First of all most of us all know as do the other trainers, that Bob Bafferet is one of the biggest horse dopers out there. But what I really want to ask is if they end up disqualifying his horse, does anyone think that any of the books will credit anyone that had the 2nd place winner? In my opinion I dont think so. I just think with all the advancements in Medicine, the industry has to develop some kind of instant drug test that could be administered instantly after that race before its made official. Over the years I have torn up so many tickets, only to find out weeks later that the horse that beat me was disqualified and the purse and order of finish was changed. They seem to protect the owners, but do nothing to protect the bettors.......
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if you can't ensure the horses are on a level playing field then the sport, to me, is useless. too many variables to keep track of besides the skills of the horse.Comment -
Not a chance suckerbet. Once prices are posted, the race is official and any future DQs are ignored for betting purposes.Comment -
Yup, I agree as a horse player I am just hoping in the future some kind of instant test is developed, to prevent cheaters from winning.......Comment -
Agree, once prices are posted, it doesn't matter what happens afterward as far as the Kentucky Derby is concerned. But for triple crown bettors that bet him, and assuming his 2nd drug test confirms the 1st, will Books pay out if Medina Spirit wins the next two races?Originally posted by LT ProfitsComment -
Now THATS a very good question I do not know the answer to.Originally posted by HedgeHogComment -
I would say no, because he is not considered the Triple Crown winner in the history books.Comment -
They could just not list him!! No action!!Originally posted by HedgeHogComment -
He is talking about guys that bet him to win Triple Crown before Derby.Originally posted by jackpot269Comment -
I see now after reading again! I was thinking about the odds on the races going forward, I misread!!Originally posted by LT ProfitsComment -
But on the other hand, the books paid him out as winner on Derby Futures, so they may consider him "Betting" Triple Crown winner. It is an interesting conundrum.Originally posted by StackinGreen
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The horse can still race, it's just the trainer might be banned.Comment -
Yes but that's irrelevant to the question, i.e., would books consider him Triple Crown winner for betting purposes if he wins last two legs.Originally posted by StallionComment -
Like everything else where there's big money involved, it amounts to little more than a smack on the back on a hand. If they could issue LIFETIME BANS than that would be a great start. The thing there is that maybe the trainer becomes a puppet pulling the strings for a new trainer behind the curtain. No you have to start with fines that ROCK the world!Originally posted by StallionComment -
The DAMAGE this does goes FAR FAR beyond the Derby! His punishment should as wellComment -
Admittedly this is a gray area. But I would argue yes because the Books recognized Medina Spirit as the Derby winner and paid out accordingly. So now if MS wins the next 2 races, how can they deny payout on the triple crown--after they affirmed him as the 1st leg winner? Seems contradictory to me.Originally posted by StackinGreenComment -
The difference is that the Triple Crown future isn't completed until the next two races are over. So they have to benefit of time. For them to ignore the fact that the horse was DQ'd when it comes time to grade would be absurd.Originally posted by HedgeHogComment -
Not absurd considering even those that bet the horse on track cashed as winners, and online shops that have the benefit of being able to regrade wagers after the fact do just that, ignore fact horse was DQed by paying out Derby futures as winners. So I guess what I am saying is their is no obvious answer. I also think we will never find out as I doubt he wins the next two races abyway.Originally posted by DontTailMe
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Typical that you would take a Pro-Book position in an ambiguous situation, I see it time again from you. The Books can't have it both ways. If Medina Spirit is not the winner of the Derby in their view, then they need to regrade bets accordingly before the Preakness is run. Otherwise Triple Crown bettors on MS are being freerolled. What's "absurd" is bettors like you being ok with this.Originally posted by DontTailMeComment -
How in the world is that a pro-book position? There are players on both sides of the Triple Crown wager. What we're talking about here is which side wins.Originally posted by HedgeHog
Our difference in opinion is one of timing. Once bets are paid out, it's over. That's how it usually works, correct? Pending futures aren't over. There's no inconsistency there. I'm fairly certain that books won't pay out Triple Crown Yes, if at the time of grading the official record says there was no Triple Crown, DQ or no DQ.
BTW - I said multiple times in that other thread I hope MyBookie pays out, so you're a little confused. But either way, just like everyone here, I'm only doing my best to apply logic and evidence to difference situations to draw my own conclusions and seek the truth. Don't confuse that with being pro-book, just because we don't always agree.Comment -
This thread is not about My Bookie, so try to stay on topic. It's about Books recognizing Medina Spirit as the Derby winner (regardless of future developments), but disqualifying him as far as the Triple Crown is concerned. I get that this is difficult for you to understand, but it is contradictory to grade him as a winner on one and a loser on the other. The Books cannot consider him the Derby Winner and at the same time exclude him from winning the next 2 legs to complete the triple crown. Do you not comprehend that this is a freeroll?Originally posted by DontTailMeComment -
he will not be DQed officially from the derby for months. so when he wins preakenss and Belmont (big if of course) They will pay triple crown wager at the books. or if he loses one of those the no is paid.Originally posted by HedgeHogComment -
If Medina Spirit wins the Preakness and Belmont, bettors will be paid off on him winning the Triple Crown. No question. No debate. The only alternative is for them to go back and pay off on Kentucky Derby win tickets on Mandaloun, which they will not do.Comment -
When you say that it's typical of me to take a pro book decision, then it's obvious you're referring to something outside of the Kentucky Derby discussion. But you should never pass up an opportunity to make a condescending remark like the above.Originally posted by HedgeHog
I addressed this in my last post. It may *seem* contradictory superficially, but it's not a problem if that's the outcome rules / past precedent call for. It's not a free roll. There are 2 different wagers having 2 different grade dates, and they were/will be graded based on the official record at the time. The fact that the outcome is different is nothing more than a curiosity.I get that this is difficult for you to understand, but it is contradictory to grade him as a winner on one and a loser on the other. The Books cannot consider him the Derby Winner and at the same time exclude him from winning the next 2 legs to complete the triple crown. Do you not comprehend that this is a freeroll?Comment -
If that's the case, then there shouldn't be a grading controversy. I thought the results would be known sooner.Originally posted by trytrytryComment -
Agreed.Comment
