Caught Intertops cheating me on bitcoin payouts, now they won't respond

**DontTailMe** · 07-23-19, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by HisAirness

I've now sent them three separate emails over the pas weeks trying to get to the bottom of this and they have still not responded. I guess I'll start a thread. The real truth is actually worse than what I initially posted in another thread about Intertops doing this to other customers.

The full story is that I initially requested $2,460 on June 18. On June 21, they sent me an email asking me to confirm that I requested this payout, and I responded within a few hours, the same day, stating that yes I did request the payout. They never responded and then canceled my request on June 24. Bitcoin went up 15% during the time between my request and them canceling it, and I guess they wanted to make sure they could short me.

I requested a new payout June 24, for the same $2,460, and then they sent me $2,050 on June 27. $310 short. They didn't send me any emails to confirm that one.

Maybe it's just a coincidence, but I find it hard to believe they can be this incompetent. The email they sent to cancel my payout said "We write to inform you that your recent withdrawal was denied and the funds are currently in your real player account. This request was denied because you have not responded to the email confirming that you requested the withdrawal."

When I pointed out that I did indeed respond to their confirmation email, they never addressed this.

This was the seventh payout I requested from these guys. Weird that they never sent this email confirmation for any of the other payouts.

So it seems Intertops will take the bitcoin price at some point in time between your request and them sending the money several days later. You don't know when, because there is no transparency with them. But if BTC happens to go up in this time, rest assured they'll cancel your payout, and only send it to you after another request, when the BTC price has gone down.

Between them canceling the first withdrawal and then shorting me on the second, I lost about $600 on a $2460 withdrawal.

I understand why you'd be suspicious, but I honestly don't believe the email verification / cancel was due to them trying to time the Bitcoin price. The simplest answer is incompetence / mistake on that one. I was actually the beneficiary of one of these email verifications as my account was hacked and someone tried to empty my account to their bitcoin wallet. I'm pretty sure they use a 3rd party to process bitcoin transactions and therefore aren't holding any themselves. In fact, this is probably what leads them to short people on a lot of payouts - the time delay between Intertops approving the payout and sending the transaction request to the external 3rd party processor and them actually submitting a transaction. Someone has to eat the price difference in the case of a drop, and Intertops has apparently decided that it's you and me who should take that hit.

They definitely are shorting their players on payouts, and it's BS.

**joey sangria** · 07-23-19, 01:54 PM

A common practice from most sportsbooks these days......that why they prefer you transact by Bitcoin- so they can work it to their advantage.

**Limited** · 07-23-19, 02:01 PM

Yep, including A+ rated bookies, at best you'll lose only around 1% if BTC jumps parabolic up, they will give u an exact deposited amount, but if BTC tanks during the transaction, you'll get a market price or even less than market. Free rolling players on BTC volatility.

**Optional** · 07-23-19, 02:34 PM

Intertops is annoying how they handle bitcoin payouts. It is what it is though really. Been that way a long time and they show no sign of changing.

That said, losing $310 on a $2460 withdrawal is out of order.

If you send in a complaint form SBR may be able to ask a manager to review this for you https://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

I notice you also mention losing about $600. I assume this is something to do with exchange rate changes from the day you requested? If so, don't muddy the water mentioning it. All that matters is the exact value at the moment it was transferred to you. If you are not 100% sure what that was (search for the transaction ID on blockchain.com and hover mouse over the send value) then PM the tx ID to me or check it yourself before submitting the complaint form so you have the number exact.

**rangerz2478** · 07-25-19, 01:57 AM

Originally posted by Optional

Intertops is annoying how they handle bitcoin payouts. It is what it is though really. Been that way a long time and they show no sign of changing.

That said, losing $310 on a $2460 withdrawal is out of order.

If you send in a complaint form SBR may be able to ask a manager to review this for you https://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

I notice you also mention losing about $600. I assume this is something to do with exchange rate changes from the day you requested? If so, don't muddy the water mentioning it. All that matters is the exact value at the moment it was transferred to you. If you are not 100% sure what that was (search for the transaction ID on blockchain.com and hover mouse over the send value) then PM the tx ID to me or check it yourself before submitting the complaint form so you have the number exact.

Kudos to you optional for admitting this on a sponsored book. Brought this up YEARS ago regarding intertops and they clearly havent stopped.

**DiggityDaggityDo** · 07-25-19, 02:02 AM

Opti is top notch.

**HisAirness** · 07-26-19, 01:56 PM

Originally posted by Optional

Intertops is annoying how they handle bitcoin payouts. It is what it is though really. Been that way a long time and they show no sign of changing.

That said, losing $310 on a $2460 withdrawal is out of order.

If you send in a complaint form SBR may be able to ask a manager to review this for you https://www.sportsbookreview.com/sportsbook-complaint/

I notice you also mention losing about $600. I assume this is something to do with exchange rate changes from the day you requested? If so, don't muddy the water mentioning it. All that matters is the exact value at the moment it was transferred to you. If you are not 100% sure what that was (search for the transaction ID on blockchain.com and hover mouse over the send value) then PM the tx ID to me or check it yourself before submitting the complaint form so you have the number exact.

Thank you Optional. I have submitted a complaint, and hopefully will get a response from Intertops now, and hopefully they'll refund the missing money.

**HisAirness** · 07-31-19, 02:18 PM

I have still not received any response from Intertops. I did receive word from SBR that "Intertops stand by their process."

Here is their process: https://imgur.com/a/Sg7Vz1P

The payout came in 17% short. I don't think bitcoin even went down by nearly 17% in that time frame. Anybody want to check?

**Ant23** · 07-31-19, 08:21 PM

His Airness.......anybody want to check? It's your $$$ homie so why would the members here want to check for you? Evidently it's a settled matter

**Stallion** · 07-31-19, 08:28 PM

You should check on your own, good luck getting your money back. That's why so many books want people to use Bitcoin now.. so they can rip them off every transaction.

**milwaukee mike** · 08-01-19, 06:03 AM

Originally posted by HisAirness

I have still not received any response from Intertops. I did receive word from SBR that "Intertops stand by their process."

Here is their process: https://imgur.com/a/Sg7Vz1P

The payout came in 17% short. I don't think bitcoin even went down by nearly 17% in that time frame. Anybody want to check?

price it finally confirmed at looks like $10,533, bitcoin was on the wild side that day and was over 12,800 before selling off

so it's possible that a large chunk of that was price fluctuation... seems like intertops is usually short a couple % but not 17%

**DontTailMe** · 08-08-19, 10:15 PM

Originally posted by Optional

If you send in a complaint form SBR may be able to ask a manager to review this for you

I have submitted a complaint form for my Intertops payout shortage. It took some time because I wanted to give them another opportunity to address my evidence that the shortage was due to a process issue on their end and not bitcoin price fluctuation on mine. I have included this evidence in my submittal to SBR.

**Foosball Champ** · 08-09-19, 05:56 PM

i have been trying to get a payout from Intertops for a week. they won't even let me request my payout. they require a verification process to be performed. they requested that i send them a photo of my id and some utility bills which i did. now they are saying that they didn't receive it. advice.

**Optional** · 08-09-19, 06:42 PM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

I have submitted a complaint form for my Intertops payout shortage. It took some time because I wanted to give them another opportunity to address my evidence that the shortage was due to a process issue on their end and not bitcoin price fluctuation on mine. I have included this evidence in my submittal to SBR.

I hope we can help.

Originally posted by Foosball Champ

i have been trying to get a payout from Intertops for a week. they won't even let me request my payout. they require a verification process to be performed. they requested that i send them a photo of my id and some utility bills which i did. now they are saying that they didn't receive it. advice.

Not much you can do but try again?

Maybe try sending the image files as separate emails in case they are too large all combined in one email?

**Foosball Champ** · 08-09-19, 07:06 PM

opti thanks. i have done that yesterday. no response.

**DontTailMe** · 08-09-19, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by Foosball Champ

opti thanks. i have done that yesterday. no response.

They have a phone number and I’ve found are quite friendly. I would call them and ask if they see the emails. If no, keep them on the phone while resending and get confirmation.

**HisAirness** · 08-12-19, 02:54 PM

Originally posted by Ant23

His Airness.......anybody want to check? It's your $$$ homie so why would the members here want to check for you? Evidently it's a settled matter

Nope, not settled.

I requested my withdrawal on June 24. Bitcoin price was $10,600 on that day. When Intertops sent the withdrawal, the price was $10,533. And yet, the price they used to calculate my withdrawal was apparently $12,643 for one bitcoin. That's a joke and a crock of shit and they stole $410 from me shorting on my payout. This, AFTER they canceled my previous payout for no reason at all. They are gaming the system. I would like them to admit it and I'd like them to return the funds.

**Foosball Champ** · 08-12-19, 05:34 PM

still waiting for intertops to make my account available to request withdrawal.

**SBR Forum** · 08-12-19, 05:44 PM

Originally posted by Optional

Intertops is annoying how they handle bitcoin payouts. It is what it is though really. Been that way a long time and they show no sign of changing.

It is the difference between getting your bitcoin withdrawal processed the same day or 2-3 days later. We've spoken with management on the policy and shared our thoughts as well as users'. Bitcoin payouts the same day should be the expectation if requested early enough in the business day.

**Stallion** · 08-12-19, 05:52 PM

Intertops stiffed 2 guys on the Bitcoin transactions and will not admit it or pay the difference. Intertops should be downgraded immediately. Good luck to the 2 posters in this thread, I hope you guys get your money back.

**Optional** · 08-12-19, 06:49 PM

Originally posted by Stallion

Intertops stiffed 2 guys on the Bitcoin transactions and will not admit it or pay the difference. Intertops should be downgraded immediately. Good luck to the 2 posters in this thread, I hope you guys get your money back.

It's a function of their payment processor deal. They are paying the processor for the right amount of bitcoin to be sent when ordered but the exchange rate changes before its actually sent. And it's amplified when it takes 2 or 3 days to happen.

For whatever reason this is the bitcoin payment solution they have and they don't look like changing. And is probably part of the reason they are only A rated instead of A+ as it is.

**HisAirness** · 08-23-19, 09:06 AM

The processor deal is one thing, but what gets me is that they sent me a confirmation email, I replied, and then they canceled my payout as if I didn't even reply. What was the point of that confirmation security email? Due to BTC fluctuation, I think I was going to get a little extra on that payout, so they canceled it.

On the next payout, when they sent me $410 less than I should have received, there was no security email. Imagine that!

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 08-23-19, 09:08 AM

they have shorted me on numerous payouts in the past as well.

I won't play there anymore for that and other reasons as well.

**DontTailMe** · 08-31-19, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Optional

I hope we can help.

Hey, Optional. I've never gone through a complaint process before. Should I have received some sort of communication by now? It's been over 3 weeks. I did get the automated email confirming the dispute had been submitted but nothing else.

**Optional** · 08-31-19, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by DontTailMe

Hey, Optional. I've never gone through a complaint process before. Should I have received some sort of communication by now? It's been over 3 weeks. I did get the automated email confirming the dispute had been submitted but nothing else.

You can reply to that confirmation and it will go direct to the right person. But this is pretty much the official answer from SBR about it really. :\

Originally posted by SBR Forum

It is the difference between getting your bitcoin withdrawal processed the same day or 2-3 days later. We've spoken with management on the policy and shared our thoughts as well as users'. Bitcoin payouts the same day should be the expectation if requested early enough in the business day.

Intertops just don't seem to think bitcoin fluctuations are their problem in this process.

Personally I don't agree with them but it's been this way for years and I don't think they will be changing anytime soon.

**DontTailMe** · 08-31-19, 05:55 PM

Originally posted by Optional

You can reply to that confirmation and it will go direct to the right person. But this is pretty much the official answer from SBR about it really. :\

Intertops just don't seem to think bitcoin fluctuations are their problem in this process.

Personally I don't agree with them but it's been this way for years and I don't think they will be changing anytime soon.

I agree fluctuation would not be their problem once they sent. But if they convert from BTC to USD 24 hours before sending it, then their process is broken, plain and simple

I've provided proof that Intertops screwed me by waiting that amount of time, allowing the price of BTC to drop before sending it to me. I'd like to proceed with the case and, if they aren't going to compensate me for the loss of value they caused, at least make them admit they don't care. At which point, I'll publish all of my proof here. Hopefully, they come to their senses and realize that the time delay allowed by their process was unreasonable in my case. Maybe they'll even consider fixing their process so that the BTC->USD conversion is closer to the time of the actual BTC txn, so this whole mess can be avoided for future players.

**Optional** · 08-31-19, 06:10 PM

I'm in agreement with you DTM, that the US$ value you request should be equal to the bitcoin exchange value at the moment of send. Not the amount of bitcoin that it's worth at the moment of approval. It's frustrating that Intertops have convinced themselves of the opposite.

Usually it's works out fine for most people but when it happens slow or there is a big sudden rate change, there is another thread like this.

**dynamite140** · 09-02-19, 11:40 PM

Are they still doing it now?

**DontTailMe** · 09-09-19, 07:26 PM

Originally posted by Optional

You can reply to that confirmation and it will go direct to the right person.

I've been trying to reply to that email for over a week now but every email keeps getting rejected by your server. What should I do to get a status update? I also want to make sure they have everything they need from me.

**Jordano5354** · 09-11-19, 05:29 PM

That's why I stick with reputable offshore book.

**DontTailMe** · 09-20-19, 12:10 AM

Originally posted by Optional

You can reply to that confirmation and it will go direct to the right person.

Still getting undeliverable responses from your email server whenever I try to reply to the original dispute confirmation. Can someone please help? I have no idea what's going on.

**DontTailMe** · 09-20-19, 10:02 PM

Delete me.