Pinnacle v Betfair

[Hareeba!]

That's all very well before the market has tightened up near to the start eg 2.12 back 2.13 lay but
the only way to get better odds in this situation is to "gamble" on a line moverment. It could easily go the other way.
Fair enough before this situation ie early on, you can queue for better odds but are not guaranteed to get them.

Agree with that for sure. But when the Betfair market is that mature it would surprise me that you would frequently find better odds elsewhere.

It's when the market is immature that you can generally extract much better odds than are currently on offer.

[loyd]

I can't agree with that. The odds for soccer bets are mostly worse than at the asian bookies. For example:

Velez Sarsfield - Estudiantes ------------ Game starts in 2 hours.
Betfair 2.06 (without fee) volume 50 EUR
Pinnacle 2.04
12BET 2.04
188BET 2.041
SBOBET 2.07

The odds of every asian bookie are better than the odds at Betfair.

thats because you are looking at south american matches in european trading hours, look at these matches at 20h GMT+1 and you will see the odds got better.

[radishman]

I have a Pinnacle and Betfair account but I place 4 of 5 bets at Pinnacle because of better odds

[Stefan]

thats because you are looking at south american matches in european trading hours, look at these matches at 20h GMT+1 and you will see the odds got better.

The volume would be higher but not the odds, because the lay offer was 2.08.

95% of my bets are soccer bets and I place less than 2% of my bets at Betfair.

[Hareeba!]

I have a Pinnacle and Betfair account but I place 4 of 5 bets at Pinnacle because of better odds

which sports?

do you ever put up your own bids at Betfair?

[Hareeba!]

The volume would be higher but not the odds, because the lay offer was 2.08.

95% of my bets are soccer bets and I place less than 2% of my bets at Betfair.

Yesterday I couldn't obtain the odds I was seeking on two European soccer matches so I posted bids on Betfair before going to bed. Neither was a longshot ... they were both AH bets.

On waking this morning I found both had been matched. And that happens more often than not.

and the same thing with two tennis bets, one of which was at longish odds

[loyd]

the lay offer was 2.08.

at which moment of the day did you get that odds? the closer you are to the match the better the odds will be as more people are making back/lay offers and it drive the juice down.

[magnavox]

Agree with that for sure. But when the Betfair market is that mature it would surprise me that you would frequently find better odds elsewhere.

You sound like a broken record. Go back to post #62

Yesterday I couldn't obtain the odds I was seeking on two European soccer matches so I posted bids on Betfair before going to bed. Neither was a longshot ... they were both AH bets.

On waking this morning I found both had been matched. And that happens more often than not.

Again, this time post #43

[thespeculator]

i am in canada , my betfair limit on single games is 15k (not that i need that much), but why would an exchange have a limit, is this only for canadians, or do all players have limits

[nli07]

Is the 5% commission for offers you accept? Do you get charged commissions for putting offers?

I really like the Matchbook platform and wanna compare Betfair with it.

[Hareeba!]

i am in canada , my betfair limit on single games is 15k (not that i need that much), but why would an exchange have a limit, is this only for canadians, or do all players have limits

Pretty sure there is no such thing as a limit at Betfair

You may be referring to self imposed limits on your account?
Check what's there under My Profile and you should be able to edit them if that's the issue.

[Hareeba!]

Is the 5% commission for offers you accept? Do you get charged commissions for putting offers?

I really like the Matchbook platform and wanna compare Betfair with it.

No. Betfair charges commission only on any winnings. Unlike at Matchbook you don't pay any commission on losing bets.

The basic commission rate is 5% but you can earn reductions in the rate for regular playing. Effectively the more your turnover, the lower your commission rate. Minimum is 2%.

[magnavox]

No. Betfair charges commission only on any winnings. Unlike at Matchbook you don't pay any commission on losing bets.

That still does compromise value big time.

If you want to 'compare' then Matchbook charges the Betfair's equivalent of 2% and on baseball even less. And that's only for offers you accept. Putting them up yourself gets you paid extra instead of being charged. Betfair always takes something away from you.

[Hareeba!]

That still does compromise value big time.

If you want to 'compare' then Matchbook charges the Betfair's equivalent of 2% and on baseball even less. And that's only for offers you accept. Putting them up yourself gets you paid extra instead of being charged. Betfair always takes something away from you.

No argument on that point at all
But this thread really was to get to the bottom of why people are nominating Betfair ahead of Pinnacle, not Matchbook
I concede that almost always for US sports Matchbook is the better option but that's about all they can compete with Betfair on 99% of the time.
And despite the commission value, the comparison should always be done on net odds obtainable.

[Arilou]

Paying 5% plus potentially the winners' tax makes Betfair on average worse than a -105 out even if every market was available zero cents wide. If you can get it down to 2% and dodge the tax then Betfair looks a lot better, but their activity thresholds are high. The key is that the prices at Pinnacle and Betfair (and a place like SBO) often vary quite a bit from each other, so if you're being serious you need multiple outs for that reason alone. They also serve different purposes. Betfair offers funky stuff Pinnacle doesn't (yet) offer, and with commission discounts can be better for high liquidity events while Pinnacle is easier and faster, doesn't have an effective minimum activity requirement and offers reliable liquidity.

[imack]

Can someone please explain the 5% commission at Betfair and 'premium charges' and winning taxes to a noob. Also, what is AH?

Interesting thread guys. Thanks.

[loyd]

i am in canada , my betfair limit on single games is 15k (not that i need that much), but why would an exchange have a limit, is this only for canadians, or do all players have limits

i have an exposure limit of 10k, its not like bookies limit where its the max you can win, the max you can win is unlimited, if you make a +200 bet of risking 10k to win 30k its possible.

[Konkss]

pinnacle is the best without any doubt, much more liquidity

[Monte]

I hate Betfair, there is no competition for them and that is the only reason why this shithouse is nr.1

[Stefan]

Can someone please explain the 5% commission at Betfair and 'premium charges' and winning taxes to a noob. Also, what is AH?

Interesting thread guys. Thanks.

5% commission means that you have to pay 5% of your net winnings in a market (different markets of the same match can't be added up). That's the winning tax.

Premium charge is an additional fee you have to pay when your payed commission is less than a certain limit compared with your whole net winnings over a longtime period. It's a bit more complicated, but only a few sports better have to pay this. I think most of them are traders, so don't worry about this.

AH means Asian Handicap.

[Stefan]

Now Pinnacle announced a maintenance. I hope they will fix their accessibility problems.

[Hareeba!]

I hate Betfair, there is no competition for them and that is the only reason why this shithouse is nr.1

that's the way it really has to be for an exchange to work best

A punter has to put aside prejudices and bet where he can get the best odds and liquidity

[Hareeba!]

pinnacle is the best without any doubt, much more liquidity

well that is dependent upon what you are betting on so not always true

I can ask for over the market odds at Betfair and go to bed, often waking in the morning to find I've been matched. Can't do that at Pinnacle.

[Jontheman]

i am in canada , my betfair limit on single games is 15k (not that i need that much), but why would an exchange have a limit, is this only for canadians, or do all players have limits

As others have said all Betfair accounts have an exposure limit - the total amount of risk you can take on, basically. If you wanted it increased to (say) 50k then all you need to do is deposit 50k and Email Betfair - they'll increase your limit to reflect your balance inside an hour. I know this as I had to increase mine during the World Cup when I had a lot of pending bets and hit my exposure limit.

Not sure why it exists. Fraud prevention or regulatory requirements?

[acw]

I can ask for over the market odds at Betfair and go to bed, often waking in the morning to find I've been matched.

If you bet this way, then you are truly the man!
In my experience only those bets will get matched that later turn out to be at bad prices.

[viperxxl]

betfair is better in livebets, pinnacle is very poor in livebets

[Santo]

A few years ago Pinnacle trialled a 'place order' function on MLB markets I think; I can only assume it wasn't used enough and got killed, but did replicate part of the exchange functionality often cited.

[Sawyer]

Betfair's Premium Charge sucks. If you don't make trading, use Pinnacle.

[davidchong]

what is

[Hareeba!]

If you bet this way, then you are truly the man!
In my experience only those bets will get matched that later turn out to be at bad prices.

yeah, I understand what you are saying but the way I like to bet is set a price and don't take unders for it .. If I can get it I'll take it .. if it later drifts then that's too bad .. but that's my required price so I'm happy to get it at the time .. if it were available before I go to bed I'd happily take it so why not put in a bid and sleep on it?

to be honest, I've never kept a record of how those particular bets have gone but I've been making a living for years doing what I do and I think I'd have noticed if there were truly a negative in that policy

[loyd]

5% commission means that you have to pay 5% of your net winnings in a market (different markets of the same match can't be added up). That's the winning tax.

the premium charge is not a problem for most people, infact, its 10% in horse racing and it doesn't seem to bother anyone.

[odysseus]

Agree with that for sure. But when the Betfair market is that mature it would surprise me that you would frequently find better odds elsewhere.

It's when the market is immature that you can generally extract much better odds than are currently on offer.

yeah true, it depends on whether you're wagering of trading/arbing etc. if you're wagering, you can affor to risk queuing for better odds. if you're arbing, you risk too much doing this.

[Hareeba!]

yeah true, it depends on whether you're wagering of trading/arbing etc. if you're wagering, you can affor to risk queuing for better odds. if you're arbing, you risk too much doing this.

of course
I'm not an arber or trader even
if arbing you have to bet both sides at once, otherwise you are trading and gambling on a favourable move in the odds

[Stefan]

Pinnacle's maintenance didn't fix the accessibility problems of their website. It seems to be a bit better than the last days, but this may be a random.

[imack]

5% commission means that you have to pay 5% of your net winnings in a market (different markets of the same match can't be added up). That's the winning tax.

Premium charge is an additional fee you have to pay when your payed commission is less than a certain limit compared with your whole net winnings over a longtime period. It's a bit more complicated, but only a few sports better have to pay this. I think most of them are traders, so don't worry about this.

AH means Asian Handicap.

Thanks stefan.