Betonline-"Wiseguy Action"?

**bigboydan** · 01-30-08, 07:01 PM

All it means basically is that they don't welcome professional action.

**Ortho** · 01-30-08, 07:33 PM

Has SBR fielded any complaints from people who have had their bets cancelled?

**bigboydan** · 01-30-08, 07:40 PM

Not that I'm aware of sir.

**Wild Reet** · 01-30-08, 09:46 PM

A friend of mine was kicked out for winning 20k in the racebook. I don't think they would cancel wagers after the event started. What I think it means is if they decide to kick you out any pending wagers would be canceled.

**Little Big Fat** · 01-30-08, 10:35 PM

Would someone define "professional action" and what is a professional player. Wouldn't someone who bet real money be considered a professional. And what is steam?
If I bet on a game 10 minutes before heavy action is wagered on a game, just by coincidence, would I be considered someone who is betting on steam. Or how about if I was wagering on that game at the same time or if I liked that game and I start to see the line change at other books,and I like the game, and quick place my wager at said book before the line changes would I be considered playing steam even though I planned on wagering on it. What if I wager on a steam play after the line moves would that be considered playing steam.
What is the definition of a "recreational player"?
Is it determined by how much you wager?
I know that betonline considers themselves to be a "recreational book", their wagering limits are pretty high, 2-5 thousand dollar limits on all major sports (sides and totals) including college hoops and football. So if I bet 5,000 per game am I a professional, if I bet 200 am I a professional. I think I know the definition, If you beat us you are a professional no matter how much you wager and if you lose 5000.00 per game you are a recreational player and can play as much as you want.
One last thing, if someone bets 30 games per week and has one game that is considered a steam bet just by coincidence will they use that as the reason to boot you if you are beating them?
I'll bet the answer is yes.

**Doug** · 01-30-08, 10:49 PM

CYA rule

**Thremp** · 01-31-08, 02:29 AM

Professionals are winners. Losers are recreational. Definitions like this are very simple.

**katstale** · 01-31-08, 11:23 AM

Originally posted by Thremp

Professionals are winners. Losers are recreational. Definitions like this are very simple.

Correct. Play there long enough and they will give you your proper definition. I can say this, they drop the pro down to $500 max bet--which is way better than Tony at Dimes and his $50 max bet.

**Justin7** · 01-31-08, 07:56 PM

This book does not want professional players... Even if you decline the bonus, they will not want you. And why would they? You'll beat them.

This is an emerging issue I see - what can a book fairly do against someone, whose only crime is using his brain? It's fine to limit or close an account, but the bonus handling is problematic. I think the fairest way to handle a "professional" player is to waive the bonus requirement, and allow the pro to keep it.

**Bill Dozer** · 02-02-08, 10:45 AM

Originally posted by Little Big Fat

Would someone define "professional action" and what is a professional player. Wouldn't someone who bet real money be considered a professional. And what is steam?
If I bet on a game 10 minutes before heavy action is wagered on a game, just by coincidence, would I be considered someone who is betting on steam. Or how about if I was wagering on that game at the same time or if I liked that game and I start to see the line change at other books,and I like the game, and quick place my wager at said book before the line changes would I be considered playing steam even though I planned on wagering on it. What if I wager on a steam play after the line moves would that be considered playing steam.
What is the definition of a "recreational player"?
Is it determined by how much you wager?
I know that betonline considers themselves to be a "recreational book", their wagering limits are pretty high, 2-5 thousand dollar limits on all major sports (sides and totals) including college hoops and football. So if I bet 5,000 per game am I a professional, if I bet 200 am I a professional. I think I know the definition, If you beat us you are a professional no matter how much you wager and if you lose 5000.00 per game you are a recreational player and can play as much as you want.
One last thing, if someone bets 30 games per week and has one game that is considered a steam bet just by coincidence will they use that as the reason to boot you if you are beating them?
I'll bet the answer is yes.

It's mostly about the line move. If you bet the play after the line chnages the book will be happy. The play is only sharp up to a set price or odds.

If you bet the line when seeing it change elsewhere, depending on the book, they may claim it is steam. The slower the book is to move, the more steamy it gets for them.

If you make the sharp bet 10 minutes before and do it regularly, you would look become the originator of the move and the books would use your play or kick you out if they were smart enough to notice. The book's that use your plays would make it so there was no longer a 10 minute gap, making it a steam bet.

**TLD** · 02-02-08, 08:41 PM

Wouldn't someone who bet real money be considered a professional.

No. That’s one small factor at most.

If I bet on a game 10 minutes before heavy action is wagered on a game, just by coincidence, would I be considered someone who is betting on steam.

No. It would have to be a consistent pattern.

Or how about if I was wagering on that game at the same time or if I liked that game and I start to see the line change at other books,and I like the game, and quick place my wager at said book before the line changes would I be considered playing steam even though I planned on wagering on it.

If it happened once, no. If it happened as a consistent pattern, potentially yes. They don’t know or care that you “planned” to bet it anyway for independent reasons; they care if you’re betting in such a way as to predictably and consistently put them at a disadvantage.

What if I wager on a steam play after the line moves would that be considered playing steam.

No, especially if the line’s moved substantially against you already.

What is the definition of a "recreational player"?

Someone who does not wager in such a way that the book deems itself to be in a long term position of disadvantage against him.

Is it determined by how much you wager?

No. (Though if you’re playing for super-small amounts they likely don’t care if you’re professional or recreational, so they won’t bother to take the countermeasures against you they would against most professionals.)

I know that betonline considers themselves to be a "recreational book", their wagering limits are pretty high, 2-5 thousand dollar limits on all major sports (sides and totals) including college hoops and football. So if I bet 5,000 per game am I a professional, if I bet 200 am I a professional.

No. Bet size is a minimal factor at best in the professional/recreational distinction.

I think I know the definition, If you beat us you are a professional no matter how much you wager and if you lose 5000.00 per game you are a recreational player and can play as much as you want.

False. Only the most unsophisticated of books would base its decision of whose action to welcome and whose action to reject solely on how much you’re up or down against them. What matters is if you are or are not betting in such a way as to predictably and consistently put them in a position of disadvantage. You can bet coin flips at –110 against them forever, regardless of if you happen to have gotten lucky and won doing so so far. You cannot bet coin flips at +110 against them forever.

It is possible, however, that accounts will not be closely scrutinized unless and until they are substantially ahead. Thus if you bet in a “professional” manner and happen to lose in the short term, they may never know you’re doing so and so never take countermeasures. But if you win enough for them to look more closely at how you did so, and it turns out you’ve been betting with a consistent edge over them, they’ll let you know one way or another your action is not welcome. Whereas if you won because you’re just some whale who had some short term good luck, they’d be insane to label you “professional” and try to get rid of you.

One last thing, if someone bets 30 games per week and has one game that is considered a steam bet just by coincidence will they use that as the reason to boot you if you are beating them? I'll bet the answer is yes.

The answer is no. If you make 29 non-steam bets a week that they want, and 1 steam bet a week that they’d just as soon do without, you are not a professional and thus not a player they want gone (assuming we’re not talking about something ridiculous like $5 each on the 29 bets and $5,000 on the other). That you’re “beating” them is irrelevant to them, because your betting pattern is not one that puts them at a long term disadvantage against you.

**teazeman** · 02-02-08, 09:27 PM

keep your wagers under a nickel at this book and you'll never make the screen, i have beaten them on several occasions and never had a problem getting payed. i know of 5 figure payouts without a hitch. solid shop imo.

**Thremp** · 02-02-08, 11:45 PM

I'd love to see anyone post a record where they've taken over 20k off betonline and not been shown the door. I was shown my way out for a far more insignificant amount (and accused of insider knowledge, pretty obvious they have no clue what they're doing).

**katstale** · 02-03-08, 12:11 PM

No question they are a little skittish abt their stale/slow to move lines. As I indicated, BOL has been ok abt everything else except the $500 collar. If they had Moneybookers as an ewallet option I would still rate them a B+ book.

Nothing can come close to 5Dimes paranoia. I know of a case where a guy made 10 $500 wagers. He was collared to $50 AND put on a 25 second delay. I guess that is the same as being shown the door.

**20Four7** · 02-03-08, 12:29 PM

I wonder when Tony will show me the door. I put in $400 and got a $200 free play after rolling over 2K. I'm at about 4.5K in my dimes account now. Because I took the bonus the reduced juice games are only $50 but 5dimes allowed me a $500 boxing play that pinny had a max of $250. So it was better to hit up 5dimes than to play at pinny and have them move the line on me.