1. #1
    bruloc
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    Bad experience with BookMaker.eu

    So, BookMaker is refusing to correctly grade my bet and is ignoring me.


    Bet:

    https://imgur.com/a/DqNR3V0
    Result:
    https://imgur.com/a/uQgA9bQ

    Rule:
    https://imgur.com/a/sh0NiEC


    Doing the math you know that the outcome of my bet was already determined at the end of the second set.


    First rensponse to my complaint:
    https://imgur.com/a/ca57w4s


    Yeah, just the link to the rule....


    3 minutes later he/she made a better response:
    https://imgur.com/a/bg0neu8


    After that, my other two emails (talking about the exception of the rule and explaining that the outcome of the bet was already determined) were ignored.

    What should I do now?
    Last edited by bruloc; 04-08-22 at 12:02 AM.

  2. #2
    syjytg
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    You are correct. In fact bet365 always pay the moment the bet is mathematically won even before the game has ended.

  3. #3
    DR225
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    You are in the wrong here. All bets are voided at bookmaker when there's a retirement (unless they've been completed already, like first set ml). You wouldn't have won even if you had Osorio ML. The first sentence under the rules is why your bet was voided.

    Actually...Maybe you're right. I've been playing there many years and automatically assumed that it would be voided but that bottom rule is in your favor. Good luck on fixing this.
    Last edited by DR225; 04-08-22 at 01:43 AM.

  4. #4
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by syjytg View Post
    You are correct. In fact bet365 always pay the moment the bet is mathematically won even before the game has ended.
    I also had a bet on total games in the same match and Nitrobetting paid me on that moment. Like any normal book should do.

  5. #5
    bruloc
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    I tried to contact they again using their chat and the agent just closed the chat before I could say anything. All this situation is just insane.

    Then I tried again, was attended but no resolution. They still arguing about "bets will have no action if any players withdraws" ignoring the exception part stated in the rule.

  6. #6
    wombat
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    On player spread bets like yours, the complete match has to be played or else all bets are canceled. Even if the player was winning 6-0 5-0 , it doesn't matter the complete match has to be played.

    The only time when they grade the bet is on game totals for example over 21 games and the match was stopped with over 21 games played. But on spread bets, doesn't matter what the score is, the complete match must be played or no bet.
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  7. #7
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    On player spread bets like yours, the complete match has to be played or else all bets are canceled. Even if the player was winning 6-0 5-0 , it doesn't matter the complete match has to be played.

    The only time when they grade the bet is on game totals for example over 21 games and the match was stopped with over 21 games played. But on spread bets, doesn't matter what the score is, the complete match must be played or no bet.
    This don't make any sense and is not in their rules.

    It's pretty clear for me:

    Tennis bets on the full match (money line, spread, total) are considered official only once the match is completed without either player withdrawing due to injury, incapacity or disqualification.

    ...

    The exception is when the outcome of a market has already been determined.

  8. #8
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    So, BookMaker is refusing to correctly grade my bet and is ignoring me.


    Bet:

    https://imgur.com/a/DqNR3V0
    Result:
    https://imgur.com/a/uQgA9bQ

    Rule:
    https://imgur.com/a/sh0NiEC
    I think Womabat is correct.

    But PM me your Bookmaker account number and we can ask a manager to double check this bet grading for you.
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  9. #9
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by syjytg View Post
    You are correct. In fact bet365 always pay the moment the bet is mathematically won even before the game has ended.
    Bet365 rule is different to Bookmaker and most other bookmakers.

    Bet365 pays if the bet would have won if the match played out naturally.

    Bookmaker and quite a few other books require the outcome to be have already happened.

    That is why Player Handicaps are voided on retirement at most other books, whilst Game Totals can be paid still on retirement.


    Let's just ask the right person at Bookmaker.eu what they think about the OPs logic.

    Also Bookmaker has rules all the place on their website. Not just in one place. Which can make it confusing some times.
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  10. #10
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Bet365 rule is different to Bookmaker and most other bookmakers.

    Bet365 pays if the bet would have won if the match played out naturally.

    Bookmaker and quite a few other books require the outcome to be have already happened.

    That is why Player Handicaps are voided on retirement at most other books, whilst Game Totals can be paid still on retirement.


    Let's just ask the right person at Bookmaker.eu what they think about the OPs logic.

    Also Bookmaker has rules all the place on their website. Not just in one place. Which can make it confusing some times.
    I would have no problem if this was what their rules says. Make no sense voiding already won handicaps and paying totals, but it's their right to have such unlogic rule. But this is not written there. If they want this to be the rule they should have write it as "The exception is when betting on Total games and..."

  11. #11
    wombat
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    I would have no problem if this was what their rules says. Make no sense voiding already won handicaps and paying totals, but it's their right to have such unlogic rule. But this is not written there. If they want this to be the rule they should have write it as "The exception is when betting on Total games and..."
    On player spread bets, the outcome hasn't been determined yet unless the match is completed. There could be a chance that your player might retire as well. This is why they only pay out predetermined outcome on game totals and no other bet.
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  12. #12
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    On player spread bets, the outcome hasn't been determined yet unless the match is completed. There could be a chance that your player might retire as well. This is why they only pay out predetermined outcome on game totals and no other bet.
    What? Do the math man. The outcome of my +5.5 handicap was already determined at second set.

  13. #13
    wombat
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    What? Do the math man. The outcome of my +5.5 handicap was already determined at second set.
    It doesn't matter, the match has to be completed for player spread bets due to the reason I listed above.
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  14. #14
    bruloc
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    So, for example, if a player withdraws in a match with a 6-4 4-6 score, the outcome of the market O/U 20.5 games has not been determined yet and BM will void all bets in this market?

  15. #15
    wombat
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    So, for example, if a player withdraws in a match with a 6-4 4-6 score, the outcome of the market O/U 20.5 games has not been determined yet and BM will void all bets in this market?
    In that example, they will void all bets with those odds.

    They will however pay out anyone that had over 19.5 because 20 games have been played.
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  16. #16
    bruloc
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    So everything comes down to the meaning of "determined". I'm far from being fluent in english, but it does not look like the best word to be there.

  17. #17
    bruloc
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    Here is an example of a top tier rule explanation made by another book I use: https://imgur.com/a/o5ynsIO


  18. #18
    syjytg
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    Here is an example of a top tier rule explanation made by another book I use: https://imgur.com/a/o5ynsIO

    Yes this is what I said. Bet365 pays immediately the moment it is mathematically won.

  19. #19
    syjytg
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    Quote Originally Posted by wombat View Post
    On player spread bets, the outcome hasn't been determined yet unless the match is completed. There could be a chance that your player might retire as well. This is why they only pay out predetermined outcome on game totals and no other bet.
    It is already determined as ANY natural conclusion of that game that bet would had won regardless of who retires.

  20. #20
    Optional
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    Here is an example of a top tier rule explanation made by another book I use: https://imgur.com/a/o5ynsIO

    Because it uses the words "natural conclusion" like the Bet365 version of the rules.





    But what other books do is completely irrelevant anyway.

    If you are trying to argue with Bookmaker using examples from other book rules I can assure you the CS people will immediately ignore you as either knowing nothing, or knowing you are wrong and trying to say they are not allowed to have the rules you agreed to.


    I can get your query to the right person in Bookmaker if you send me your acc # and the bet ID #
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  21. #21
    syjytg
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Because it uses the words "natural conclusion" like the Bet365 version of the rules.





    But what other books do is completely irrelevant anyway.

    If you are trying to argue with Bookmaker using examples from other book rules I can assure you the CS people will immediately ignore you as either knowing nothing, or knowing you are wrong and trying to say they are not allowed to have the rules you agreed to.


    I can get your query to the right person in Bookmaker if you send me your acc # and the bet ID #
    Isn't one possible interpretation of "already determined" mean "natural conclusion"? Of course, another possible interpretation of already determined means that it must have already occurred and not just guaranteed to occur. But if there are more than 1 way to interpret their rules, shouldn't the interpretation that is in the bettor's favour be used? In any event, I hope you can ask them to give an official explanation so that their interpretation can be clearly understood.

  22. #22
    Optional
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    Anyone who has bet tennis for a while knows how this works.

    And has seen posters who did not know how it worked make threads like this the first time they come across it many times before.


    But happy to put the OPs request to a manager in there who will take it seriously. They may show him some goodwill even if they dont agree sometimes.



    BTW, it's a huge advantage to Tennis Bettors that books do have different retirement rules. It's a good thing for us.
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  23. #23
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Because it uses the words "natural conclusion" like the Bet365 version of the rules.





    But what other books do is completely irrelevant anyway.

    If you are trying to argue with Bookmaker using examples from other book rules I can assure you the CS people will immediately ignore you as either knowing nothing, or knowing you are wrong and trying to say they are not allowed to have the rules you agreed to.


    I can get your query to the right person in Bookmaker if you send me your acc # and the bet ID #
    I'm not trying to do that. You can figure it by reading what I wrote before:

    but it's their right to have such unlogic rule
    and also:

    example of a top tier rule explanation
    This same book (Stars), that uses "natural conclusion", uses "outcome has already been determined" as an exception in their general rule. So, it's the same thing.

    https://imgur.com/a/M4ZHeDw

    btw, I don't know how to post the image like you did. I click in the 'insert image' button, put the link there but the image never appears.


    PS: You asked just the account ID before, which I sent. Will be sending bet ID in a second.

  24. #24
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by Optional View Post
    Anyone who has bet tennis for a while knows how this works.

    And has seen posters who did not know how it worked make threads like this the first time they come across it many times before.


    But happy to put the OPs request to a manager in there who will take it seriously. They may show him some goodwill even if they dont agree sometimes.



    BTW, it's a huge advantage to Tennis Bettors that books do have different retirement rules. It's a good thing for us.
    Yeah, books have different betting rules. Would be of great use if they knew how to properly write them instead of making dubious rules.

  25. #25
    syjytg
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    Quote Originally Posted by bruloc View Post
    I'm not trying to do that. You can figure it by reading what I wrote before:



    and also:



    This same book (Stars), that uses "natural conclusion", uses "outcome has already been determined" as an exception in their general rule. So, it's the same thing.

    https://imgur.com/a/M4ZHeDw

    btw, I don't know how to post the image like you did. I click in the 'insert image' button, put the link there but the image never appears.


    PS: You asked just the account ID before, which I sent. Will be sending bet ID in a second.
    The link you gave had an example on first set which was already completed so it doesn't help to explain the meaning of already determined.

  26. #26
    milwaukee mike
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    i'm pretty sure the part about "outcome of a MARKET already determined" means if you bet on someone to win the 1st set, and the 1st set was finished before the withdrawal

  27. #27
    bruloc
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    Quote Originally Posted by syjytg View Post
    The link you gave had an example on first set which was already completed so it doesn't help to explain the meaning of already determined.
    Of course it helps.

    "All wagers will be void in the event of a match starting but not being completed, except for bets where the outcome has already been determined."


    If the only exception is for bets where the outcome has already been determined, you can only conclude that those two examples I posted before are outcomes already determined.

  28. #28
    bruloc
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    Enough of this. I'm already wasting too much time on this.

    @Optional, thank you, but I don't want to proceed on this matter anymore. Let it be this way.

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