[sdtrader]

I recieved a payout from them this month and they are very quick only took 5 days.

[charleslanger]

You have little to gain and potentially more to lose with these people.

I've been with the book in question here since the late 90's, before they had an exchange.

(ehorse,betehorse,ehorsex,horizon20,lasp almas back when,betmakerdotcom,betmakerag,etc...sam e shiet...either same company OR back office anyways)

In the very beginning I had nothing but good things to say about them, in fact to such point I was chastised at a couple of places on suspicion of being connected to them...but now it's just the opposite.

For me, even though on both the sports & horse sides they were never good enough to be a main book, they were however, very useful for secondary purposes(hedge / dutch / middle / reverse / free money plays / etc.) to avoid being categorized a sharp.
Their liquidity was never that great though-- and after it took a dive I stopped using them.

Personally, I need very much for them(or any exchange) to make it-- I lay horses a lot, and it's also very useful for sports--since best of all, one can win lots of money w/o adverse reaction...theoretically at least.

Things to watch out for with them:

1. They're in law enforcement crosshairs(their betehorsedotcom & betmakerdotcom sites have been taken down by Vanilla ___, remember his top hit, "___, ___ Baby"?).
And Costa Rica not bulletproof haven to be in anymore.

2. Fund movement in this business so tough these days...and it's seemed to affect them a lot more than others.

3. They seem to have other cash flow problems.

4. Their customer service & back office have become a total joke. On top of being inept, they're rude.
Trust me when i tell you someone is inept and rude. My family comes from 5 diamond hospitality background, patience and good manners are in our genes. For someone to cross us any of us, they have to be looking for a beef--they really and repeatedly have to go out of their way. I give everyone the benefit of the doubt.
And it's actually ok to be inept...not everyone can be an Einstein, further some may even have incurable impairments-- everyone deserves a chance, or two, or three.
But while being totally brain dead, at least attempt to use 'basic customer service principles'...& stay consistent--don't all of a sudden become a wise ass / developing a brain when convenient.
You're too stupid(or lazy) to complete a basic task(in this case the most mandatory: take money from and enroll a customer whose money pays your salary), yet you're smart enough to come up with a wise crack and/or personal criticism to deflect attention & responsibility from having to complete it whenever your usual simple method does not yield immediate results / requires extra time and effort.

All personalities aside, there was that long-running Palmas fiasco, which eventually got solved. And when Cris got involved, it seemed to give them cachet.
But just look at how poorly funded they are at times, especially on the horse side. Years ago one could make larger wagers, so things have worsened in that area....end of this year will mark ONE ENTIRE DECADE this exchange has been up... plus at least another half decade previous the regular book.
They're seeded, in fact have always actively courted market makers(i've had discussions about this with them).

This means trouble just getting your bet down...at a decent enough size....and want to take a guess what will happen when you start winning regularly from their main seeder?

So, after all these years, why these issues?

My brother in law just went thru a twilight zone episode with them, which yields some clues.

He tried to open an account-- tried the operative word here.
He signed up on the web, then called to fund it.
"What's the best way to get started?"
"Transfer from another book you currently have an account with. Do you have any accounts with, x, y, z books?"
"No. What's the fastest relatively cheap way to send you money?"
"Don't you have an account elsewhere? What about a, b, or c books?" (can't remember all the books mentioned, he thought it was odd how they repeatedly changed topic from funding to transferring, but figured they were a bit paranoid w/ new customers)
"No. Says here on your website you take **, ****, **, **. You have 10% bonus + you credit initial deposit fee. How does that work?"
"That's for the ehorse racebook, the sportsbook, or casino-- not for ehorsex(exchange, same as betmaker). And you have to complete the rollover before doing any transfer to the exchange.
For the exchange you pay all fees. We charge you 8% for credit/debit cards(apart from what your bank charges you), and **/** depending on amount."
I think for **/**, besides the sending fee, was $15 setup charge.
"I want the exchange. I have a ** a block from me. How long does it take?"
"15 min., ½ hour; but ** not available now. You can do ** or mail a check in, unless I can talk to my manager & you can send us a wire-- but the minimum amount is $2,000"
"Let me ask you this. When I wish to withdraw, how does that work?"
"All withdrawals take 21 days".
"Really? How do you send them?"
"Same way, same as the funding options. You choose."
"Which method is fastest?"
"They all take about the same amount of time."
"That long for all the methods?"
"It usually doesn't take 21 days, that's what we're told to tell everyone. In fact, many of our customers compliment us on how fast they get their money."
(They settle on **. He's told to send it to a third country-- to some girl with a Spanish first name & two last names: one Arabic & the other Anglo. As luck would have it, my wife makes him go first to the supermarket. After that he goes to look for ** place and about two hours have transpired. He then gets a call from a Miami area code-- the book asking to reverse the money wire immediately.)
"I'm at the place right now, filling out the papers, haven't sent yet. To whom should I send instead?"
"Let me find someone and I'll call you back in a few minutes."
(He and the wife go to eat in the mall to kill time....couple of hours go by with no call, so he calls-- same cs answers)
"How do you receive money wired to you?"
"Do you have an account with us already?"
"Not just yet--
"Well let me sign you up & tell you about our different funding methods in the process."
"I'm wating for your call back--
"Oh, yes....i'm still looking for someone. Give me another hour or two. I'll definitely call you one way or the other before i leave for the day."
"Let me give you a CC then."
"It's better for you thru **, i'll try to find someone fast."
(evening arrives & no call. That shift's left for the day, next shift says they're still looking-- by next day they'll have someone. He asks if he can instead do cc or if ** is back on. He's told that ** has been & will be down for some time and cc processing not available. Next day he's very busy with work & has to stay late. Neither side called each other. Third day he calls.)
"I'm so sorry. Give me till the end of this week or early next week."
"You're kidding me. I'll try someone else."
"Ok, give me a CC then."
"I thought cc processing wasn't working".
"We prefer you use other methods."
(card supposedly no good. they try it a few times. Then CS asks if it was **********, that ** often doesn't go thru, use a a **** instead. . He tries one with same unsuccessful results. She asks for another different **** card. He says he only has two on him. She hears a bunch of people in the background and tells him to ask someone else to help him with one of their cards.
He hangs up and just to make sure calls both banks, everything on the up and up...CS advises it's a quirk with web purchases, sometimes transactions don't go thru; that if he trusts the merchant, to try different cards until one works...and to also ensure they spell everything correctly-- name, zip, billing address.
Back to book--CS advises to buy a prepaid card from store, those go thru real easy. To make sure it's a **** / not **...especially XXX brand, that XXX ****'s always go thru, in fact have never been declined. Both cc's from same bank, so he hangs up and calls bank-- everything on the up and up.
And he decides to go buy this prepaid card. And he wasted another entire day in this pursuit. He found tons of prepaid brands, but not XXXX he hit so many different kinds of stores in different cities. He found XXXX **********, which he took because it had a promo making it totally free at the store + the first ** / ** transaction free....it could work because it was xxxx bank, if not & **/** was back up, it could still work. And he also got two other different visas...and moneypak to load them with.
To be extra safe, he loaded each with plenty of money and he purchased horse pp's online with each before calling the book...which ended up being the next day.
As he's about to call the book, his cousin pipes up, "wait a minute, you needed a XXXX ****? I have an old one-- we just have to load it with a moneypak."
They go back and forth why spend more money, but that one will go thru for sure, maybe ** is back up, etc.
The book says to give them a few more days to get someone for **, so he asks them point blank,"i just heard of a store that carries xxxx ****-- before i go waste another trip, you sure it will go through?"
"Yes, xxxx always goes thru". After you get it, just log in and fund your account online w/o even calling us.
When he came back, i opened my big mouth,"the account's in your name, the card in Mikey's. Why don't you have him open an account in his name, and try to fund with a low amount...to be safe?" So he goes to my brother in law's laptop, quickly creates himself an account, but only gets a message that ************ have to get called in.
Csr remarks, "that's funny-- i just changed your account settings to allow cc processing. Since i got you on the phone, give me the number and i'll process it."
Card doesn't go thru... for $100.
"Let me try something else. I'll call you back in a few".
We get distracted watching the tube before realizing over an hour had passed with no call. A different csr answers,"yeah, i know who you are-- we tried the card a few times and it kept getting declined."
"Someone said they were going to call me back. Why didn't you call, so we could try something else, call the bank...try another card?"
"We figured you don't have money".
"You don't think i have $100 lousy dollars to my name?"
(He calls the prepaid card's bank & its csr even offers to help: "ensure they have your name, address & zip spelled out correctly...all in CAPS just to make sure. Also, if they ran the card as debit, to try it as credit this time instead. Or just have your merchant call me and i'll make sure it gets approved.")
"We don't call banks; and I've already tried that card enough times...you can try it on the web if you want."
Mikey logs in and now finds a dialog prompting for card details to fund with.

He fills everything in and clicks send, noticing that the name field changed by itself to my brother in law's name as it was processing-- only the name though, the unmatching phone and address didn't-- before getting declined again.
He tries again but can't get his name to stick...and that's when it clicks:
the app goes by individual computer & likely doesn't differentiate by account--or even want to see another account in the same computer. No matter which account was logged in, the same name was pre-populated in the card funding module...further, the guy over the phone likely ran the card with the wrong info, causing the declines.
Now my brother in law calls to fix things, but the guy's like:
"You know what, i don't need your business. Go someplace else."
"Why do you disrespect me like this? You don't know who I am!"'
"I know you don't even have a lousy $100 to open the account with".

If I hadn't been half the time with him, I wouldn't have believed this story, not even part of it. Not from him, my sister, my wife, anyone. I would've said impossible, you were probably all drunk the entire week it transpired.

I was about to make THE phone call, but then realized it was so totally not worth it. All emotional rhetoric aside--
1. I get him in, and then what....how are these self-admitted slow-payers going to treat him when he wins any kind of money, after all this?
2. Speaking of, there's just no liquidity. There's a little money on the sports side. But almost zilch on the horse side:
during the weekend, even a track like Santa Anita had almost no money offered or matched-- some horses $5...maybe $100 on a favorite. And forget the small tracks-- $1 or $2 on some, nothing on others.
Keep in mind that they also take European customers AND that Betfair cut off all California tracks worldwide(until they set up shop in the States).
3. Something is up....after so many years in business, liquidy is almost at rock bottom. But worse, where's all the money from Cris, Mansion, Betfair, etc.?
4. Plus, even if this book's hiring process totally sucked, it's still very unlikely to wind up with so many clueless & unmotivated employees w/o good reason. They likely see the writing on the wall, not caring to attract more customers or money.
5. To say nothing of the American sword of Democles hanging over offshores....

This Mickey Mouse operation ain't cutting it at all.

[Hareeba!]

wow!

some first post that!

so glad I can use Matchbook

but Todd will tell you that BM is better in every way

[LVHerbie]

wow!

some first post that!

so glad I can use Matchbook

but Todd will tell you that BM is better in every way

Brother in law and cousins and knowing every detail about the whole affair and then spend an hour typing up a detailed account? Also he knows all about a dozen other books, exchanges, and offshore world as whole but lets his relative spend three days jumping through all those hoops to get a $100 deposit into a low liquidity exchange? (With the best part being I guess he would have spent another week trying to get the $100 through by any means necessary except cris finally told him to get lost first?)

Come on Hareeba surely even with your own biases his story sounds a little strange to you?

[bobbywaves]

Why is SBR dragging their feet in regards to giving Betmaker a grade?

[relaaxx]

been playing there for awhile. nothing ever changes. they are ok. but that's it. think i wil take funds out. leave a few bucks in for football, live betting. that too, is just ok.

[evo34]

charleslanger -- Shocking that money is a massive pain in the ass to get in and out of a sportsbook. Your brother in law could have had essentially the same conversation with any number of books. I have no idea if they are reliable or not, but nothing in your post seems all that unusual in today's environment.

[jizay]

Looks like the site has been down most of the day? Anybody know anything or have any luck logging in?

[relaaxx]

can't log in - either

[jason1968]

Site still down , what is going on here ?

[bobbywaves]

The Betmaker (SBR rating B+) exchange is currently undergoing maintenance. SBR spoke with Betmaker.ag management, who expect that the exchange will be back online by this afternoon. In the meantime, players are able to call customer service or access support through live chat.

SBR claims Betmaker is rated B+, yet there is no official grade on their ratings page : http://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbooks/

[Inkwell77]

Heard about this site on a Podcast.
Doesn't seem like it has improved much.

The fact that there is no working information on the site about how the exchange works is interesting.

I've never used an exchange and was wondering if it was worth it to use this site?