betonline issues

[justwinthisone]

Rake is like printing money. Having their other users or potential users get scared would cost them much more than 7k.

Tom, my post doesn't make any reference to the hand history, which I didn't personally review. What I said was shady hands or hacked accounts doesnt always = getting your money back. When the book's catch a dumper or colluder and get the balance, they can redistribute funds. For all the times Poker Stars and Party Poker caught someone and gave the money back, there were of course many more times they didn't catch them. That's part of the online poker game even with the best risk mgt poker software. We are seeing what info we can get from BetOnline for the player. On another note, you should try being a little more positive. For every smart thing you contribute you put someone down... symptom of a fear of intimacy and creating friendships I think they say.

I am very happy to hear that you are still trying to see what info you can get from betonline for me. Please keep me informed as to what you find out........

[justwinthisone]

For those of u who has not yet seen the hand history I have been waiting for it starts at #109 of this thread. Check it out

[tomcowley]

Tom, my post doesn't make any reference to the hand history

Your quote references the possibility of this being tiltmonkey spew.

Speaking hypothetically, players have done crazy stuff at the end of their play when they plan to ask for their funds back. We see it in sports too.

which I didn't personally review.

So you decided to post random speculation about the play without even skimming the single-digit number of hands posted ITT

I'm so glad that I, in the time it took me to eat a bagel, was able to spend more time on this issue than you have and do a better job analyzing than Lou did.

What I said was shady hands or hacked accounts doesnt always = getting your money back. When the book's catch a dumper or colluder and get the balance, they can redistribute funds. For all the times Poker Stars and Party Poker caught someone and gave the money back, there were of course many more times they didn't catch them. That's part of the online poker game even with the best risk mgt poker software.

Of course. And Lou being completely incompetent and ragging the OP isn't helping anything. You've also seen situations (BetPhoenix affiliate, for one) where inside info allowed money to be stolen via fraudulent betting. Writing this off as spew, when it looks nothing like spew, instead of getting them to eliminate this possibility is not a good course of action.

On another note, you should try being a little more positive. For every smart thing you contribute you put someone down... symptom of a fear of intimacy and creating friendships I think they say.

Symptom of being annoyed by incompetence (and other things, but ITT, incompetence)

[justwinthisone]

i wonder how long it will take for betonline to act on this......only took about 10 days to get hand history back......

[princecharles]

Wouldn't it make sense to have a policy where you never ever give out your password?
For phone or live chat there can be a 'phone pin' or a couple of 'secret' questions.
This is the only Industry I know of that allows passwords to be so capriciously thrown about.

[justwinthisone]

Wouldn't it make sense to have a policy where you never ever give out your password?
For phone or live chat there can be a 'phone pin' or a couple of 'secret' questions.
This is the only Industry I know of that allows passwords to be so capriciously thrown about.

i agree......they should also have a seperate password to transfer money from sportsbook to poker...

[justwinthisone]

Bill or Lou any word yet? Have you contacted betonline again to bring these hands to their attention? How long do you think this process will take. The longer the issue goes on the harder it will be to correct.......

[slash]

Top bad for you justwinthisone that Justin isn't the one handling your complaint. Then you would have won this one with a landslide.

[justwinthisone]

Top bad for you justwinthisone that Justin isn't the one handling your complaint. Then you would have won this one with a landslide.

lets get him on board.......i just want help......from anyone that can help.....

[Thremp]

Justin is separated from the usual fraud cases. He did touch that 5Dimes case which was clearly fraud by Tony. But he is usually sheltered from the books that are "protected".

[justwinthisone]

Bill or Lou any word yet? Have you contacted betonline again to bring these hands to their attention? How long do you think this process will take. The longer the issue goes on the harder it will be to correct.......

anything???????

[prop]

Unfortunately, complete audits and data requests take time.

The fact they do is the major problem here. This player reported the hack immediately, they lied about the IP, didn't send hand histories and let the funds get away. The industry standard here is NOTHING LIKE how BetOnline operates. When the player was panicking his account was hacked the security department should have been on it instantly and then freezing accounts that are suspect so he can have some refund. This should take minutes - they should have software with that give them full reports on the session to see where all the chips moved, and then know which hands to look at.

I'm sure they scrape things like screen shots of desktop, have MAC address, windows keys or w/e. What are odds this account wasn't associated with any other. Hacker used entirely clean machine. If that's the case it's more suspect - because if I was going hack poker accounts I'd do exactly as the hand histories reflect (and this actually how most hacks occur, and far less obvious than this one), me personally I'd take a couple hands and spew the rest. Thing with BetOnline is they don't do sh.it ever - they are most incompetent gambling sites ever - as in like period. Yes player is responsible for account - but their piss poor support that doesn't do jack reduces any chances of partial recovery. I'm sure there were some ID checks in order as would be everywhere but unfortunately as Lou said "complete audits and data requests take time" [at BetOnline] which sucks and it shouldn't.

A side note: perfect example of why no poker site should ever be asking for passwords via live chat - especially live person software.

[erickvivar]

A side note: perfect example of why no poker site should ever be asking for passwords via live chat - especially live person software.

Agreed. Secret question and answer should be asked, no passwords. Also, reps should not have the option to do ANYTHING that will alter your balance. It is amazing that "A" rated books do not use SSL, ask for passwords and allow money transfers, personal details, etc to be in hands of tier 1 representatives.

[princecharles]

The fact they do is the major problem here. This player reported the hack immediately, they lied about the IP, didn't send hand histories and let the funds get away. The industry standard here is NOTHING LIKE how BetOnline operates. When the player was panicking his account was hacked the security department should have been on it instantly and then freezing accounts that are suspect so he can have some refund. This should take minutes - they should have software with that give them full reports on the session to see where all the chips moved, and then know which hands to look at.

I'm sure they scrape things like screen shots of desktop, have MAC address, windows keys or w/e. What are odds this account wasn't associated with any other. Hacker used entirely clean machine. If that's the case it's more suspect - because if I was going hack poker accounts I'd do exactly as the hand histories reflect (and this actually how most hacks occur, and far less obvious than this one), me personally I'd take a couple hands and spew the rest. Thing with BetOnline is they don't do sh.it ever - they are most incompetent gambling sites ever - as in like period. Yes player is responsible for account - but their piss poor support that doesn't do jack reduces any chances of partial recovery. I'm sure there were some ID checks in order as would be everywhere but unfortunately as Lou said "complete audits and data requests take time" [at BetOnline] which sucks and it shouldn't.

A side note: perfect example of why no poker site should ever be asking for passwords via live chat - especially live person software.

Smart post. As in very smart.

[justwinthisone]

Wouldn't u think at some point between when this first happened and now I would have gotten an email or phone call from a manager? They have such bad customer service and response time. I wonder if I will hear anything back ever....... I sure would like to hear something back...... Even if it is we r going to look further into this. Any form of communication at this point would be nice from betonline.....

[DDT]

Why can't BOL post NASCAR odds earlier in the week like the rest of the books?

[princecharles]

Any new news?

[justwinthisone]

Any new news?

I wish...I have heard nothing from betonline which is no surprise and I have heard nothing from SBR/Bill. I asked them in a couple posts if they have contacted BO to further look into this and have heard nothing......hopefully we get some sort of update today..... Bill any word yet, what is the status?

[justwinthisone]

???????????????????????????????????????? ?

[justwinthisone]

Any new news?

still waiting......i figured we would have got an update from sbr by now........

[justwinthisone]

Rake is like printing money. Having their other users or potential users get scared would cost them much more than 7k.

Tom, my post doesn't make any reference to the hand history, which I didn't personally review. What I said was shady hands or hacked accounts doesnt always = getting your money back. When the book's catch a dumper or colluder and get the balance, they can redistribute funds. For all the times Poker Stars and Party Poker caught someone and gave the money back, there were of course many more times they didn't catch them. That's part of the online poker game even with the best risk mgt poker software. We are seeing what info we can get from BetOnline for the player. On another note, you should try being a little more positive. For every smart thing you contribute you put someone down... symptom of a fear of intimacy and creating friendships I think they say.

I guess i am getting the same service from sbr that i am from betonline?????......i have not heard anything from anyone...... Bill said in this message above that someone would look to see what info could be found but i have not heard a word......i have sent pms asking if they have contacted BO and have not heard anything. i know i am probably irritating the sht out of them by writing as much as I have but I just want to know what is going on. it only take a few seconds to respond...... damn this is frustrating....

[Bill Dozer]

I guess i am getting the same service from sbr that i am from betonline?????......i have not heard anything from anyone...... Bill said in this message above that someone would look to see what info could be found but i have not heard a word......i have sent pms asking if they have contacted BO and have not heard anything. i know i am probably irritating the sht out of them by writing as much as I have but I just want to know what is going on. it only take a few seconds to respond...... damn this is frustrating....

JWTO,
We talked to BetOnline Mgt today. They are still working on ID'ing any ill-gotten gains by a colluder and providing a report. They are a sportsbook first by far and pretty new to the poker world. You're going to have to be patient. If it seems to them someone did hack your computer and then dump, and they do something for you it's going to be, at least some extent, a favor. My advice is to keep that in mind in your strategy here. Feel free to email or call our office.

[mh217]

betonline is such a joke....so many threads on here about players getting their money confiscated due to alleged "chip dumping"..they are so quick to freeze the accts of players who ask for a withdrawal and seize their balance and there was no chip dumping proven...in this case when it looks like chip dumping, and the guy is screaming chip dumping they are saying that no there wasnt any and we dont have the money its gone the other players won it fair and square!!..are you serious you scumbags at betonline???...their goal is to screw this guy and then screw the other guy by saying he benefited from chip dumping!!..in the end the scumbag thieves at betonline get it all either way!!!..way to play both sides of the fence betonline, what a racket!!!

[justwinthisone]

JWTO,
We talked to BetOnline Mgt today. They are still working on ID'ing any ill-gotten gains by a colluder and providing a report. They are a sportsbook first by far and pretty new to the poker world. You're going to have to be patient. If it seems to them someone did hack your computer and then dump, and they do something for you it's going to be, at least some extent, a favor. My advice is to keep that in mind in your strategy here. Feel free to email or call our office.

Bill
Thank you so much for the update. I am trying very hard to be patient but you need to understand it has now been two weeks since this happened and I still have no clue where betonline stands with this issue. They have not responded to any emails and they do not tell me anything when I call. When this first happened they told me this was my own problem without even looking into it. Lou also wrote me off without looking at all the facts. Customer service is huge in any business and Betonline has lacked that through this entire process. I would think this should be a priority for betonline or any other sports book. Making sure your customers can count on the company they are working with is huge. The longer betonline takes to fix this issue the harder it will be to correct. I dont blame betonline for this happening but i do blame them for the way they have handled this up to this point. This issue appears so obvious to me ands that's why I don't get why it is taking so long to fix. I understand betonline is not located in the USA but if this was any company in the USA or any other reputable company anywhere this issue would already be fixed. In my opinion they can still make this right but they need to move quickly. I don't get why you say if they do end up doing something that it would be a "favor." If they do get my money back for me it will be the right thing, not a favor. My only strategy here is to make sure betonline sees the truth and fixes this issue in a timely fashion. Again I want to thank you for looking further into this and I hope we all hear something soon. What is the number I can call in your office? I will probably do that in a few days if I don't hear anything. Thanks

[justwinthisone]

do the managers at betonline work on weekends?

[justwinthisone]

another day and no word.........

[BigDaddy]

this is starting to look like a big black eye for SBR

[Killer_Demo]

this isnt good

[justwinthisone]

this isnt good

not good at all.... 2 and a half weeks and still nothing...... any updates Bill???

[dzzznutz]

and many more my friend

[justwinthisone]

Just heard the verdict from betonline......they just emailed me.....who wants to hear what they decided?

[slash]

Mé!

[justwinthisone]

Ok so here's part of the email they sent me below. I am grateful that I got most of my money back but I wish I got it all back...... Don't get me wrong I am happy to get anything at all back, especially since I got most of it back. There was still a good chunk I did not get back but like I said I am happy to get anything. I also want to thank all of you who supported and believed what I was telling you guys all along. To those who did not you know where you can go.... See part of email below.

"We have investigated your case thoroughly and although we have found no evidence of fraud on our end we have found that the majority of the funds lost in the session in question was lost to a suspect player.* Despite this not being a security issue on our end we have been able to trace some of the funds and pull them back for you.* A total amount of $-,---.-- has been added to your account. Our findings did show that the user who logged into your account for the session in question did this using a different IP and using your username and password."

So like that says they were able to get most of my money back. It also says this was done using a different ip address. Dispite this being a long ugly process I am happy betonline stepped up to the plate and recovered most of my funds......*

[Keith Richard]

Wow...good for you. While they claim this isn't a security issue on their end I really find that hard to believe. Anyone playing poker there has to be out of their minds.... that is unless you are one of the scammers of course.

[justwinthisone]

We reviewed the hand history data, and have forwarded it over to the player. BetOnline is also sending it to the player directly.

• The player's balance was not disposed of in a single or few chip-dumps.
• He played against eleven other players total for approximately three hours.
• The average pot was $217.94 over 163 hands.

In closing, management corrected its initial statement that the player's IP address was the same as used the majority of the time on his account.

The play data itself is not consistent with other alleged hacking cases we've seen, but taking the player's word for him being in bed with his wife at the time, we would only be able to suggest taking a hard look at the security suggestions outlined in this newswire. BetOnline is not responsible for the balance.

Honestly, no. The more you post the more it sounds like a tilted balance.

But again, it doesn't really matter what "I" think --- the industry standard is clear here. There's nothing else to be done, you are responsible for your account.

Lou

You are right it does not matter what you think. The only thing that matters is the truth and now we all know the truth. I am Not sure how you could ever think this was a tilted balance. I came to you for help and all you did was accuse me of lying..... You did not look at all the facts that you were given and never gave me the respect and help i deserved. I can only hope you look into other peoples cases better than you did mine.Anytime you want to man up and apologize I am waiting.