5Dimes - "Bad line" dispute

BigDaddy · 09-26-11, 11:29 AM

that is not a bad line

horja1 · 09-26-11, 11:35 AM

indeed ... they should pay

HedgeHog · 09-26-11, 11:39 AM

OP is correct, but how far should you take it? Is it worth getting the bet reinstated, but having your account closed after it's graded? This is a possible option that Tony will give you. He doesn't like admitting he's wrong. GL, but since you were notified well in advance, it's probably best to let it go.

CrimsonQueen · 09-26-11, 11:44 AM

Tony voided the bet after the game was over and you won? Is this correct? Just want to make sure the facts are straight...

djefferis · 09-26-11, 11:45 AM

OP, what was the opposing side offered @ ?

+615/-585 is clearly a bad line

+615/-880 is clearly not

Either +480 or +615 could make sense here, but if the line was clearly favorable for the player to bet both sides, then its a no brainer. If there was a fair overlay between the offered sides @ +615, you have a legit case.

Was the bet canceled before the event, how long and how soon after the wager was placed ?

If it was canceled before and within a reasonable period of time, then they are within their rights likely, but it's in poor customer service.

Likely they will honor the original bet, and then show you the door or limit you to $50 the next day. Nothing personal, Tony just hates shot takers (as you admit, your bet was +even)

calm · 09-26-11, 11:52 AM

The bet was for tonight's game, so yes it was cancelled well before the event.

I didn't look at the other side of the bet - I bet these every day so didn't think there would be a problem. You're right, if it was an arb to itself then I'm fine with them cancelling. I think it was the +615/-880 case though because there had been some good movement towards the Astros and they were just slow to react.

bubba · 09-26-11, 11:58 AM

Originally posted by calm

The bet was for tonight's game, so yes it was cancelled well before the event.

I didn't look at the other side of the bet - I bet these every day so didn't think there would be a problem. You're right, if it was an arb to itself then I'm fine with them cancelling. I think it was the +615/-880 case though because there had been some good movement towards the Astros and they were just slow to react.

tough to get on them too hard if it was cancelled right after you placed it and so far away from first pitch. op, you know better then me- was the line obvioulsy off? are teams ever +615 -2.5 when they are a small underdog in the game?

BigDaddy · 09-26-11, 12:04 PM

Originally posted by djefferis

Tony just hates shot takers (as you admit, your bet was +even)

so making +ev bets now labels you as a shot taker?

bigboydan · 09-26-11, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

OP is correct, but how far should you take it? Is it worth getting the bet reinstated, but having your account closed after it's graded? This is a possible option that Tony will give you. He doesn't like admitting he's wrong. GL, but since you were notified well in advance, it's probably best to let it go.

That's happens more often than not in regards to paying the player and then closing their account. The question is just how long was that wager left standing before it was canceled. 2 minutes, 2 hours 5 hours? Many of factors involved to be taken into consideration here. Fortunately this gentlemen has filled out a complaint form and we will inquire to 5dimes on his behalf.

LT Profits · 09-26-11, 01:17 PM

Originally posted by djefferis

OP, what was the opposing side offered @ ?

+615/-585 is clearly a bad line

+615/-880 is clearly not

Either +480 or +615 could make sense here, but if the line was clearly favorable for the player to bet both sides, then its a no brainer. If there was a fair overlay between the offered sides @ +615, you have a legit case.

Was the bet canceled before the event, how long and how soon after the wager was placed ?

If it was canceled before and within a reasonable period of time, then they are within their rights likely, but it's in poor customer service.

Likely they will honor the original bet, and then show you the door or limit you to $50 the next day. Nothing personal, Tony just hates shot takers (as you admit, your bet was +even)

How is making a +EV bet shot-taking? If the +EV is on a market price, there is obviously not a problem. The question here is whether it was a bad line or not.

Scooter · 09-26-11, 01:57 PM

djefferis - "Likely they will honor the original bet, and then show you the door or limit you to $50 the next day. Nothing personal, Tony just hates shot takers (as you admit, your bet was +even)"

About as low as it goes for forum "wisdom" - and it's typical.

Plus ev bets are now taking shots at the book.

wrongturn · 09-26-11, 02:33 PM

I believe the size of your bet is the main reason it is cancelled. I am not saying it is correct, but 100 bet he probably let it go.

sharpcircle · 09-26-11, 02:38 PM

clam,

this happened because of your terrible paint skiilz

Mikail · 09-26-11, 02:38 PM

The way I see it 5dimes did nothing wrong. They have the right to refuse a bet if the please. Not to mention they canceled the bet way before the game even started. Just curious as to why you like the Astros so much tonight?

wrongturn · 09-26-11, 02:40 PM

He likes the price, not the team.

durito · 09-26-11, 02:42 PM

Originally posted by Mikail

The way I see it 5dimes did nothing wrong. They have the right to refuse a bet if the please. Not to mention they canceled the bet way before the game even started. Just curious as to why you like the Astros so much tonight?

This is horrible. They can certainly refuse to take bets, they can't just cancel bets after they are accepted because they don't like their position.

When you are the only book offering a line you can't cancel because of a "bad line" unless it's an entry error like +5000 instead of +500.

Mikail · 09-26-11, 02:46 PM

Originally posted by durito

This is horrible. They can certainly refuse to take bets, they can't just cancel bets after they are accepted because they don't like their position.

When you are the only book offering a line you can't cancel because of a "bad line" unless it's an entry error like +5000 instead of +500.

I don't like it either but like you said they are the only book offering this type of line. They should be able to protect themselve. IMO this only becomes an issue if the wager is canceled after it wins. At the same time I do agree they shouldn't hang a line and not honor it.

T4k · 09-26-11, 02:48 PM

Originally posted by Mikail

The way I see it 5dimes did nothing wrong. They have the right to refuse a bet if the please. Not to mention they canceled the bet way before the game even started. Just curious as to why you like the Astros so much tonight?

Now see that's just ******* retarded. Ohh derp herp we are refusing the bet now cause you're a winner, if you lost don't mind us we'd gladly still take your money because we see nothing wrong and we love money.

It's like if i played the lotto and i won. Oh yeah by the way, that 65 million you just won, we're not going to let you take it because you took a shot buying this ticket and you won.

Mikail · 09-26-11, 02:50 PM

Originally posted by T4k

Now see that's just ******* retarded. Ohh derp herp we are refusing the bet now cause you're a winner, if you lost don't mind us we'd gladly still take your money because we see nothing wrong and we love money.

It's like if i played the lotto and i won. Oh yeah by the way, that 65 million you just won, we're not going to let you take it because you took a shot buying this ticket and you won.

this would be the case had they canceled it after the fact. clearly this didn't happen as the bet was voided before the game started.

relaaxx · 09-26-11, 03:01 PM

bet should not have been cancelled. definately not an obivious bad line. now the choices - eat it or moan and groan, maybe get paid and your account is closed. risk/reward this is your choice.

djefferis · 09-26-11, 03:43 PM

Not saying the OP is a shot taker in my opin...just speaking from experience on how 5D views +even players.

I personally have no issue with a guy making a smart bet, Tony on the other hand is known to disapprove of long term winners or sharps. Nothing against the OP, more my feelings on 5D's and how they are great, until you prove yourself to be a player who knows how to win.

raiders72001 · 09-26-11, 05:06 PM

The line is not a bad line. Not a good move on 5Dimes part. They didn't have that much to lose comparing the dollar amount to the percentage of winning the bet.

At least it was cancelled beforehand.

raiders72001 · 09-26-11, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by durito

.

When you are the only book offering a line you can't cancel because of a "bad line" unless it's an entry error like +5000 instead of +500.

Dumb post.

You can compare the ML/Total to past lines to determine what -2.5 should be. It's not exact, but you can get in the ballpark. If the line is off by 20%, then it's definitely a bad line.

durito · 09-26-11, 05:27 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

Dumb post.

You can compare the ML/Total to past lines to determine what -2.5 should be. It's not exact, but you can get in the ballpark. If the line is off by 20%, then it's definitely a bad line.

Why don't you tell us what the fair line should be.

raiders72001 · 09-26-11, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by durito

why don't you tell us what the fair line should be.

+/- 504

avndly99 · 09-26-11, 06:03 PM

If I make a mistake and bet the wrong game, or I get the date wrong and bet tomorrows game instead of todays, they won't cancel the bet for me. Sure enough it's my mistake, but I think it's their mistake for offering something they aren't willing honour.

durito · 09-26-11, 06:13 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

+/- 504

How many people have to help you to figure out the no vig line of 5dimes current price? I´m sure that´s a much better estimate than whatever clam used.

So, that would not come close to making a bad line now would it?

raiders72001 · 09-26-11, 06:16 PM

Originally posted by durito

So, that would not come close to making a bad line now would it?

as I said, it's not a bad line. If you need help with anything else, then let me know.

durito · 09-26-11, 06:22 PM

Originally posted by raiders72001

as I said, it's not a bad line. If you need help with anything else, then let me know.

Why are you even posting here? Go back to discussing sports with the other 50 year old former high school athletes.

Justin7 · 09-26-11, 06:31 PM

It is tough to argue bad line in this case. The relative error was small (less than the theoretical hold), and there is no market to compare it to. Under those facts, I wouldn't void this wager, even if as a linesman, I misread my chart, and put in +615 instead of +480.

BET THE HOOK · 09-26-11, 07:11 PM

I absolutely agree with Justin7. Also if I make a bet and then decide later I dont like the line I got after it moved I cant cancel and make the bet over. The wager should stand.

ehp6737 · 09-26-11, 07:28 PM

The wager was cancelled before the event. So there is no issue here. If it was cancelled after event started than you would be entitled to that price. Simple as that.

durito · 09-26-11, 07:32 PM

Originally posted by ehp6737

The wager was cancelled before the event. So there is no issue here. If it was cancelled after event started than you would be entitled to that price. Simple as that.

That is completely ridiculous. Whats to prevent books from then canceling every wager that they have a bad position on before every game.

ehp6737 · 09-26-11, 08:18 PM

Originally posted by durito

That is completely ridiculous. Whats to prevent books from then canceling every wager that they have a bad position on before every game.

I'm simply stating every book, including 5Dimes, lists in their terms that they have the right to do exactly what they did here. They make the rules and unfortunately we have to play by them. Now, you guys can bust out your calculators and spend all night figuring out a fair market price for this wager and try to determine if it was a bad line or not.

What I'm simply stating is that it doesnt matter. The book made it's decision before the event took place and that's that, case closed. OP filed a complaint about a wager for an event before it even took place?

That's a first.

What you need to understand is that this specific example is not a "wagering" issue, but a "CS" issue. No money was won or lost. Now the player has the right to feel that he was slighted and he has the right to take his business elsewhere. That's business in general. But they're not under any obligation to do so given their published wagering rules in reference to this subject. Do you remember last year when BestBuy.com mistakenly listed an electronic (I forget what it was) for $29.99 instead of $299.99 and thousands of people put in cc info and quickly purchased it. Except when they realized their mistake BestBuy cited "egregious error" and didnt honor the purchases? They made a choice to cite policy instead of using good customer service and biting the bullet on that one. Obviously, this situation isnt as drastic in price difference, but it's the same logic.