Be careful playing with 5Dimes

[shari91]

some of you guys...

Tony is 100% in the right here. There is no argument at all. The only surprising thing is that he spent so much time on the chat.

Are you joking?! They hung a line, adjusted it twice, accepted bets on those adjusted lines BEFORE the tournament even started and then on the final day of the tournament when this long-shot was leading, he turns around and says it was a mistake. Out of all the players listed in the tournament for which props were offered, you don't find it just a tad coincidental that this was the one with the bad line? Which was only revealed to the OP when the guy had a good shot of winning his bet on the Sunday?

Bloody hell. I try to stay out of these book complaint threads because a lot of the time I can see a case from both sides. This time considering there were 2 line adjustments involved, neither of which landed on the price Tony said it 'should have' been, even I can't give the book the benefit of the doubt at all.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Sorry Charlie (Dark Horse), if he is 100 percent in the right then I am not sitting here typing this. Whether it is a bad line or not on his end is not as relevant as the facts of the case. He says that I took a shot and I believe that he likely took a shot.

All of the facts go against his way of doing business, including his deleting the play while we were on chat so I wouldn't have a record of it. Only a loser who had something to hide would delete the play from the record. That alone....if he did nothing else, is enough to convict him of being a scumbag and having to pay IN FULL.

You can think all you want, but the bottom like is that the play was NOT an obviously bad line when I looked at it, and in my mind I did not KNOW it was a bad line. It looked like a good line to bet, so I bet it. Out of hundreds of props there are going to be some bets that mathematically favor the player and some that favor the book.

All of the facts have been laid out for everyone to see. He is in the wrong. Just like when some sports bettor is betting with a local and somehow the player can't reach the local....the player will always claim he would have had a winner. People stiff like that all the time. The player only mentions it if he would have had a winner. If he was saved from a loser he won't ever bring it up. I saw this back in college when I took some plays. A bunch of ignorant bullshit. Or, when someone would get buried they would want to double up if they didn't have the money. If you take the bet you can't win since he doesn't have the money. If you don't take the bet you can't win, either because if it hits you will get stiffed on the balance. You won't get paid in any scenario. In other words YOU CANNOT WIN. I know these tactics when I see them. I had no chance. If Watney misses the cut I lose the $500, and if Watney wins or is leading by 3 heading into the last round I won't be able to log into my account. That is Tony's way.

I am 100 percent certain that if Nick Watney misses the cut I never hear from Tony. Not in a million years. For that reason alone he is wrong. He is not honorable and since he controls the money once you deposit, you better hope like hell you don't get caught up in a situation like I did.

Since I know Tony is a dirtbag, why would I subject myself and my money potential risk with him. The line looked like a nice line, so I took it. Tony is scumbag. There is not gray area. The whole point of playing golf is to have fun and try to find some good lines occasionally. If you cannot bet a line where the odds favor you once in a while, then you can never bet.

[Dark Horse]

Are you joking?! They hung a line, adjusted it twice, accepted bets on those adjusted lines BEFORE the tournament even started and then on the final day of the tournament when this long-shot was leading, he turns around and says it was a mistake.

You're right. He probably spent so much time on the chat because he didn't catch the bad line earlier. Surely you understand that the question is if the line was bad or not. Not when it was caught.

Anyway, if in doubt, it should be fairly easy to check the line histories for 1st place, top 5, top 10, and top 20. That will show beyond any doubt if the line for top 20 finish was bad or not. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Then you can decide if you're supporting a shot taker here or not. Why do you think the innocent victim kept sidestepping the same question over and over?

[Poster X]

stop taking shots eric. tony shouldnt have been so nice.

[shari91]

You're right. He probably spent so much time on the chat because he didn't catch the bad line earlier. Surely you understand that the question is if the line was bad or not. Not when it was caught.

Anyway, if in doubt, it should be fairly easy to check the line histories for 1st place, top 5, top 10, and top 20. That will show beyond any doubt if the line for top 20 finish was bad or not. Let the numbers speak for themselves.

Then you can decide if you're supporting a shot taker here or not. Why do you think the innocent victim kept sidestepping the same question over and over?

I agree - the issue lies with the original number but the part that's leaving a bad taste in my mouth is that because that line was adjusted twice, to nowhere near what Tony said the line should've been, signals that this is an internal failure on their end. When that line was first adjusted, was the 5dimes employee just picking a number out of the air or would they have been required to perform their own checks and balances by comparing the line to those hung by Vegas on the same prop? Employees make mistakes so let's assume he/she missed it the first time and didn't bother researching what other places were offering the same prop for. What about the second time the line was adjusted? Again did the employee make a mistake? And if so, should those three mistakes - the initial line and the two adjustments - be absorbed by the customer or by the book itself?

Either it was a bad line all three times and Tony needs to get his company in order or it was never a bad line to begin with and he didn't want to pay out a decent amount on a long-shot bet when it looked like hitting on the final day. Neither of which scenario is a great confidence booster for those who are looking to place bets with them. And regardless of which it was, I don't quite see how the OP should've been penalised his winnings as a result.

[Dark Horse]

The line looked like a nice line, so I took it. Tony is scumbag. There is not gray area. The whole point of playing golf is to have fun and try to find some good lines occasionally. If you cannot bet a line where the odds favor you once in a while, then you can never bet.

Ask SBR to look into the line history for placing 1st, top 5, top 10, and top 20.

As far as I'm concerned, your arguments are soft and fuzzy. They even triggered Shari's motherly instinct. lol Let's have the simple numbers tell the story.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

It does not matter if the line was wrong or not. I had no clue. I am scrolling through lines and making plays. It is not an obviously bad line to me. In hindsight, if I do hours of research on lines and have a computer program that could tell me the odds everywhere in the world of what Watney was to finish in the top 20, then maybe I would have more knowledge.

There are British Books that offer way different odds than US Books on sports events, the Kentucky Derby, and everything else. There are sports books that have Nick Watney at 100 -1 to win and others that have him at 40-1 to win.

Finding a line that looks good and betting it is NOT taking a shot. It is making a smart play. Nobody has ever heard of Nick Watney. I don't care if Tony tells me that Watney was 50-1 to win and should have been only 2-1 to finish top 20. It does not look right to me at those odds and I would not bet it. Maybe that is the way it usually is. I do not care.

Even if it is a bad line, Tony's behavior is the lowest form of behavior imaginable. He will lose business because of this. Is Warren Buffett a shot taker? That is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. If I asked you what Nick Watney should be to finish in the top 20 you wouldn't have any clue if you had never bet top 20's before. They had lots of players listed at the odds of Nick Watney and I chose Watney. Many of those players I recognized. I only heard of Watney recently. The odds seemed good so I bet. The play should of stood. They listed Oosthazen at 450-1 to win the British so I bet $10. is that a bad line? He was ranked close to the top 50 in the world before the British, but he was overlooked. Just like Watney, so I bet.

Tony cheats. End of story. Accusing me of being a shot taker will get you nowhere. I posted the chat and all of the evidence. Tony took the shot. I tried to deposit $100 the night before the final round to make some more plays. If I was taking a shot that might be the dumbest thing to do in the world. I asked chat if I would be able to withdrawel my golf winnings if I made another deposit by CC and made some plays.

Only a fool would do that if he had knowingly bet a bad line and was trying to pull one over. Only a fool would risk having someone investigate the account.

But I contacted chat the night before when Watney was up 3 and he seemed like a cinch. I was making sure they wouldn't pull moves and try to hold up my Watney winnings if I deposited again.

[Masu485]

Not looking good here. 5Dimes is my only book ATM. Wish Pinny didn't ban me, loved it there, and in all my time on forums have only seen ONE OR TWO complaints

[BewareOf5Dimes]

stop taking shots eric. tony shouldnt have been so nice.

I bet Corey Pavin to win the PGA.....is that taking a shot? Did he have a chance to win or is Tony taking a shot. What were his true odds to win?

When Tiger is rolling like a machine and Books post short as hell odds are those odds good, or are they bad? If 5 Dimes lists 40 teams to win the BCS title game in the NCAA and then lists a field bet for teams not listed, do you think those odds are fair. They take those type of bets, and those odds are worse than the Watney line.

Those teams in the field cannot win the title game, though they will take a few bets on it. Bad line! Yeah right. That is the line.

The facts speak.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

Not looking good here. 5Dimes is my only book ATM. Wish Pinny didn't ban me, loved it there, and in all my time on forums have only seen ONE OR TWO complaints

They are tempting. I felt the same way, but they ruined it for me. I guess if you just bet straight bets for $100 or so then you might be ok, but they embarrased me when I made a withdrawel this summer.....making me run to Kinkos 5-6 times to fax my CC front and back even though I had used ** to deposit. The CC was from months earlier when I made a few plays.

So, the only two times something went right they made it as miserable as possible. Other than that they are great. I imagine if someone played there and never had a win then it would be the smoothest and greatest book in the world. Deposit deposit deposit.....play play play....lose lose lose. Fun stuff.

All of the problems happen if you are lucky enough (or unlucky enough) to have something go right. That is when the fun will begin.

[Dark Horse]

It does not matter if the line was wrong or not. I had no clue.

To 1: yes it does.
To 2: that's your problem.

[met4ventura]

I don't think Tony handled it in the most professional way but he was right . I'm surprised, I used to.go through 5dimes and felt they were the most thorough and professional. I never had a chat with Tony so I can't personally give an opinion of how he has treated me. If this is true though I'm not going with 5dimes anymore. There are a lot of sportsbooks out there, no reason to stick with one who is going to be disrespectful.

[BewareOf5Dimes]

At a minimum, the guy is the least respectable person I have ever dealt with. When you are on the wrong side of people like this who are in charge of your money, you quickly realize that the risk is not worth it. There is almost no way to win. I hear the guy routinely limits any player who wins. I am not even a winning player. He is too dumb to do the right thing.

If he does the right thing, or even is courteous about doing the wrong thing, then he might have had me as a player for 30 years. That money adds up. He could buy a house with the money. Stupid is as stupid does. The guy has no clue how to look at the big picture.

I voted with my feet. He owes the money, though I am not demanding it. He will get buried on forums if I decide that is the way to go.

[Wulfman14]

Either way,if you knew or not does not matter, he should just say:

"We apologise for the inconvenience but a mistake was made by a member of staff and the odds you took at 20/1 were actually 2/1, this a a bad line and we have the right to adjust it in accordance with our rules, again, apologies for the inconvenience caused"

Not act like a prick and treat you like a piece of dirt.

Exactly.
yes this is the way he should have spoken. he really acted like a prick and that is what aggravates his customers.

[BChrisB]

I've been gambling online for over 15 years now and I NEVER seen a bad line get posted then get adjusted 2 times. Like I said in a previous post, it's only happened to me twice. I was politely contacted by cs, they apologized, canceled my bet, and invited me to bet the corrected line if I so wished. However, those lines were noticed within a few hours (if not sooner.)

How can 5dimes be rated A+ when they can't even keep track of their own lines.

HOW DOES A BAD LINE GET POSTED THEN GO THROUGH 2 ADJUSTMENTS UNNOTICED FOR DAYS?? Then low and behold it's only noticed when the line is certain to payoff. It just doesn't seem right to me.

[me-first]

Wow, really surprised almost everyone is taking the player's side on this one..It seems to me the player was clearly taking a shot

[MadTiger]

Tony sounds like an ex-hall monitor.

I still may play at 5 Dimes, but I handle decisions differently. "Tony" had better not touch my account. If he sees MadTiger on the account name, he needs to hand it over to someone else. If they insist, then I will do worse than a thread on a message board. All legal, too.

Sportsbettors have more power as a group than you think.

[MadTiger]

All of the facts go against his way of doing business, including his deleting the play while we were on chat so I wouldn't have a record of it. Only a loser who had something to hide would delete the play from the record. That alone....if he did nothing else, is enough to convict him of being a scumbag and having to pay IN FULL.

Anybody here cosign Tony's Watergate "erase the evidence" type shit? Anyone? Bueller?

[nyplayer33]

It comes down to reading the terms and conditions and disclaimers of the site in question. I know all about this cause I play poker and see stuff the sites do and enforce. Basically, we ignore the t/c's and get to the betting aspect. Should he of handled this differently, maybe..but he is within his right to do this....

[belvedere86]

I only have 150dollar on 5dimes.

so actually 5dimes accidently ****** up the lines and now want to chance them? I think they have the right to do.

I once put a bet on an MLB game on Unibet (one of the biggest european books and trustfull) but I knew they had favored the wrong team. so 30min after I put my wager I also got an email from them where they said they had cancelled my wager because of an error they made...

[wtt0315]

interesting, heard lots of things about their boss

[teaserpleaser]

[QUOTE=BewareOf5Dimes;6317667]They are tempting. I felt the same way, but they ruined it for me. I guess if you just bet straight bets for $100 or so then you might be ok, but they embarrased me when I made a withdrawel this summer.....making me run to Kinkos 5-6 times to fax my CC front and back even though I had used ** to deposit. The CC was from months earlier when I made a few plays.

/QUOTE]
The fax thing is just one of their lil games they play when it comes withdrawl time. it felt like they were just screwing with me until i found other posters had to re-send over and over again. No easy task on a monday morning for that free payout and they know that.

[AceKingHigh]

I think hiding under the BAD LINE statement is Bullshiiit If you offered the Line, Pay it!!!! How are we supposed to know lines are bad? Tony is a DICKHEAD

Exactly! are we the line makers?! they make and post the lines, now if we lose, then they get our money right? we don't complain saying it was a bad line, give us our money back .. LOL kinda scares me I have deposited $400 there..

[scurd8]

if it was suppose to be 2 to 1 then why would they correct the mistake by making the line 15 to 1 and then 10 to 1 instead of making the correction from 20 to 1 to 2 to 1.

Absolutely this..If he wanted to be fair with you..he should have given you it at 10-1...So their odds maker is so incompetent that they not only screwed up by setting it at 20-1..but also at 15-1 and also at 10-1? Give me a break...sounds like a bunch of crooks and they'll never get a dime of my money thanks to this thread.

[John Dough]

Don't bet into bad lines. Don't get upset when a book cancels your bad line. Next...

[John Dough]

Wow, really surprised almost everyone is taking the player's side on this one..It seems to me the player was clearly taking a shot

Lots of clueless posters in this thread. I have read about seemingly legitimate issues with Tony (never had one myself), but this is not one of them. Every book I know cancels bad lines.

[shari91]

Lots of clueless posters in this thread. I have read about seemingly legitimate issues with Tony (never had one myself), but this is not one of them. Every book I know cancels bad lines.

Have you guys read the whole thread because by constantly harping about books being able to cancel bad lines, leads me to believe you haven't.

The issue isn't that a bad line shouldn't be cancelled. The fact is that the initial bad line - if it was even bad to begin with - was adjusted downwards twice to a price that was different than the price Tony himself quoted himself on Sunday that it should've initially been. And 5dimes accepted the OP's bets on all three lines with no issue until the final day of the tournament when the long-shot was leading. Again: 5 Dimes is claiming to have hung a bad line and then adjusted down twice before the tournament even began. Not one person at their book picked up on that mistake in the week or so from the time the line was initially hung until the last day of the tournament? The linesmaker didn't pick it up when he/she adjusted the line down from 20-1 to 15-1? What about when they adjusted it down from 15-1 to 10-1? BEFORE THE TOURNAMENT EVEN STARTED. If that initial line was so wrong, how could they have then gotten it wrong 2 more times? Are they just picking numbers out of their asses there? They don't check with Vegas or with other books to see the what prices they're hanging on the same prop? And then when Watney's leading on Sunday Tony comes along and says it should've been 3-1 or whatever. How do you explain that?

[Raven66]

Lots of clueless posters in this thread. I have read about seemingly legitimate issues with Tony (never had one myself), but this is not one of them. Every book I know cancels bad lines.

LMAO.....canceling a bad line after 6 days.....bad line was adjusted twice and on the last day this longshot was going to be a big payoff and Tony claims it was a bad line and cancels the bet LMAO.

Keep dreaming buddy. If this long shot was in 40th place Tony would have never contacted the OP.

[Dark Horse]

Keep dreaming buddy. If this long shot was in 40th place Tony would have never contacted the OP.

That's why you never bet a bad line. It's a no-win scenario. For the record, Tony didn't take a shot, because he readjusted the odds. If he had taken a shot he would have canceled the wager. That's what low rated books do. Big difference.

The only question is if the line was bad or not. The line histories (winner, top 5, top 10, top 20 placements) can easily determine that.

It is good to see a fresh new crop of clueless players.

[Ryangene]

I thought once that 5Dimes and SportsBet merged together they have been crap.

[Raven66]

The Odds to Win the 2010 PGA Championship
As of Wednesday, Bodog.com has listed Phil Mickelson and Tiger Woods as co-favorites to win at a price of 11-1. Just behind them is one of the youngsters who has had some incredible moments of brilliance this year, Rory McIlroy at 16/1.
A couple of veterans, Padraig Harrington and Steve Stricker, are going off at 22/1 followed by the recent winner on Tour, Hunter Mahan at 25/1. At 30/1, Ernie Els is the next choice followed by a couple of PGA Tour veterans, Jim Furyk and Reteif Goosen at 33/1.
After that, Vegas lists 10 guys going off at 40/1 including US Open Champion Graeme McDowell and Paul Casey who finished 3rd at the British Open and tied for 6th at the WGC- CA Championship. One of the golden rules of gambling is don't bet with your heart. That being said, my favorite golfer, Adam Scott, is going off at 66/1. He's won this year and played well last week at the WGC- Bridgestone Invitational where he finished in the top 10.

[ehp6737]

if it was suppose to be 2 to 1 then why would they correct the mistake by making the line 15 to 1 and then 10 to 1 instead of making the correction from 20 to 1 to 2 to 1.

This is exactly right. For the people saying it was a bad line "end of story", arent reading this guys whole story. If it was a bad line, AND THE PROP WAS TAKEN OFF THE BOARD ENTIRELY when the tournament started, then even if he called you on Sunday when it was in the bag, it's a shitty deal, but I would've still sided with 5Dimes. BUT, the fact they kept lowering and adjusting the line thruout the tournament, in my mind confirms the original line was valid. In your chat Tony said point blank "someone forgot to put a zero" which by itself makes perfect sense, the problem is numerous times after the 20-1 posting, the line WAS changed, but not to 2-1. 5Dimes had numerous opportunities to correct this line, but instead kept reducing it from 20-1 as the tournament progressed, which only proves it was indeed a 20-1 line to begin with. This is outright theft and I would file a complaint with SBR, if you havent already. Though Tony talks the way he does to his customers, I've seen a number of these where SBR was able to step in and mediate a fair resolution for both parties.

[shari91]

The Odds to Win the 2010 PGA Championship
As of Wednesday, Bodog.com has listed Phil Mickelson and Tiger Woods as co-favorites to win at a price of 11-1. Just behind them is one of the youngsters who has had some incredible moments of brilliance this year, Rory McIlroy at 16/1.
A couple of veterans, Padraig Harrington and Steve Stricker, are going off at 22/1 followed by the recent winner on Tour, Hunter Mahan at 25/1. At 30/1, Ernie Els is the next choice followed by a couple of PGA Tour veterans, Jim Furyk and Reteif Goosen at 33/1.
After that, Vegas lists 10 guys going off at 40/1 including US Open Champion Graeme McDowell and Paul Casey who finished 3rd at the British Open and tied for 6th at the WGC- CA Championship. One of the golden rules of gambling is don't bet with your heart. That being said, my favorite golfer, Adam Scott, is going off at 66/1. He's won this year and played well last week at the WGC- Bridgestone Invitational where he finished in the top 10.

The OP's bet was for Watney to finish in the top 20, not to win outright. I've been looking at sites trying to find line histories on a prop like this but can't find anything yet.

[nyplayer33]

Mosy say that 5dimes or the greek is the most solid book and will never close or anything like that. This isn;t going to change opinions on this book. In the past week i read how bookmaker is gonna be shut, legends has worst cust svc, bet phoenix is bad even though they offer free 50 dollar bet and now this...always gonna have an issue with a book...no matter how top rated they are....

[wrongturn]

I am pretty sure the lines at 5D are auto adjusted by software, although they can be manually adjusted as well. No need to accuse players as shot takers, because there are plenty of ridiculous lines heavily tilted to books' favor so books take shot at players all the time.