twice now that i must complete another £43000 wagering as my freebet had won , before i can withdraw.

I have tried to get clarification by emailing mike@betot.com and richard@betphoenix.com but my emails sent since 15th Feb have not yet been replied to.

Can anyone here confirm if they think that the wagering of bonus winnings was a rule in place when I deposited , even though i wasnt told this on livechat at the time.

cheers

**scale24** · 02-24-09, 08:39 PM

For those of you who have had multiple payouts from BetOT, whats the secret?

Not only have I completed the wagering requirements which existed at time of deposit, I have continued to place wagers (and have most probably completed the requirements relating to the new rules) - yet I haven't received a single penny!

Richard, if you're reading maybe you could explain why loyal clients such as myself who have continued to place wagers haven't received a single payment and those who will most probably never bet again at BetOT / Betphoenix have received multiple payouts?

**edkc** · 02-25-09, 03:05 AM

Hi to all,

Have anyone done the extra rollover requested by Betot yet?
Should we give in to them on this? If yes, what if they deny our withdrawal request again with other reasons?
I am worried.

**johns75** · 02-25-09, 06:33 AM

Originally posted by jon99

Can anyone here confirm if they think that the wagering of bonus winnings was a rule in place when I deposited , even though i wasnt told this on livechat at the time.

cheers

Richard at betphoenix has posted in this very thread (post number 241) that the rules were only changed on the 22nd January, so any deposits before that should be on the old rules:

Originally posted by RJbetphoenix

Greetings,

I will be handling the Betot issues here moving forward. Please Email me to Richard@betphoenix with details of any pending withdrawals so I can have them expedited. This includes affiliates as well.

With regards to rules. Whatever the rules were at the time of your last deposit is what will stand. There was an update to previous rules effective Jan 22nd. This notification of rule change was posted for a 24 hour period before deployment for all clients. That being said, and deposits after posted rule changes will have the new rules applications.

Thanks,

Richard

**jon99** · 02-25-09, 09:23 AM

cheers johns75.

I wish richard would tell the cs staff at betot if that is definately the case as they are still adamant that when I deposited on jan 5th that the new rules for wagering bonus winnings was in place.

I f you read this richard can you please confirm to me one way or the other what wagering rules I am bound by.

thanks again

**katstale** · 02-25-09, 10:07 AM

I can't speak for OT and I am still waiting for a payout myself. I can say that i am comforted by people getting paid (some of them I can confirm also from other forums).

I was also surprised and glad to see someone get paid via ewallet as that is my preferred method.

There is certainly some deficiency on OT's part in the CS/email department and we can only speculate on how long the list is of people they are working with. I will report back here when i get paid, but as one mentioned above--I am playing there every day.

My opinion is still this, as long as Richard and Phoenix are backing this we will all see our money and the wagering requirements snafu's will be straightened out.

**scale24** · 02-25-09, 07:22 PM

Extracts of my conversation with BetPhoenix livechat tonight, regarding my BetOT account:

Me: so you're saying the terms which existed at time of deposit (10 Jan) will not be honoured?

Victoria: The new terms have been in effect since Jan 5th

Me: really?

Victoria: Yes.

Me: exact words of Richard as per SBR:

Me: "With regards to rules. Whatever the rules were at the time of your last deposit is what will stand. There was an update to previous rules effective Jan 22nd. This notification of rule change was posted for a 24 hour period before deployment for all clients. That being said, and deposits after posted rule changes will have the new rules applications".

Me: so basically you're calling the owner of Betphoenix (Richard) a liar?

Victoria: That is for Betphoenix and betot updated theres on the 5th

Victoria: Your account is with betot and NOT with betphoenix

Victoria: So the new rules were posted on different dates.

Me: so why have some people, according to forums, had multiple payouts after meeting the rules which were in place at time of deposit

Victoria: I dont know about that.

Me: ...and people like me who have been loyal and continued to place wagers haven't received a penny?

Me: ...has my mistake been continuing to wager?

Me:...should I have stopped at 24,000 GBP (rollover requirement at time of deposit) and complained on every forum and with every betting regulator going?

Victoria: Dont know to late to say at this point.

Me: ...as it seems the people who did that have had multiple payouts

Victoria: I dont know those people, if you can get a hold of them and ask personally it would be better before falling in to conclutions.

Me: ...even if I do wager 41,520 (new rollover requirement) whats to say the rules wont change again?

Me: ...and I'll be asked to wager another 50,000?

Victoria: Well now thats just you coming to that conclution without even knowing it.

Victoria: You have to wager up to 41.520

Victoria: You can do it cmon thats almost done.

Me: so can you guarantee that once I reach 41,520, I can request a payout which will be processed promptly?

Victoria: You should be studying lines then argueing with me about something that cant be changed.

Me: just answer the question please?

Me: can you guarantee that once I reach 41,520, I can request a payout which will be processed promptly?

Me: yes or no?

Victoria: yes, yes, yes

Me: I'll be posting this conversation on SBR so other's are made aware of how you operate

Victoria: Sure Sir were used to being posted on the forums and you know why because were the best!!

Victoria: Post that too

Me: the best?

Victoria: YES THE BEST!!!

Me: more like the best Mickey Mouse outfit

Victoria: Mickey Mouse that pays though

Victoria: I'm sure you'll be very happy if you received a payout from us and that makes us the BEST.

Me: but I haven't received a payout have I?

Victoria: No sorry you havent.

Me: despite foolishingly depositing over 5,000 GBP with you

Victoria: Well good for you Sir.

**APK** · 02-25-09, 07:38 PM

Originally posted by scale24

Extracts of my conversation with BetPhoenix livechat tonight, regarding my BetOT account:

Me: ...even if I do wager 41,520 (new rollover requirement) whats to say the rules wont change again?

Me: ...and I'll be asked to wager another 50,000?

Victoria: Well now thats just you coming to that conclution without even knowing it.

Victoria: You have to wager up to 41.520

Victoria: You can do it cmon thats almost done.

Me: so can you guarantee that once I reach 41,520, I can request a payout which will be processed promptly?

[I][FONT=&quot]Victoria: You should be studying lines then argueing with me about something that cant be changed.

Shocking.

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 02-25-09, 09:07 PM

Waste of time contacting OT people I think - especially if they've essentially gone bust.