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The question is how many good sportsbooks will leave the US market if this Bill goes into affect. Remember what Pinnacle did when UIEGA passed.Comment -
I think physed is right. That is the biggest concern for Americans -- how many books will pull out of the US market. On the plus side, I do think that eventually it will make it easier to use processors to fund an account. Maybe not directly but with a couple of pass throughs. Let's say Paypal becomes a legal processor of poker sites. And let's say that Paypal takes transfers from a company like Neteller that funds online books directly. Because Neteller operates legally outside the US and funds sportsbooks if (and maybe the US government would outlaw them but someone will pop up) that happens then a person could wired to Paypal from their US bank then transfer to their Neteller and then send it to their sportsbook overseas from there. And to cash out simply do so in reverse order. As a bit of a cover a person could have an account with a legal US online poker site and transfer some from Paypal to the US poker site. With tons of movement in and out of your Paypal site for all sorts of things it would be very difficult to track.Comment -
i think pinnacle pulled out for other reasons...Comment -
Fisher we already discussed this in another thread. Having a poker room will have no effect on getting a license for a sportsbook. The sportsbook with a poker room will not get a license. You even highlighted the portion of the bill that makes sure of this in your previous post.
There are 2 bills. The main bill and a tax bill that is the sidekick to the main bill. Everything I have said before in this thread and everything in this post depend on the tax bill getting passed along with the main bill.
The regulations won't so much affect the sportsbooks as it will people in the US who like to bet on sports online, and pay taxes. The sportsbooks wont shut down or even really lose much money, but if you (the online sports bettor) pay taxes and deposit a lot, it will affect you in a negative way. You will owe 50% tax on all deposits. That is the only negative, but for many it is a very big negative.
It is the individual tax paying sports bettor that will be hurt the most from this. There will be those who don't even know the legislation passes and it won't matter unless they get audited and then they will have not paid the deposit tax. Thats the only risk here.
People that keep money at a lot of books and make lots of bets, and a lot of deposits will owe a ton of taxes at the end of the year. If these people care about paying taxes, it may not be worth playing any more if legislation passes and it includes the tax bill.
So to sum it up, the sportsbooks won't go away, and their bottom line won't even much be affected I don't think. It is the tax paying sports bettor that deposits a lot who will be affected by this.
So on a scale of 1 to 10, for the sportsbooks the number is about 2 for worry about this bill, for the knowledgeable taxpaying sports bettor in the US, the number is 9 if the bill passes.Comment -
Nearly every congressmen agrees this bill will do away with the UIGEA, which should open the doors to getting money faster and with less hassles for us USA customers.
Also, this bill only makes it illegal for licensed operators to accept sports bets:
2 ‘‘No licensee under this sub-chapter shall accept Internet bets or wagers on sporting events, with the exception of pari-mutuel racing as permitted by law.’’.
So, all the non-licensed business will hopefully not be effected. Now, I haven't read the entire bill so, I can't be sure. However, if the UIGEA goes down, more funding methods should open up.
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John the books don't have to worry about this legislation, it was already illegal for them to operate.Nearly every congressmen agrees this bill will do away with the UIGEA, which should open the doors to getting money faster and with less hassles for us USA customers.
Also, this bill only makes it illegal for licensed operators to accept sports bets:
2 ‘‘No licensee under this sub-chapter shall accept Internet bets or wagers on sporting events, with the exception of pari-mutuel racing as permitted by law.’’.
So, all the non-licensed business will hopefully not be effected. Now, I haven't read the entire bill so, I can't be sure. However, if the UIGEA goes down, more funding methods should open up.
The only bad thing coming out of the legislation is that every US based online sports bettor will owe 50% on every deposit. That is the only negative of the entire legislation from a sports betting point of view. But to me its a big negative.
For poker players, when this bill passes many states will opt out. The people who live in these opt out states will not have access to even halfway decent poker rooms.Comment -
50% tax on deposits is absurd, but it seems like they may go to extreme lengths to bring down sportsbetting this time around. I really wish I had a crystal ball for this one.Comment -
It is true fisher, here is the FAQ on the tax bill. The link is at the bottom.
Scroll down to where it asks "Does this bill impose any tax on individuals?"
The answer is this:
"Individuals would be required to pay annual income taxes on their net winnings, just like players who collect winnings in land-based casinos do today. Individuals who place bets with licensed Internet gambling operators would not have to pay any new taxes on funds deposited. However, individuals that deposit funds into accounts with unlicensed (“illegal”) operators will be liable to pay a fee of 50 percent of their deposit. The fee is intentionally considerable to deter individuals from gambling with unlicensed operators."
Keep in mind that ALL online sportsbooks would be considered unlicensed ("illegal") operators, whether they have a poker room or not.
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Double post hereComment -
This would be detrimental to honest taxpayers, and put them into hiding income or make a move to Vegas.
Perhaps renounce passport and find a new home citizenship.Comment -
What happens if an individual fails to pay fees or taxes?
Individuals gambling online would be responsible for paying income taxes on winnings, just as they are today. The bill does not impose any new taxes on individual gamblers engaged in lawful activities. If they chose to bet illegally with an unlicensed operator, such as a firm operating offshore that is in violation of U.S. laws, they would be responsible for paying the taxes that would otherwise be paid by the operators on their bets. This provision is intended to encourage individuals engaged in online gambling while in the U.S. to bet solely with licensed operators.
So if we bet offshore and submit our taxes we pay on our winnings..... and then pay an additional tax - one that the unlicensed operator would have payed!. If we don't submit our taxes and we get caught we pay the above and face charges of not paying in the first place.Comment -
I will just have to save my money then make a large deposit before and if this Bill goes into affect. I assume that all sportsbettors are hoping that this doesn't become law.Comment -
Yes if this bill passes, that would be not a good thing, but this bill is changed and canceled each year it seems, never getting out of committee. Last year it was H.R. 2268 and didn't have that 50% deposit fee. This year it is HR 4976 and I doubt it will move anywhere until HR 2268 (Barney Frank bill) actually becomes law. However, it still is worrisome that this current tax bill (4976) actually has added the 50% deposit fee. It already has a 2% fee the customer would have to pay if he/she deposited with an unlicensed "book" to cover the license fee and then to add an additional 50% fee, seems like a double fee and I would have to believe some congressman would try and get that removed, but who knows.
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Let's wait to see how things are going.Comment
