5Dimes stole 14 500 USD

[Grandmaster B]

Originally Posted by WVU
Please wait for a site operator to respond.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Rommel'
Rommel: Hello. How may I assist you today?
Hana: Hello Rommel
Rommel: Hello
Hana: I just come here to check my account and I wanted to bet some money on ice hockey
Hana: but I logged, everything seemend normal, opened another window in browser just to check news
Hana: clicked back here into 5 dimes and see what I got:
Hana: Sportsbook Wagering Suspended Sportsbook wagering has been suspended. Please contact customer service for more information.
Rommel: Yes you need to speak with our General Manager regarding the status of your account
Hana: and also on that top menu there is nothing but cashier and account...
Rommel: Allow me a minute to transfer the chat to him
Hana: eh?
Chat InformationPlease wait while I transfer the chat to 'Tony'.
Chat InformationYou are now chatting with 'Tony'
Tony: greetings, I'm the general manager
Hana: hello
Tony: "All Internet wagers must be placed through the user interface provided by 5Dimes Sportsbook & Casino on its Web pages. Any Internet wagering through other means, including the use of a "robot" player, is strictly forbidden. In the event that use of non-approved client software is detected, Management reserves the right to invalidate all such wagers retroactively, cancel the player's account, or take any other appropriate action."
Tony: http://www.5dimes.com/rules.html
Tony: winnings using the robot have been removed
Tony: your balance and pending balance has been reset to zero
Tony: your account is closed
Hana: excuse me
Hana: slower please tony
Hana: I did not even read first paragraph
Tony: that is all that needs to be said
Tony: read it at your leisure
Hana: what is going on?
Tony: you used a robot to play
Tony: that is not permitted at per the user agreement rule listed on the website
Hana: what are you talking about
Hana: what robot?
Hana: you must be crazy
Tony: so all winnings from video poker using this "device" to play 20000 hands a day are invalid
Tony: the account is closed
Hana: just because I won like 5 thousands USD that is usage of ROBOT?
Tony: yes, i designed the games
Tony: i know the pay tables
Tony: robots are not permitted
Hana: Idid no use any robot oh my god
Tony: any other statements i need to know from you before I close this chat?
Hana: you must be crazy
Tony: anything else?
Hana: if you mean this by real I just give you to court
Hana: and send all this to sports book review
Tony: ok, please do
Hana: you play to be best sports book
Hana: but close my account with 14 thousands???
Tony: robot play, its closed
Hana: that is very good joke
Hana: NO ROBOT PLAY
Tony: no its not a joke, send all the details to sportsbook review
Tony: or any other site you wish
Hana: just because I played 20 thousands hands a day that is robot play???
Hana: that is no problem tony
Tony: all casino play is invalid based on the use of a robot engine to play your hands
Hana: speciall version of video poker I play
Tony: not any more, your account is closed
Tony: i look forward to hearing from sportsbook review on this matter
Hana: look
Hana: right before I asked this withdrawal today
Tony: and when i do, we'll be sure to add your name to a "robot player list"
Hana: I won 250 on fruit slot
Tony: which i'll be sure to send around to all other operations
Hana: so how about this for example?
Hana: I also won on ice hockey
Hana: so damn! you are going to take all my money?? just because I played a LOT HANDS?
Tony: your net winnings on video poker using the robot exceeds your available balance
Tony: so any other winnings would not bring you to a positive balance
Hana: that is totally silly
Hana: how can I tell you I did not use any ROBOT???
Hana: and tell me one thing
Hana: why should I use robot?
Tony: if your net winnings using the robot did not exceed this amount, then the positive balance from your other plays would be honored
Hana: send me any evidence
Tony: we both know the payout is above 100% on this game
Hana: yes
Hana: so why do you have that game?
Tony: people who play not using a robot lose
Hana: oh my god
Tony: so when we hear from sportsbook review, your name will go onto a list we share with other operations
Hana: so only because I am smart and know how to play it then I am guilty???
Tony: then sportsbook review will be presented with the evidence
Hana: so send an evidence to me
Hana: you are telling me I was playing 20 000 hands a day
Tony: when they see the play history, they'll conclude its a robot
Tony: and its case closed
Hana: yes, you are right
Tony: so i look forward to contact from sportsbook review, and placing your name in a negative database for robot players
Hana: but it doesnt mean I played it by using robot
Tony: good day to you, there will be no further repsonses
Hana: did you even try that game?
Hana: there is nothing to be thinked about!!!
Hana: just please look at your game
Hana: it is not my fault that you set payout over 100%
Hana: I only found this game and so I played it
Hana: but if you take a look on it you know that there is nothing really difficult to decide about perfect play
Hana: just hold one deuce or hold at least two to royal flush
Hana: trada
Hana: that is all!
Hana: !
Hana: you dont need robot to play that simple game!
Hana: and I did not use any robot at all!!!

[mojomaker11]

Doesn't seem like you would even need a bot.

[Grandmaster B]

Doesn't seem like you would even need a bot.

Tony: people who play not using a robot lose

[Grandmaster B]

SBR hello hello anyone there?? This is your bread and butter book why has noone commented on this??

[SBR Lou]

5Dimes tells us that Digital Gaming Solutions, the casino software provider, is assisting in exporting every hand the player played in a publicly accessible format. There have been some technical issues caused by attempting to export that volume of hands, but they hope to have it all posted for the public ASAP.

[soxwin1917]

5Dimes tells us that Digital Gaming Solutions, the casino software provider, is assisting in exporting every hand the player played in a publicly accessible format. There have been some technical issues caused by attempting to export that volume of hands, but they hope to have it all posted for the public ASAP.

What would anything within that data prove? I think in general people in this thread ASSUME he played with perfect strategy (since the game is so simple) In any case, thanks for working on this Lou.

[trixtrix]

varying speed of play could be indicative of human/vs bot use, i will also accept 5dimes +ev payout makes this a structurally dissimilar case from easystreet.

[ncsubowen]

It's ignorant because your original comment was this:

"Stop with that crap. If you're stupid enough to bet on a rigged sport, expect to get screwed. The lines should never have been posted and you shouldn't have ever bet on them."


No one should expect to get screwed when a book throws a line out there. The problem is the book putting up a line with nebulous interpretation of their rules that (what a shock) favors the book with their ruling. In retrospect, maybe the book shouldn't have put the line out, but once it does, then no bettor should "expect to get screwed" when they bet into said line.

It was only a bad idea to the extent that Tony interpreted the rules in a way that allowed him to avoid paying out a multitude of bets from +1000 all the way through +140 or so.

I'll concede poor choice of words here but my opinion stands. 5dimes should not have offered lines and people should have been smarter than to bet them.

[roanildinho]

Absolutely dumb. He should get paid

[trixtrix]

I'll concede poor choice of words here but my opinion stands. 5dimes should not have offered lines and people should have been smarter than to bet them.

if a business offered a new IPAD for 50$, the potential customers are responsible for taking advantage of an unwise business decision?

[sharpcat]

5Dimes tells us that Digital Gaming Solutions, the casino software provider, is assisting in exporting every hand the player played in a publicly accessible format. There have been some technical issues caused by attempting to export that volume of hands, but they hope to have it all posted for the public ASAP.

Justin7 absolutely buried easystreet within 2 days of receiving their complaint without allowing them a chance to clear their name or compile evidence.

Why is it that SBR has not buried 5dimes yet? Why is Justin7 not handling this case?

Seriously Justin7 buried Easystreet within 2 days of the story being released yet a SBR sponsor 5 dimes is accused of the same thing and SBR just shrugs it off for several days????????? WTF


Has all of this B.S.about easystreet really been about principle or has it all been about stealing web traffic and strong arming for affiliation?

[ncsubowen]

if a business offered a new IPAD for 50$, the potential customers are responsible for taking advantage of an unwise business decision?

They would be unwise to send that company $50 and expect an ipad.

[ouman101]

Justin7 absolutely buried easystreet within 2 days of receiving their complaint without allowing them a chance to clear their name or compile evidence. Why is it that SBR has not buried 5dimes yet? Why is Justin7 not handling this case? Seriously Justin7 buried Easystreet within 2 days of the story being released yet a SBR sponsor 5 dimes is accused of the same thing and SBR just shrugs it off for several days????????? WTF Has all of this B.S.about easystreet really been about principle or has it all been about stealing web traffic and strong arming for affiliation?

Maybe you should take into account that 5Dimes is cooperating with the investigation and EZStreet straight up told them to fuk off, someone else was handling it. Or maybe it was the countless lies that they told SBR. Ever think of that dipshit?

Jesus dude, you have the whole world figured out don't you?

[runner5k]

Justin7 absolutely buried easystreet within 2 days of receiving their complaint without allowing them a chance to clear their name or compile evidence.

Why is it that SBR has not buried 5dimes yet? Why is Justin7 not handling this case?

Seriously Justin7 buried Easystreet within 2 days of the story being released yet a SBR sponsor 5 dimes is accused of the same thing and SBR just shrugs it off for several days????????? WTF


Has all of this B.S.about easystreet really been about principle or has it all been about stealing web traffic and strong arming for affiliation?

Not taking sides on this case yet but where do you get Justin7 burying easystreet after only 2 days from the complaint? I know he released his video about the RX decision 2 days after Wilheim put out his decision but that was several weeks after this complaint was raised...

[SBR Lou]

Seriously Justin7 buried Easystreet within 2 days of the story being released yet a SBR sponsor 5 dimes is accused of the same thing and SBR just shrugs it off for several days?

Sharpcat,

Despite my fear that a reply could in any way lend your baseless remark credence, I'd bet my last dollar Justin spent more time on that dispute than any mediator, (nameless) expert, or watchdog in this industry. Your post baffles me since the entire dispute process was aired on this board for public consumption, as this one will be.

Moving on from that, conspiracy theorists are welcomed to air their skepticism without fear of censorship. No post will be edited, no thread will be locked. Unlike other disputes held via different venues, this dispute will unfold before you all.

5Dimes management tells us a query was written for them by DGS to export every hand without locking up the back-end software. As soon as the hand history becomes available, if the player consents it will be posted in unabridged format. There isn't going to be a dog and pony show here.

We added the link to Bill's comments in the 1st post to save from posters believing (without reading each page) that SBR is in some way avoiding this thread. I'll again link those comments below:

Hi zabula, If there is any doubt that you did use a bot, 5Dimes will pay 100% of the winnings.

5Dimes will be sending us your hand history and be the official mediator if you agree. With your permission, we'll share your hand history publicly.

SBR is not going to talk about data that only the book has or mystery experts. This will be transparent and information will be public as all disputes are. 5Dimes has consistently paid at the conclusion of complicated disputes leaning toward the player. 5Dimes already said they will pay if there is doubt on whether the player used a bot.

This is a pending case anyone will be able to review. Long time readers of the board know that 5D has paid big figures after a player took advantage of obvious loopholes or misconfigurations.

Has all of this B.S.about easystreet really been about principle or has it all been about stealing web traffic and strong arming for affiliation?

Though no conclusion or resolution has yet been made--since we at SBR have not even seen the hands yet ourselves--our video team is already preparing a preliminary report on this dispute to showcase the few facts we are all privy to at this time. That news update should be available prior to this weekend.

[Justin7]

Also... While this dispute was not assigned to me, I am involved in it. I suggested to 5dimes that they make the hand history available as soon as possible. This is a little more complex than the last case though -- if you recall, the EZ case had between 8k and 20k hands, depending on who you looked at. This one has about 20k hands per day, for about a month (if my quick skim memory is right).

The first thing we want to do is get the hand history up where everyone can personally review it to draw their own conclusions. Unlike the EZ dispute, 5Dimes is attempting to provide that. Once that is up, we will review it carefully. SBR will discuss it. We'll look at pro players to see their take on it.

If there is not compelling proof that a bot was used, this one is easy. Pay the player.

If 5dimes proves that the player used a bot, the case gets more interesting.

The process will be transparent. It will be fair. I stake my reputation on it.

[dikefale]

Hopefully Zabula will get his money.

[BigFish]

20,000 hands per day -- for a month!?! Wow! OP is a video poker machine! (pardon the unfortunate pun)

Prior to reading Justin7's post, I was under the impression that it was 20k hands during a single day. This WILL get interesting.

Then again, as I think about it, I'm not sure how much it matters whether it
was 20k hands one day, or 30 days
straight. After all, if it is humanly
possible to do it for a day, wouldn't it
necessarily be humanly possible to do
it for 30 days? Looking forward to
hearing what the real VP pros think, and
looking forward to the release of
evidence and ensuing debate!

[Dark Horse]

This one has about 20k hands per day, for about a month (if my quick skim memory is right).

SBR book should have a prop on this one. Bot or no bot.

[runner5k]

Holy shit 20k hands for a month...thats going to be one bigass file to compile.
OP if you played that many for a month my hat is off to you!

[Monte]

What's wrong about a bot anyway?
If the game is beatable, it's their own fault if the bot goes on a lucky streak...pay the man you scumbag Tony.

[KGambler]

Lou, did 5Dimes realize that the game had a player advantage of ~12.7%?

[KGambler]

Justin7 absolutely buried easystreet within 2 days of receiving their complaint without allowing them a chance to clear their name or compile evidence.

Wow. You just keep spreading lies about that case. WTF is wrong with you?

[rick50time]

just use bookmaker they pay all the time..

[bettilimbroke999]

Using a bot at a -EV game as a reason not to pay a winner is ridiculous, if the game is +EV then 5Dimes is crazy for offering it and should still pay the player, either way downgrade these scumbags to F- if the players check isnt in the mail by Friday

For a site to even pull this kinda stunt just proves they care nothing about their reputation and are just thieves

[bracerman]

Thanks for the updates Lou & Justin7.

[testme]

oo

jesus and i htough 5dimes was good! trash

[Nittany Lion]

I'll never everrrrr deposit at 5Dimes and I'll make sure I never suggest them to any of my gambling buddies. That Tony guy is such an ass, and I don't even care if it turns out the OP was using a bot. If they don't want people using bots why don't they put something in place to stop it? All the major websites use captcha's to stop bots from creating accounts or spamming, for those that don't know what a captcha is, they are those funky images you see with numbers/letters that you have to type before you create an account on most websites.

The 5Dimes software should generate automatic captcha's if it suspects a bot is playing. If it determines a player is playing to fast to be human or whatever then it should generate an automatic captcha every so often. How hard can that be to do?

This thread is just another reason why you should stay away from online casino's, just bet in the sportsbook and maybe a little in poker.

[clowncar]

The hands per hour and per day are clearly doable. So they will have to provide some other evidence that a bot was in use and given the auto-hold and ease of strategy it eliminates any error evaluation being a determining factor.

They will have to find some other way of proving it was a bot.

[Counterfeit Cash]

wow, this should be fun

[excel]

pay him, so simple

[justonetime]

20k hands everyday for 30 days....that's dedication.

[jairocon]

Maybe 5dimes should allow SBR experts (or some VP player pros) to play the "old version" of the game with play money or test account money for a few hours... and compare that data to the OP's data. Then they should also let a robot play if there is one and compare that. My worry is, that 5dimes probably changed the programing of the original game so much that now not only is the payout different, they could have even slowed down the dealing process so that the dealing speeds are not comparable to what they used to be... again just a theory.

[blix177]

Maybe he has some Chinese farmer from Everquest, or Wow, or some other MMORPG game playing for him.

[LegitBet]

I'm already assuming strategy will not prove to be a telling factor in the hand history.
With that I am left with one less variable for why the HH is so anxiously anticipated.
I am speculating that if the exact amount of time was spent on each hand ( to the millisecond ), regardless of the hand's complexity, and this exact time per hand exists throughout the HH, that would be evidence of non-human play.