5Dimes stole 14 500 USD

**Kaabee** · 05-10-11, 03:27 PM

cyberinvestor, he was playing a game that is extremely simple. no thinking involved. you just auto hold deuces and if you have more royal cards than deuces you play those. the vast majority of the time it is either keep the deuces or redraw all. that means the vast majority of hands will be played in well under 4 seconds.

**blix177** · 05-10-11, 03:43 PM

Dang I was hoping to reach a conclusion at the end of this post.

**BrianLaverty** · 05-10-11, 04:03 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

If that is true then he had to be cranking hands. As I understand it he did 20,000 in 24 hours. That is 13.88 hands per minute (4.32 seconds per hand). If he stopped for one hour combined during the 24 for breaks, lunch, etc. that means he then needs to do one hand around 4 seconds. In standard poker online you get a little break while other people are playing. You can sip a drink, take a break, bathroom, whatever. It is much easier to put in a crash 24 hour poker session because you have even a few minutes between hands if you fold your hand early. In video poker you are running hands every 4.32 seconds to keep this pace. I don't see how a human could keep that pace for 24 hours. Maybe 2,3,4,5 but 24 straight without slowing? Doesn't it take a few seconds for the cards to pop up and so on? I mean the cards are dealt, you scan them, his deal and then bet again. Doing that in 4 seconds for hours on end is awesome. Again, I am not saying it isn't possible. It's just amazing someone could do it.

I take it you don't know much about online poker.

There are people grinding out up to 40 tables at a time.... Theres no breaks in between while waiting... there is literally no time that goes by where you dont have to make a decision. They play LIKE robots, but aren't... wouldnt be surprised if this is the case with this guy. Then again, if Tony is beat, he will pay... so there might be more to the story then meets the eye.

Watch this for poker multitabling...

**cyberinvestor** · 05-10-11, 04:09 PM

Originally posted by Kaabee

cyberinvestor, he was playing a game that is extremely simple. no thinking involved. you just auto hold deuces and if you have more royal cards than deuces you play those. the vast majority of the time it is either keep the deuces or redraw all. that means the vast majority of hands will be played in well under 4 seconds.

I know it is possible and have said that in every post. Just to think there are people playing online video poker for 20,000 hands over 24 hours astonishes me. I could see playing for a few hours at 4 seconds a hand but at some point doesn't a person get tired, hungry, need to take a leak? When you do it for 4 seconds a hand for an entire day just amazes me at the person who does it. There has to be a better way to harness that ability instead of playing video poker that nobody will pay off on because they think you are a robot.

Thank you for a dialogue though, something I haven't gotten from many others.

Eventually we will see how this is ruled on. I am wondering why Justin7 hasn't updated the forum given how hot this topic is.

**cyberinvestor** · 05-10-11, 04:16 PM

Originally posted by BrianLaverty

I take it you don't know much about online poker. There are people grinding out up to 40 tables at a time.... Theres no breaks in between while waiting... there is literally no time that goes by where you dont have to make a decision. They play LIKE robots, but aren't... wouldnt be surprised if this is the case with this guy. Then again, if Tony is beat, he will pay... so there might be more to the story then meets the eye. Watch this for poker multitabling...

It is amazing people can do it and again I know possible. The problem is why do these video poker guys do it when they know they will be accused of using a bot? First cory1111 does it and now this guy. When are the video poker guys going to realize they cannot be madmen playing online video poker otherwise they are not going to get paid?

ATTENTION VIDEO POKER PLAYERS: While you may be able to play 20,000 hands or more per day, if you do most books are going to accuse you of using a bot and void your winnings. So either slow down to a more "normal" and accepted pace (my video poker friends can tell me how many hands a typical blue hair will play in an hour) and still keep your +EV or don't play. It's wonderful that what you are doing it legit and you aren't using a robot but nobody will believe you and even if you prove your case (which will be hard) you will probably still not get paid. Unless you deal with an A+ book and prove your case to SBR your chances of getting paid will be about as high as me spending an entire day playing video poker.

I agree that the right thing will happen pending SBR's review but I wonder why there hasn't been an update yet. Has a complaint been filed? Is this a dead issue?

**wiffle** · 05-10-11, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

If that is true then he had to be cranking hands. As I understand it he did 20,000 in 24 hours. That is 13.88 hands per minute (4.32 seconds per hand). If he stopped for one hour combined during the 24 for breaks, lunch, etc. that means he then needs to do one hand around 4 seconds.

In standard poker online you get a little break while other people are playing. You can sip a drink, take a break, bathroom, whatever. It is much easier to put in a crash 24 hour poker session because you have even a few minutes between hands if you fold your hand early. In video poker you are running hands every 4.32 seconds to keep this pace. I don't see how a human could keep that pace for 24 hours. Maybe 2,3,4,5 but 24 straight without slowing? Doesn't it take a few seconds for the cards to pop up and so on? I mean the cards are dealt, you scan them, his deal and then bet again. Doing that in 4 seconds for hours on end is awesome.

Again, I am not saying it isn't possible. It's just amazing someone could do it.

lol, monotabling ftw. 4 seconds is also very slow for what this guy was playing.

look up rs03rs03, he "plays" up to 120 tables at once

**wiffle** · 05-10-11, 04:24 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

It is amazing people can do it and again I know possible. The problem is why do these video poker guys do it when they know they will be accused of using a bot? First cory1111 does it and now this guy. When are the video poker guys going to realize they cannot be madmen playing online video poker otherwise they are not going to get paid?

ATTENTION VIDEO POKER PLAYERS: While you may be able to play 20,000 hands or more per day, if you do most books are going to accuse you of using a bot and void your winnings. So either slow down to a more "normal" and accepted pace (my video poker friends can tell me how many hands a typical blue hair will play in an hour) and still keep your +EV or don't play. It's wonderful that what you are doing it legit and you aren't using a robot but nobody will believe you and even if you prove your case (which will be hard) you will probably still not get paid. Unless you deal with an A+ book and prove your case to SBR your chances of getting paid will be about as high as me spending an entire day playing video poker.

I agree that the right thing will happen pending SBR's review but I wonder why there hasn't been an update yet. Has a complaint been filed? Is this a dead issue?

lolwat

**cyberinvestor** · 05-10-11, 04:25 PM

What do you mean? It is true. If this guy really did play the 20,000 hands and it cannot be proven to SBR he isn't going to get paid. So my point is why spend the time playing because it appears these robot accusations are getting more frequent.

It is not a matter of whether someone can do it. If the book believes it then you are screwed. You have no leg to stand on unless you play with an A+ book and time will tell here regarding this 5Dimes issue as to what happens and how even in an A+ book incident.

**wiffle** · 05-10-11, 04:33 PM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

How many hours straight do they play?

rs03rs03 would play almost all day last year, mostly on $1 DoNs catapulting him to legend status. he doesnt play as much now and hes not very good

**lt56** · 05-10-11, 04:46 PM

Originally posted by barcelonafc

what a stupid idiot u really are, i know a pro player who plays that. how do u know he cant play this amount of hands.

remember everyone doubted cory?

sbr ruled in his favour.

stop making retarded comments, have u tried to do it???

The stupid idiot would be you for believing this bs and for anyone who's life was so lacking that they would make such a stupid claim. Absolutely no one plays 20,000 hands over the course of 16 hours non stop and continues this every day for a week straight. Either the computer crashes or the person falls asleep. Anyone who would believe that someone would play 140,000 straight hands at 16 hours/day for an entire week is just a complete sucker. He obviously used a robot. The guy tried to rip off a book with a robot and the book is right to tell him to go f**k himself and to warn other books about him. And reading his responses back to Tony shows he's a liar; when messaging back with Tony he rarely directly answered anything that Tony asked him. When people do not answer simple questions; it usually means they're lying.

**ucbearcats1027** · 05-10-11, 05:26 PM

so im guesing u didnt get paid? f tony he is a scumbag and i got the best of that book for sure

**Numenor80** · 05-10-11, 05:31 PM

I almost guarantee they will. Legit book!

**wiffle** · 05-10-11, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by lt56

The stupid idiot would be you for believing this bs and for anyone who's life was so lacking that they would make such a stupid claim. Absolutely no one plays 20,000 hands over the course of 16 hours non stop and continues this every day for a week straight. Either the computer crashes or the person falls asleep. Anyone who would believe that someone would play 140,000 straight hands at 16 hours/day for an entire week is just a complete sucker. He obviously used a robot. The guy tried to rip off a book with a robot and the book is right to tell him to go f**k himself and to warn other books about him. And reading his responses back to Tony shows he's a liar; when messaging back with Tony he rarely directly answered anything that Tony asked him. When people do not answer simple questions; it usually means they're lying.

there are many people who play for just as long except they are playing 24+ tables at a time and actually having to make decisions. this guy is making no decisions just clicking buttons and making free money (although the swongs are bad)

**WVU** · 05-10-11, 06:02 PM

Originally posted by lt56

The stupid idiot would be you for believing this bs and for anyone who's life was so lacking that they would make such a stupid claim. Absolutely no one plays 20,000 hands over the course of 16 hours non stop and continues this every day for a week straight. Either the computer crashes or the person falls asleep. Anyone who would believe that someone would play 140,000 straight hands at 16 hours/day for an entire week is just a complete sucker. He obviously used a robot. The guy tried to rip off a book with a robot and the book is right to tell him to go f**k himself and to warn other books about him. And reading his responses back to Tony shows he's a liar; when messaging back with Tony he rarely directly answered anything that Tony asked him. When people do not answer simple questions; it usually means they're lying.

I have not seen it stated anywhere that this guy played 140,000 hands in a week. Where did you see this? maybe we should wait for the full report before we throw numbers out

**Slainte** · 05-11-11, 02:10 AM

Who said it has to be one person playing all 140 000 hands per week, i don't see a problem if someone else friend or family replace him for few hours, with this simple strategy of holding just aces and royal draws everyone can do it even his granny. I don't see a problem with the book in this case. Of course it's just my personal assumption.

**Maniac** · 05-11-11, 03:15 AM

Originally posted by Slainte

Who said it has to be one person playing all 140 000 hands per week, i don't see a problem if someone else friend or family replace him for few hours, with this simple strategy of holding just aces and royal draws everyone can do it even his granny. I don't see a problem with the book in this case. Of course it's just my personal assumption.

Having never played at 5Dimes I cant confirm what their rules say - but the majority of books I know do have another rule in place whereby you are not allowed to let anyone else have your account details, or otherwise use your account.

Now, of course in the vast majority of cases it is very very very tricky for the book to prove anyone else has been usiing his account - but in a situation like this then I would be very careful about using that as a defence without double checking exactly what the terms and conditions were that you agreed to when you signed up.

(what do you mean you didnt read them and just agreed blindly

)

**horja1** · 05-11-11, 03:36 AM

Originally posted by lt56

The stupid idiot would be you for believing this bs and for anyone who's life was so lacking that they would make such a stupid claim. Absolutely no one plays 20,000 hands over the course of 16 hours non stop and continues this every day for a week straight. Either the computer crashes or the person falls asleep. Anyone who would believe that someone would play 140,000 straight hands at 16 hours/day for an entire week is just a complete sucker. He obviously used a robot. The guy tried to rip off a book with a robot and the book is right to tell him to go f**k himself and to warn other books about him. And reading his responses back to Tony shows he's a liar; when messaging back with Tony he rarely directly answered anything that Tony asked him. When people do not answer simple questions; it usually means they're lying.

You must be joking ... some people would do a lot more for a lot less money than just click a computer button for 16 straight hours/day, 7 days/week ... in some parts of the world there are probably people doing 16 hours/day heavy work for 10 USD/day in worse conditions, and that's not killing them ...

**horja1** · 05-11-11, 03:40 AM

Originally posted by cyberinvestor

It is amazing people can do it and again I know possible. The problem is why do these video poker guys do it when they know they will be accused of using a bot? First cory1111 does it and now this guy. When are the video poker guys going to realize they cannot be madmen playing online video poker otherwise they are not going to get paid?

ATTENTION VIDEO POKER PLAYERS: While you may be able to play 20,000 hands or more per day, if you do most books are going to accuse you of using a bot and void your winnings. So either slow down to a more "normal" and accepted pace (my video poker friends can tell me how many hands a typical blue hair will play in an hour) and still keep your +EV or don't play. It's wonderful that what you are doing it legit and you aren't using a robot but nobody will believe you and even if you prove your case (which will be hard) you will probably still not get paid. Unless you deal with an A+ book and prove your case to SBR your chances of getting paid will be about as high as me spending an entire day playing video poker.

I agree that the right thing will happen pending SBR's review but I wonder why there hasn't been an update yet. Has a complaint been filed? Is this a dead issue?

Actually it is not that hard to prove it if you can play 20000+ hands/day ... just take a camera and film yourself for a day and you have your proof.

**Wulfman14** · 05-11-11, 04:14 AM

Originally posted by horja1

Actually it is not that hard to prove it if you can play 20000+ hands/day ... just take a camerand film yourself for a day and you have your proof.

yea if i ever decide to do degenerative gaming like this i'll just turn my video cam on and record it

. if 5D cant prove he used a bot then they better pay. stop offering +EV games that is all there is to it. tony even admitted that the game favored the player.

how do you really prove bot use though that is the question lingering in my mind.

**justonetime** · 05-11-11, 05:06 AM

Time to fly the OP to Costa Rica to prove he can do this.

**LegitBet** · 05-11-11, 06:49 AM

Originally posted by horja1

Actually it is not that hard to prove it if you can play 20000+ hands/day ... just take a camera and film yourself for a day and you have your proof.

This is actually a very good idea, even a couple of hours videotaped could preemptively nip a possible no pay right in the bud.
Good idea

**cyberinvestor** · 05-11-11, 07:02 AM

Originally posted by horja1

Actually it is not that hard to prove it if you can play 20000+ hands/day ... just take a camera and film yourself for a day and you have your proof.

Very good idea. I think if anyone wants to play video poker online, at this level (over 5,000 hands per day) then they should video tape every second. All you would need is a camera pointed at the monitor so everyone could see the bets and wins and then make sure your mouse and keyboard are in the frame as well. That would be some rock solid evidence. It would work for a little until these books get burned big time by these types of players and then they will change the game. However until then it could be a profitable venture for these guys.

**vitalyo** · 05-11-11, 07:43 AM

Originally posted by BrianLaverty

I take it you don't know much about online poker.

There are people grinding out up to 40 tables at a time.... Theres no breaks in between while waiting... there is literally no time that goes by where you dont have to make a decision. They play LIKE robots, but aren't... wouldnt be surprised if this is the case with this guy. Then again, if Tony is beat, he will pay... so there might be more to the story then meets the eye.

Watch this for poker multitabling...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X61dI...eature=related

Cool video . This one is better 9min video playing 51 tables at the time . Making wagers SELECTIVELY jumping from table to table .
Amazing .
GL.

**stevenash** · 05-11-11, 07:52 AM

Originally posted by HedgeHog

Can't wait for the Justin vid on this one!

**stevenash** · 05-11-11, 07:53 AM

Originally posted by justonetime

Time to fly the OP to Costa Rica to prove he can do this.

Take Cory with him

**ncsubowen** · 05-11-11, 08:29 AM

Originally posted by KEdge2k

I'm sorry, this is complete ignorance.

How so? How many of you either lost money or had your accounts closed over this?

Last I checked, if it looks like a bad idea and turns out to be a bad idea, it was a bad idea.

**KEdge2k** · 05-11-11, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by ncsubowen

How so? How many of you either lost money or had your accounts closed over this?

Last I checked, if it looks like a bad idea and turns out to be a bad idea, it was a bad idea.

It's ignorant because your original comment was this:

"Stop with that crap. If you're stupid enough to bet on a rigged sport, expect to get screwed. The lines should never have been posted and you shouldn't have ever bet on them."

No one should expect to get screwed when a book throws a line out there. The problem is the book putting up a line with nebulous interpretation of their rules that (what a shock) favors the book with their ruling. In retrospect, maybe the book shouldn't have put the line out, but once it does, then no bettor should "expect to get screwed" when they bet into said line.

It was only a bad idea to the extent that Tony interpreted the rules in a way that allowed him to avoid paying out a multitude of bets from +1000 all the way through +140 or so.

**donkdown** · 05-11-11, 01:25 PM

SBR hello hello anyone there?? This is your bread and butter book why has noone commented on this??

**SBR Lou** · 05-11-11, 02:17 PM

Originally posted by donkdown

SBR hello hello anyone there?? This is your bread and butter book why has noone commented on this??

You likely missed the posts by Bill and Justin. Many posters are coming to the thread without reading all 7 pages, just looking for the last few replies.

I'll quote the most relevant SBR post thus far for you:

Originally posted by Bill Dozer

Hi zabula, If there is any doubt that you did use a bot, 5Dimes will pay 100% of the winnings.

5Dimes will be sending us your hand history and be the official mediator if you agree. With your permission, we'll share your hand history publicly.

SBR is not going to talk about data that only the book has or mystery experts. This will be transparent and information will be public as all disputes are. 5Dimes has consistently paid at the conclusion of complicated disputes leaning toward the player. 5Dimes already said they will pay if there is doubt on whether the player used a bot.

This is a pending case anyone will be able to review. Long time readers of the board know that 5D has paid big figures after a player took advantage of obvious loopholes or misconfigurations.

**BigFish** · 05-11-11, 02:52 PM

Originally posted by KEdge2k

It's ignorant because your original comment was this:

"Stop with that crap. If you're stupid enough to bet on a rigged sport, expect to get screwed. The lines should never have been posted and you shouldn't have ever bet on them."

No one should expect to get screwed when a book throws a line out there. The problem is the book putting up a line with nebulous interpretation of their rules that (what a shock) favors the book with their ruling. In retrospect, maybe the book shouldn't have put the line out, but once it does, then no bettor should "expect to get screwed" when they bet into said line.

It was only a bad idea to the extent that Tony interpreted the rules in a way that allowed him to avoid paying out a multitude of bets from +1000 all the way through +140 or so.

Good post, Kedge. I'm curious, did SBR side with Tony in this WWE incident? Or with the players who allegedly got screwed? Or was SBR even the mediator?

**mighty maron** · 05-11-11, 02:55 PM

Originally posted by BigFish

Good post, Kedge. I'm curious, did SBR side with Tony in this WWE incident? Or with the players who allegedly got screwed? Or was SBR even the mediator?

I thought one player got his bet resolved at the cost of his account.

**beyondthebets** · 05-11-11, 02:57 PM

Not to change the subject, but I'd love to see these SBR investigations turn into a really crappy Cable TV show. It'd be interesting to go behind the scenes and to see both sides presented, with interviews done on camera with sportsbook managers and the SBR team. In this case, a camera crew would go to OP's home and have him show us how quickly he can play this particular casino game. Then they'd present the evidence as we have it.

The show would get at least one viewer.

I nominate Chris Hansen as host.

**fixxer** · 05-11-11, 03:24 PM

Will be interesting to see what will the history show...

Did he take any break during play? Did he wait a little more after the royal? Etc...

**jairocon** · 05-11-11, 03:45 PM

How long will the review process take? days? when is the expected resolution?

**sharlataans** · 05-11-11, 04:17 PM

5dimes also stole my money just after they upgraded their software to send 'no cache' to all pages. I am not their customer anymore and will never advise anyone else to be.