Be careful playing with 5Dimes

[nobs]

5 dimes is and always has been a joke.

I once deposit $300 and foolishly went to their casino and starting betting $5.

I lost the whole account winning 0 or maybe 1 hand. I lost like 24 out of 25 hands.

Then I went to talk to Live help and all she told me is it happens, and too bad. I told her come on, I understand the house has to have the edge, but thats just flat out criminal.

she told me no no our casino is 100% honest, sometimes you go on a bad run.

I have played in real casinos way more than I care to remember and never in my life have I lost 24 out of 25

[Pauulzcappin]

Is Pinnacle the only good book still around?

[nobs]

and I love how books always try to use that " bad line " BS.

How about learning to be professional ? How about running your business right ? How about posting the CORRECT odds , then you dont have to worry about somone betting into a bad line.

Bottom line is 5 dimes put up great odds on Watney so people would be tempted to bet it big, 5 dimes figured he wouldnt finish top 20 anyway and they knew if he did they could just scream bad line.

Thats what happened here.

[skrtelfan]

There are a few major problems here. One, there needs to be a reasonable amount of time that can elapse before a book adjusts something as a "bad line." With a minor market like "top 20 finish" where 5Dimes may well be the only larger American book offering that market, it's very difficult to say what is or is not a "bad line." Quoting the top 5 and top 10 finish prices is a red herring because how's he supposed to know those weren't the bad prices?

More importantly, 5Dimes is notorious for putting up really crappy prices themselves. During the World Cup, a few people asked me to look at 5D's props for them to see if I saw anything of value. For various goal scorer markets, Pinnacle might have lines like "player A to score a goal, yes +360 no -450." 5D had different rules regarding what bets were action (I think Pinnacle's rule was the player must start whereas 5D's rule was that the player just had to appear in the game, so not exactly the same thing), but for the majority of the players, 5D's odds might be "yes +380, no -99999." They had that "no -99999" for tons and tons of markets during that WC. If you're going to try to sucker someone into betting the no at a ridiculous price like that, you can't cry that someone "took advantage of you" by taking 20/1 when you really wanted to offer 2/1. Some books are notorious for having a ridiculously high hold on certain markets, and I've seen books offer 6/1 on stuff that Pinnacle had at 40/1. If such a book puts up 60/1 when Pinnacle has 40/1, that really isn't far off enough to claim "bad line" but anyone that knows that book well knows it's a "bad line" because they probably meant to offer 6/1.

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, on what planet does a bookmaker expect his customers to know what a fair line should be on such a minor market? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of, er, his linesman???

[5Dimes]

5Dimes Sportsbook General Rules:

"Immediately upon discovery, wagers placed on an event with an obvious erroneous line resulting from human error will be graded no action. If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before play begins, 5Dimes reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

Below is a screenshot of betfair's matched pricing history for this selection. You can see the highest matched price on this wagering option was 3.30
3.30 = +230
The wagers on this option were re-entered in the account at a price of +300.

While the wagers at the obvious erroneous lines should have been voided immediately, unfortunately this was not the case in this instance. The wagers were honored and paid correctly at the adjusted price.

[michael777]

god has spoken

[shari91]

5Dimes Sportsbook General Rules:

"Immediately upon discovery, wagers placed on an event with an obvious erroneous line resulting from human error will be graded no action. If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before play begins, 5Dimes reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

Below is a screenshot of betfair's matched pricing history for this selection. You can see the highest matched price on this wagering option was 3.30
3.30 = +230
The wagers on this option were re-entered in the account at a price of +300.

While the wagers at the obvious erroneous lines should have been voided immediately, unfortunately this was not the case in this instance. The wagers were honored and paid correctly at the adjusted price.

So Dark Horse, according to 5Dimes there goes your assertion that the line adjustments were automated. And therefore if we are to go along with 5Dimes reasoning: TWO LINE ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED EQUATES TO TWO MORE EMPLOYEE MISTAKES ON THEIR BEHALF.

Absolutely unreal.

[relaaxx]

And finally, and perhaps most importantly, on what planet does a bookmaker expect his customers to know what a fair line should be on such a minor market? Shouldn't that be the responsibility of, er, his linesman???

best point made here

[polskboy]

So Dark Horse, according to 5Dimes there goes your assertion that the line adjustments were automated. And therefore if we are to go along with 5Dimes reasoning: TWO LINE ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED EQUATES TO TWO MORE EMPLOYEE MISTAKES ON THEIR BEHALF. Absolutely unreal.

good thing im not playing with them.

[Dark Horse]

So Dark Horse, according to 5Dimes there goes your assertion that the line adjustments were automated. And therefore if we are to go along with 5Dimes reasoning: TWO LINE ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED EQUATES TO TWO MORE EMPLOYEE MISTAKES ON THEIR BEHALF.

Absolutely unreal.

Have you ever bet the max on a 5D prop?

If so, you know that the odds are readjusted quickly. You can then bet it again. So it's very quick and easy to get in a few adjusted odds. Clearly, this is based on math, and not on the accuracy of the original line. Unless you expect every employee, 24/7, to be a linesmaker...

The issue is nothing new. The question as to what exactly is a bad line is valid, and it would be helpful if all books were on the same wavelength. They're not. So the next best thing is to inquire with the book about a line that looks too good to be true. If you don't take that precaution, you open yourself up to the book taking a shot (which didn't happen here). Players should know this, to protect themselves. The OP was actually lucky to get his bet in with 5D, and have his odds adjusted. Lowly rated books would have canceled the bet.

What is funny to me is that the winds have changed on this forum. A few years ago this complaint would have been shrugged off by most, because the rules were widely known. Obviously this development works against the book in this case, in the court of public opinion, but in the long run no book would complaint.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

How do you know that the book didn't take a shot? I couldn't log into my account when Watney was up 3 heading into the final round. There isn't that much coincidence in the world. On the small chance that it was coincidence, MORON THUG TONY showed no class and totally disrgarded my situation. In the process he ruined my Sunday after I had watched golf for four days.

Now I get to ruin his day by driving business away from his greasy, piggy, dishonorable, pathetic, greedy, banned from the USA fingers. No big deal. I feel great about it. Save a few fellow human beings the misery that I encountered. If this thread ever gets messed with I will go on a mission on every forum known to man, and I will hire posters to post this exact article and thread.

Do NOT mess with me and my money. People always end up begging me to stop once I get rolling. Stupid asses. I attack bullies right between the eyes. If nobody fights back the bully keeps on cheating, scamming, and angle-shooting.

[shari91]

Have you ever bet the max on a 5D prop?

If so, you know that the odds are readjusted quickly. You can then bet it again. So it's very quick and easy to get in a few adjusted odds.

The issue is nothing new. The question as to what exactly is a bad line is valid, and it would be helpful if all books were on the same wavelength. They're not. So the next best thing is to inquire with the book about a line that looks too good to be true. If you don't take that precaution, you open yourself up to the book taking a shot (which didn't happen here). Players should know this, to protect themselves. The OP was actually lucky to get his bet in with 5D, and have his odds adjusted. Lowly rated books would have canceled the bet.

What is funny to me is that the winds have changed on this forum. A few years ago this complaint would have been shrugged off by most, because the rules were widely known. Obviously this development works against the book in this case, in the court of public opinion, but in the long run no book would complaint.

My account is sitting unused and it always will be after this thread despite how much I was looking forward to playing their tennis props once I move from Australia and don't have as clear access to the books here anymore. I agree that the best thing to do is contact the book when you see an obviously bad line and want to bet it because chances are your bet will be cancelled anyway and what's the point in tying your money up unnecessarily. But at the end of the day, I am not a linesmaker. Not even close. If I'm expected to know what the appropriate odds are for a prop when it has 50+ other players listed, especially since from my interpretation of info in the Think Tank a lot of the value of betting props is due to soft - not BAD- lines, then I'm better off just not playing with them at all because I could easily see myself in this exact situation.

[trumpdown]

5Dimes Sportsbook General Rules:

"Immediately upon discovery, wagers placed on an event with an obvious erroneous line resulting from human error will be graded no action. If a wager with an erroneous line is not voided before play begins, 5Dimes reserves the right to remedy the odds to a fair market price which would have been available at the time the wager was placed. This price remedy may be applied during or after an event. Only the odds will be corrected on an erroneous line. The risk amount, applicable spread and total will always remain unchanged. A player will never benefit from betting on a clear erroneous line. Repeat offenders will not be tolerated."

Below is a screenshot of betfair's matched pricing history for this selection. You can see the highest matched price on this wagering option was 3.30
3.30 = +230
The wagers on this option were re-entered in the account at a price of +300.

While the wagers at the obvious erroneous lines should have been voided immediately, unfortunately this was not the case in this instance. The wagers were honored and paid correctly at the adjusted price.

Finally we find the fair odds of what was asked from the OP all along.

The line was bad. I don't see an issue here other than how you were perceived, but in his eyes you were taking a shot.

Show the history of a book with comparable odds and this is a different story. Do any exist?

[Boner_18]

Fvck this place. I will not play there again.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Yeah, on planet earth there was 4.5K bet on Watney for top 20. He had to search for two days to dig that up. No big deal. You could ask 10 bookmakers right now what odds Watney should be to finish in the top 20 and maybe one or two would have a clue. It was the first top 20 I ever bet.

He got my money...that is what he wanted, and now Tony will have to pay the price as I tell this story. The more idiotic comments I see the more likely I am to start this thread in multiple places, so keep the stupid ass comments coming and we'll see how much business this clown will lose because of this IGNORANT MOVE.

Notice, there has been no dispute as to how it all played out. No apology at all in chat for making the alleged mistake. NO class. No more business from me. PIGGY PIGGY MOVE.....

[durito]

So Dark Horse, according to 5Dimes there goes your assertion that the line adjustments were automated. And therefore if we are to go along with 5Dimes reasoning: TWO LINE ADJUSTMENTS BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED EQUATES TO TWO MORE EMPLOYEE MISTAKES ON THEIR BEHALF.

Absolutely unreal.

What part of the computer moving the line automatically without human input do you not understand?

Do you realize how many bets 5dimes offers? You think they have someone watching every single bet come in on every single obscure market or prop?

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Beware of 5 Dimes. My story is true and no matter what side you are on you can see that you will not get treated with respect if anything ambiguous ever happens. He will hold your money hostage and tell you TOUGH LUCK.

If he is right it will cost him business. Fair is fair if you look at it like that. I should have quit playing after they ran me around like a monkey faxing CC info at Kinkos for hours and hours the Sunday of the British Open. Even though the deposit was made from **....lol. The CC deposit was made for 250 months earlier, but they ran me around like a clown.

Now who's the clown? Can you see the info clearly now? How about now? Ok....I will go back to Kinkos....ok....I faxed it again for the 6th time....Can you see it now? Even though the plays were made on a ** deposit, I will fax you the info again for my CC deposit from months ago. Can you see it now? Jackasses.

Haha........you guys have no idea. If you are on Tony's side you are on the wrong side of human affairs...PERIOD.

[durito]

Yeah, on planet earth there was 4.5K bet on Watney for top 20. He had to search for two days to dig that up. No big deal. You could ask 10 bookmakers right now what odds Watney should be to finish in the top 20 and maybe one or two would have a clue. It was the first top 20 I ever bet.

He got my money...that is what he wanted, and now Tony will have to pay the price as I tell this story. The more idiotic comments I see the more likely I am to start this thread in multiple places, so keep the stupid ass comments coming and we'll see how much business this clown will lose because of this IGNORANT MOVE.

Notice, there has been no dispute as to how it all played out. No apology at all in chat for making the alleged mistake. NO class. No more business from me. PIGGY PIGGY MOVE.....

Are you retarded? Betfair is a very acceptable source for the fair market odds. It was a bad line, they paid you out better than the market price. Tony was a dick as usual, at least he didn't threaten to cut your hands off.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

All I know is that sports books make money from people who bet, and people who bet are looking at this thread, and the vast majority will vote with their feet and not play at a place that handled this situation like Tony did.

You are the retard. It is easy to see that I never had a shot to win, while it is highly likely that they knew about the play well before Sunday. It is 100 percent certain that had Watney missed the cut I never would have heard about it. That is 100 percent!

So, I had no shot, and they took a free shot. I rooted for a play for three days and miraculously, the guy I had just recently heard of, and hardly anybody else had ever heard of, somehow is up 3 heading to the final round. Then my account gets frozen.

Of course, Louis Oosthazen was 450-1 at 5Dimes in the British and I bet $10 on him and won. I am sure he was a far less price at other places in the world. He was ranked about 50th in the world but was still 450-1. Was that a bad line, or was it good? If someone else had him at 80-1 is my bet still good? They paid that bet because that was the line they needed to put up to attract action on the guy. How can the 50th ranked player in the world be 450-1? That is what they wanted, and that is what they got.

Get lost, retard.

[shari91]

What part of the computer moving the line automatically without human input do you not understand?

Do you realize how many bets 5dimes offers? You think they have someone watching every single bet come in on every single obscure market or prop?

And what part of "how long can a bad line be hung for before a book should take some responsibility for their failure to pick it up?" do you not understand? I don't care if the adjustments are automated. The main book I use here is a hell of a lot bigger than 5dimes will ever hope to be as far as bets offered and total turnover and twice a day they have employees go through and check all wagers made that day that are still pending. This is on top of the constant audit of all closed wagers. I know this for a fact because an acquaintance works for them and when I queried him about one of my own bets he explained the process to me. At what point does 5Dimes check their lines? On the final day of a tournament when the long-shot is leading the whole thing? Give me a break.

[RudyRuetigger]

too late she already did

[Dark Horse]

Let the classiness of the OP speak for itself.

On one side I hope that this forum regains some of its original quality. On the other side, who am I kidding?
Tony went totally by the rules, but the public doesn't understand bookmaking. The only thing that matters, in the bigger picture, is the last part of that sentence.

[durito]

And what part of "how long can a bad line be hung for before a book should take some responsibility for their failure to pick it up?" do you not understand? I don't care if the adjustments are automated. The main book I use here is a hell of a lot bigger than 5dimes will ever hope to be as far as bets offered and total turnover and twice a day they have employees go through and check all wagers made that day that are still pending. This is on top of the constant audit of all closed wagers. I know this for a fact because an acquaintance works for them and when I queried him about one of my own bets he explained the process to me. At what point does 5Dimes check their lines? On the final day of a tournament when the long-shot is leading the whole thing? Give me a break.

Bookmaking in Australia is quite the different process than at unregulated offshore shops that can do whatever they want.

PInnacle would have let the player keep the bet, but closed the account afterwords.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Dumb Horse,

If the rules are allegedly putting up a bad line two days before the event and then freezing the players account 5 days later and blaming the player and being ignorant, then his rules will be his downfall.

Even if everything he says is true, he still will lose tons of business. Anybody who can read can see how it played out. And not one word of dispute on their side as to how it happened.

If rules are rules, then feet are feet, and people will be walking away from this GOON SHOP if they know what's best for them.

[BChrisB]

Do you realize how many bets 5dimes offers? You think they have someone watching every single bet come in on every single obscure market or prop?

No, they don't watch every single bet that comes through. They watch the money and the lines and move them accordingly. They run reports and have a system of checks and balances. This is how it's done.

[Dark Horse]

PInnacle would have let the player keep the bet, but closed the account afterwords.

Exactly.

I would like the people in this thread to see the line histories, so they can see who was taking the shot. Is that possible, 5D or SBR?

Show odds to win, odds to place in top 5, in top 10, and in top 20, all in the same timeline. A picture is worth a thousand words. It will show the problem in 'real time', and show us exactly what the OP was looking at.

[shari91]

Bookmaking in Australia is quite the different process than at unregulated offshore shops that can do whatever they want.

PInnacle would have let the player keep the bet, but closed the account afterwords.

Fair enough. And if I were the OP, I would have gladly accepted a decision like Pinny's even if I had innocently bet the line in the first place. Even if the book had come back to me and said "sorry, we hung a bad line but because we also accepted bets on the two adjustments, thus tying your cash up, and didn't realise until the final day of the tournament when the player was leading, we will honour your original wager, cancel the two adjusted bets and close your account because we feel you took a shot." That to me makes more sense. Unless I'm to accept that Tony is running a two-man operation there and they don't have any systems in place to check their lines and pending wagers over a 6 day period of time, I'm finding it hard to believe that they didn't have a means to catch this until it looked like Watney was going to win the whole tournament on the final day. It's not like it's a 2 hour game - it's a 4 day tournament.

Either way, I've learned a valuable lesson here about where not to put my money so this thread wasn't all in vain for me personally.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Show what the odds were when the event went off, for Watney top 20. When I bet it was 20-1, then they adjusted it to 15-1 and I bet again later. It was then 10-1 the last I checked....this was on Tuesday....they didn't start until Thursday.

If they are saying that the line was 2-1 when the even went off, then by definition they knew about my play, and that I would be under the impression that the odds were obviously good. So, they let me watch the event for 3 days and then when it looked like a LOCK, they decided it was no good.

But what if the line ended up at 10-1 when the event went off. Maybe I was the only one who bet. In that case they need to take the loss because they got a fair bet.....it wasn't so out of line that others bet it down, and they had a whole two days to bet it down, and that means it was NOT an obviously bad line. Even if their intention was to put up 2-1, it is not obviously bad at 20-1. Not many books put up top 20's for golf.

I saw some lines where you could bet one guy at 150-1 to win the tournament, but you could also bet him at 175-1 without Woods.....meaning if Tiger won and you finished second you would still win. So, it would be the right move to take the higher odds.....and you have one less player to beat. This happened with a few players because that is what the odds were on each play. They adjusted them according to the action.

They are wrong either way. It is dishonorable conduct on their part.

[polskboy]

obviously book was taking a shot at a player by waiting for the last minute and hoping that player will lose that bet.

[tatommack]

thats bull shit tony is a crook

[BChrisB]

PInnacle would have let the player keep the bet, but closed the account afterwords.

Not true, one of the two times this happened to me was with Pinnacle. They caught the line in an hour, refunded my money, were extremely polite, welcomed me to bet the corrected line, and were completely professional the entire time.

Pinnacle never would have let a bad line get posted then go though two adjustments, let the tourney tee-off, then only catch the bad line when the player was in the money.

Pinnacle is a top-notch operation who takes care of its customers.

I miss them so much, of all the books that stopped taking US clients.. why them

[rki999]

5 dimes is a good company......a+ or is it?

[Balco10]

I chatted on 5 Dimes asking questions about their service and they were rude and said that I asked too many questions. WTF????
I beed with Caribsports for years and the only problems I had was that they made you use ewalletexpress, so I recently closed
and account and looking for a top company to use who has the best depositing methods for USA members. Screw 5 Dimes and what
a sad story "Beware of 5 Dimes" and hope you get your deposits back!

[LostBankroll]

I chatted on 5 Dimes asking questions about their service and they were rude and said that I asked too many questions. WTF????
I beed with Caribsports for years and the only problems I had was that they made you use ewalletexpress, so I recently closed
and account and looking for a top company to use who has the best depositing methods for USA members. Screw 5 Dimes and what
a sad story "Beware of 5 Dimes" and hope you get your deposits back!

Great first post

[BChrisB]

Opening post on this thread was: Sep 10th 08:58 PM
In a little over 24 hours: 208 post/replies

And nobody from SBR has yet to comment on this.