New Generation of Social Betting and Exchanges

Optional · 08-10-24, 11:06 AM

Like you say liquidity is the issue.

I think what needs to happen is something like how licensing works in Australia. Each state honors all the other states licenses for betting exchanges so USA can create one large pool of players.

Even Betfair fell into the trap of needing market makers to prop up liquidity. Not sure how anything but a national, and licensed, setup could achieve that.

Crusherrr · 08-10-24, 11:13 AM

Originally posted by Optional

Like you say liquidity is the issue.

I think what needs to happen is something like how licensing works in Australia. Each state honors all the other states licenses for betting exchanges so USA can create one large pool of players.

Even Betfair fell into the trap of needing market makers to prop up liquidity. Not sure how anything but a national, and licensed, setup could achieve that.

Well I'm more interested in getting feedback on Social betting, but I did mention exchanges. There are several exchanges launching across the states (42+ states) before Week 1 NFL. They are using the Sweepstakes model. One had a license in Colorado(NoVig) and one in New Jersey(ProphetX) and they will now be able to be available in most states. They are working with MM's to provide liquidity for a %. The liquidity should be available.

What can sites do to gain traffic and get more players to learn about these options. Most are just blinded by the constant ad spend that DK/FD and several others have and stick with the traditional sportsbook model. If we can help educate bettors and get them to these sites its better for them and better for US.

Optional · 08-10-24, 11:51 AM

I'm not sure I understand how social betting is different to an exchange, functionally for the end user.

bookie · 08-10-24, 12:04 PM

Social betting and exchanges both fall into the peer-to-peer category, and technologists have been trying to make that model work ever since the Internet became a thing. It makes so much sense, but the necessary liquidity has never come close to being achieved. Dozens and dozens of startups, legal and less legal, have crashed and burned chasing the peer-to-peer sports betting dream.

ProphetX will be the test balloon. All serious players have their fingers crossed hoping ProphetX can break through and the government won't "clarify" the loophole that allows them to operate across state lines. I've got my fingers crossed too, but I'm not holding my breath.

bookie · 08-10-24, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Optional

I'm not sure I understand how social betting is different to an exchange, functionally for the end user.

Same. It's a marketing distinction, not a practical one.

Optional · 08-10-24, 12:35 PM

Originally posted by bookie

Social betting and exchanges both fall into the peer-to-peer category, and technologists have been trying to make that model work ever since the Internet became a thing. It makes so much sense, but the necessary liquidity has never come close to being achieved. Dozens and dozens of startups, legal and less legal, have crashed and burned chasing the peer-to-peer sports betting dream.

ProphetX will be the test balloon. All serious players have their fingers crossed hoping ProphetX can break through and the government won't "clarify" the loophole that allows them to operate across state lines. I've got my fingers crossed too, but I'm not holding my breath.

Back in the day Betfair had plenty of liquidity on every market they hung. For a few years, until they got legislated into oblivion.

It was awesome back then.

Crusherrr · 08-10-24, 05:15 PM

Originally posted by Optional

I'm not sure I understand how social betting is different to an exchange, functionally for the end user.

In the sense that social betting seems to be membership based and exchanges will charge a % of the bet for being the market maker. I've seen sites do a small spread and I've seen sites take a 1% commission on the winning bet. Social betting you could save a lot more money if you are betting a lot each month/year.

It appears that NoVig is planning to take a 1-4% spread in less liquid markets as they are providing the liquidity themselves and if you are a high volume (pro/hedge fund type) there will be an additional fee structure added.

crinkledaces · 08-11-24, 08:58 AM

Betopenly is a decent peer to peer betting site. They take BTC Paypal and *************** for deposit methods and the same for withdraw. They charge 1% on the total bet(If you bet 100 and it gets matched you would pay 2 bucks). Very cool site they pay out on time and there is decent liquidity. They allow you to be the house on parlays and have futures and props. Sometimes there lines are a bit off and you can actually arb the lines posted. Another site that I use is play.Kutt. There fees are higher and site is clunky imo. I've always dreamed of opening my own exchange and burying all these POS books that restrict and lower limits of players but Optional is right LIQUIDITY IS THE KEY. If it could be handled like the futures market where there are market makers in place to take trades when there is low liquidity that would be the key. I don't see this country uniting to all exchanges cross borders because the books pay off everyone with their giant pockets.

crinkledaces · 08-11-24, 08:59 AM

Not sure why DD got stared thru but ACH hopefully I'm not doing anything wrong here

Optional · 08-11-24, 09:22 AM

Originally posted by crinkledaces

Not sure why DD got stared thru but ACH hopefully I'm not doing anything wrong here

It's an old auto-censor. Software changing so they dont want to mess with the current complex/clunky setup to change anything that isn't vital.

Ylla1 · 08-10-25, 05:25 PM

Originally posted by Crusherrr

Well I'm more interested in getting feedback on Social betting, but I did mention exchanges. There are several exchanges launching across the states (42+ states) before Week 1 NFL. They are using the Sweepstakes model. One had a license in Colorado(NoVig) and one in New Jersey(ProphetX) and they will now be able to be available in most states. They are working with MM's to provide liquidity for a %. The liquidity should be available.

What can sites do to gain traffic and get more players to learn about these options. Most are just blinded by the constant ad spend that DK/FD and several others have and stick with the traditional sportsbook model. If we can help educate bettors and get them to these sites its better for them and better for US.

Wanted to bump this… Is there any updates on this? Like for Prophetx, Vig, etc?

I think this is revolutionary for people trying to avoid getting limited. I think I heard liquidity may be better than before on ProphetX?

2Sweeet · 08-10-25, 05:32 PM

Dead and u no it dick head. Stop bumping threads to promote sites dick head...

Optional · 08-11-25, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by 2Sweeet

Dead and u no it dick head. Stop bumping threads to promote sites dick head...

I suggested he bump this thread to get the attention of Crusherrr, Bookie and Aces

Waterstpub87 · 08-11-25, 10:01 PM

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from Novig or Prophetx about NJ. The sweepstakes ban takes effect in two days. No mention from either site if it applies to them, or if they are fighting it.

Crusherrr · 08-12-25, 11:39 AM

Originally posted by Waterstpub87

I'm surprised we haven't heard anything from Novig or Prophetx about NJ. The sweepstakes ban takes effect in two days. No mention from either site if it applies to them, or if they are fighting it.

Sweeps sites don't do anything unless they receive a C&D order directly to them. They're holding on for dear life even though doomsday is coming sooner or later. They don't have CT as restricted even though it's been banned here for many months.

NoVig also just secured like $18m in private funding yesterday as well. That's a big investment in something that could and should be shut down very soon. California ban would be a massive hit to them all too.

Waterstpub87 · 08-12-25, 12:46 PM

Originally posted by Crusherrr

Sweeps sites don't do anything unless they receive a C&D order directly to them. They're holding on for dear life even though doomsday is coming sooner or later. They don't have CT as restricted even though it's been banned here for many months.

NoVig also just secured like $18m in private funding yesterday as well. That's a big investment in something that could and should be shut down very soon. California ban would be a massive hit to them all too.

Makes sense. Its like offshore, but less intelligent. Makes me a little paranoid that they don't mention anything.

Crusherrr · 08-12-25, 01:34 PM

The part the scares me the most if the Sweeps Cash/Coins or whatever they call them on these sites have NO VALUE until redeemed. They shut-down tomorrow and owe players nothing. It's virtual coins, not USD. I don't think ProphetX or NoVig ever scam players but I could totally see Fliff and some other smaller sweepstakes casinos doing it.

When CT got kicked from Global/Chumba/Luckyland I had $20,000 in AMOE requests in the mail that I never got credited for. They weren't received and credited before the state got banned. I've now crossed into the six-figure amount easily for money I've been scammed/stolen or never received from offshore/club/PPH/sweepstakes sites.

Ylla1 · 08-12-25, 02:33 PM

I’m new to this, even if these sites got banned in NJ, wouldn’t they still be operational in most other states?

Or would a ban in NJ, California lead to a big liquidity issue?

Or is the sweepstakes ban on a national level? I was only seeing a ban in NJ

Waterstpub87 · 08-12-25, 02:35 PM

I pulled from Prophet the other day. There is no action when I want to bet on props. With the 3% vig, it isn't as competitive on sides or totals. Novig, I pulled like 75% out ahead of Thursday.

Waterstpub87 · 08-12-25, 02:43 PM

Originally posted by Ylla1

I’m new to this, even if these sites got banned in NJ, wouldn’t they still be operational in most other states?

Or would a ban in NJ, California lead to a big liquidity issue?

Or is the sweepstakes ban on a national level? I was only seeing a ban in NJ

The sweepstakes model is a legal loophole. Places are closing it. How many states have to close it before it becomes non operational.

Those of us who played offshore tend to be kind of gunshy with these things. Offshore sites were good, until they weren't, which sometimes happend very quickly.

Waterstpub87 · 08-12-25, 09:01 PM

Novig pulling from NJ. Got the email.

Ylla1 · 08-12-25, 11:52 PM

Originally posted by Waterstpub87

The sweepstakes model is a legal loophole. Places are closing it. How many states have to close it before it becomes non operational.

Those of us who played offshore tend to be kind of gunshy with these things. Offshore sites were good, until they weren't, which sometimes happend very quickly.

Oh ok got it.. Is there a good amount of action on some of these sites? I was going through Prophetx and it seems like it may be hard to get some action on some plays. Especially prop bets? I don’t really know though

Waterstpub87 · 08-13-25, 09:47 AM

You could occasionally get 300$+ down on pitcher strike outs. That was about it. Occasionally you could get a steal on a baseball first five. Most of the time though, the prices, when taking into account the 3% fee, were not much better than other sites. Anything else, no offers.

Novig was better. You could get most props or things you wanted, often with better prices. Usually a 200$ or so offer.

I between 6 30 and 9 am mostly on game days.

betbet22 · 08-13-25, 05:14 PM

Interested to see what happens tomorrow with the exchanges when the bill officially passes. ProphetX initially said they're going to pull out of NJ and then took their statement back today. Novig is preparing to leave but is waiting to see what happens as well. Hoping both of them are able to continue to operate.

Ylla1 · 08-13-25, 05:47 PM

Originally posted by Waterstpub87

You could occasionally get 300$+ down on pitcher strike outs. That was about it. Occasionally you could get a steal on a baseball first five. Most of the time though, the prices, when taking into account the 3% fee, were not much better than other sites. Anything else, no offers.

Novig was better. You could get most props or things you wanted, often with better prices. Usually a 200$ or so offer.

I between 6 30 and 9 am mostly on game days.

Oh ok. Thanks.. I’ll look into novig more

2Sweeet · 08-13-25, 08:12 PM

These sites r as good as dead u should get every penny out yesterday.

betbet22 · 08-15-25, 09:40 AM

Originally posted by 2Sweeet

These sites r as good as dead u should get every penny out yesterday.

Why do you think so?

JetMutley · 08-17-25, 10:09 AM

This has been tried for decades. It's for player's that don't want to pay juice. Good luck getting more than $20 straight bet on NFL. Only one that could pull this off is Robinhood.

Ylla1 · 08-20-25, 10:57 PM

Originally posted by JetMutley

This has been tried for decades. It's for player's that don't want to pay juice. Good luck getting more than $20 straight bet on NFL. Only one that could pull this off is Robinhood.

Just looked this up. Didn’t realize Robinhood was offering something like this.

This could be big if people get on board. No more betting against the house or limits.

They just announced they’re offering a few prop bets for the nfl now