*Resolved* Update on Pinnacle $73,000 Claim

[Vyasports]

im confused here,
Did pinn cancel all bets (live bets and pre-match bets) on the smith v albot match for all bettors because of suspicious betting in general OR they cancelled it only for OP because of suspicious betting pattern from him?

[Brooklyn Dick]

Anybody here think if the guy lost it would have been cancelled as "Suspicious"?

[jjgold]

Anybody here think if the guy lost it would have been cancelled as "Suspicious"?

nope

[dealer wins]

If possible, maybe set up a 2nd pinnacle account via an agent or trusted friend, and when making big bets on a match, use the other account to make a small bet on the other player, too see if they actually void losing bets too. If not they are banged to rights.

[jazzmonkey]

im confused here,
Did pinn cancel all bets (live bets and pre-match bets) on the smith v albot match for all bettors because of suspicious betting in general OR they cancelled it only for OP because of suspicious betting pattern from him?

They cancelled all bets on the match, mine was cancelled anyway (pre match). Would love to see the Betfair in-play odds for this, that would probably clear up the issue.

[jazzmonkey]

Anybody here think if the guy lost it would have been cancelled as "Suspicious"?

I do. Albot probably threw the second set but would need to see odds to be sure

[WizoWizo]

Anybody here think if the guy lost it would have been cancelled as "Suspicious"?

Well that situation also happened to me, in fact it happened twice(betting the same way against the same player Radu Albot), and Pinnacle never returned me a cent, they didn't tell that the bets were suspicious and didn't cancel the bets. Please see attached the screenshots of what I am saying.

screenshot1
screenshot2
screenshot3

Here you can see that on November 12 I placed a total of $53,224.00$ against Radu Albot, but because I lost all the bets, nothing was suspicious for them. Let's talk honestly: Aren't these bets far more suspicious than the ones I placed on February 23?
On November 10 I lost $14,700.00 placing on odds from 3.63 to 9.32 . Why were my bets considered lost instantly after the match ended on November 10 and 12 then?
Even after this incident I continued placing such bets and similar situations happened, unfortunately, I lost all of my bets and not a single bet was suspicious for them and not a single bet was cancelled. Also, attached you can see the screenshots of my refunded bets.

screenshot4
screenshot5

[WizoWizo]

im confused here,
Did pinn cancel all bets (live bets and pre-match bets) on the smith v albot match for all bettors because of suspicious betting in general OR they cancelled it only for OP because of suspicious betting pattern from him?

This is just a guess (after reading some comments), but I suspect that they cancelled everyone's bets on the match. However, the reason for doing so is my bets or rather not wanting to pay my winnings. Which means many people got their bets cancelled because of me. It has already been almost a month since my bets were cancelled, but Pinnacle didn't even try to "persuade/prove" me that suspicious betting happened during that match.

[caramba]

And Pinnacle is supposed to be an elite sportsbook ...
I hope you keep fighting and don't let them get away with this.

Jazzmonkey, I take it they cancelled your prematch bets after the match?

[Alfie White]

There has been a lot of talk regarding Pinnacle not liking their odds getting "manipulated" in this manner (betting consecutively and pushing the line). The thing Opti said most likely is the case here - you have been caught in the net with some people that tend to push the lines in their own advantage but in a different way.

Their bots must have noticed the line getting changed and they picked up the pace with you, betting alongside. So actually someone else was following your bets and your lines movement and Pinnacle noticed that activity and decided to void it all. I am not defending them, but just trying to put my 2c and explain what might've happened.

Also, saying that everyone's bets were cancelled because of you is giving yourself a bit too much credit

[caramba]

If Pinny doesn't like that someone places repeated bets on a line, they should do what some other books do and not allow player to place a 2nd bet on same line for another x amount of seconds, not freeroll customers and void bets three hours after the match ends in case the result doesn't go their way.
As for whether others got bets cancelled because of OP, we don't know, but I would say it's plausible that the book saw their result on the match and didn't like it, noticed a big loss to one customer and rather than just void his bets (because then they would have to explain why they voided his bets and not others) they cancelled everyone's bets.
I expected better from Pinnacle, they always played fair back when I played there, but this is not a good look for them at all.

[caramba]

Also, back in the day, if there was a dispute with them, they would give you the choice of getting paid on the bets but have your account closed. Is that still on offer these days under different ownership?
If what you have said is correct and SBR will have a look for you, I think there is a decent chance of them reversing the decision, but if they don't and there's still that option, that might be something worth considering depending on how much this account is worth to you.

[Vyasports]

They cancelled all bets on the match, mine was cancelled anyway (pre match). Would love to see the Betfair in-play odds for this, that would probably clear up the issue.

thanks for clearing that up
it looks like pinn didn't generate any profits in that match... that's why they cancelled all bets

[WizoWizo]

If possible, maybe set up a 2nd pinnacle account via an agent or trusted friend, and when making big bets on a match, use the other account to make a small bet on the other player, too see if they actually void losing bets too. If not they are banged to rights.

I don’t think they will make such a blunder as not to cancel other small bets they(Pinnacle) won.
They saw that overall they lost much more on that match than they won, so they decided to cancel everyone’s bets to show as if their are fair and are cancelling even the bets that were lost. There is no other logical explanation. They are trying to artificially make the appearance that they are very fair and it doesn’t matter for them if the bet is won or lost.

[Brooklyn Dick]

Pinnacle has only gone one way since it was sold some years back, and that is DOWN...........

[WizoWizo]

Also, back in the day, if there was a dispute with them, they would give you the choice of getting paid on the bets but have your account closed. Is that still on offer these days under different ownership?
If what you have said is correct and SBR will have a look for you, I think there is a decent chance of them reversing the decision, but if they don't and there's still that option, that might be something worth considering depending on how much this account is worth to you.

I don't think that's an option now. At least, I haven't received such an offer, otherwise I would have agreed to take the money, as Pinnacle has lost all its trust and I don't intend to continue playing there anymore.

[jjgold]

Pinnacle has only gone one way since it was sold some years back, and that is DOWN...........

yes and juice widens yearly, so many sbr books have better lines now

[randomuser]

Is there anyone here that ever had problems with Pinnacle for big win? I mean even six digits win..
I can't believe a bookie like Pinnacle, considered to be the best bookie in the world, which probably manages millions and millions (or even billions) of dollars, is making way too much problems for few dollars (based on their wealth)..

[Brooklyn Dick]

Is there anyone here that ever had problems with Pinnacle for big win? I mean even six digits win..
I can't believe a bookie like Pinnacle, considered to be the best bookie in the world, which probably manages millions and millions (or even billions) of dollars, is making way too much problems for few dollars (based on their wealth)..

You are seriously overrating them. Example: Golf matchup European Tour 1,000 limit, but only with 6 hours to tee off. Other wise starts at 250. A joke.

[CanuckG]

Pinny limits have lowered across the board the last few years

[jazzmonkey]

Correct.

Had to email them for an explanation which I didn't like, if a bookmaker voids a bet then they should let you know about it and let you know why, shouldn't have to chase.

And Pinnacle is supposed to be an elite sportsbook ...
I hope you keep fighting and don't let them get away with this.

Jazzmonkey, I take it they cancelled your prematch bets after the match?

[jjgold]

Pinnacle does not have the volume like they use to therefore lower limits and wider margins

It is a book on a steady decline

[randomuser]

Pinny limits have lowered across the board the last few years

What's the reason why they've lowered their limits? what's wrong with their business model? Have they been hit hard by syndicates? If you are the best bookie in the world and your lines are the sharpest in the market why reducing the limits? I mean.. you can only improve!

[jazzmonkey]

There has been a lot of talk regarding Pinnacle not liking their odds getting "manipulated" in this manner (betting consecutively and pushing the line). The thing Opti said most likely is the case here - you have been caught in the net with some people that tend to push the lines in their own advantage but in a different way.

Their bots must have noticed the line getting changed and they picked up the pace with you, betting alongside. So actually someone else was following your bets and your lines movement and Pinnacle noticed that activity and decided to void it all. I am not defending them, but just trying to put my 2c and explain what might've happened.

Also, saying that everyone's bets were cancelled because of you is giving yourself a bit too much credit

Yeah I've been told off a few times by them about 'manipulation' which is daft if they had looked closely. Offering different limits to different users and as well as reducing lines more/less according to how sharp you are is always going to lead to some exploitation. Most of it is probably paranoia.

[WizoWizo]

Is there anyone here that ever had problems with Pinnacle for big win? I mean even six digits win..
I can't believe a bookie like Pinnacle, considered to be the best bookie in the world, which probably manages millions and millions (or even billions) of dollars, is making way too much problems for few dollars (based on their wealth)..

And yet here we are facing the reality where Pinnacle (management or just a few employees) decided to make too much problems for few dollars (like you said). Anyway, I have already described my whole situation, provided proofs, facts, detailed explanation, while Pinnacle didn't even try the slightest to provide an explanation other than "the bets were suspicious". Don't they have time to tell anything? I don't think so. Moreover, as they said in their email, situations like these happen rarely, which means they can spend more time on me for both investigating the case more thoroughly and giving a normal, logical and satisfying explanation. Well, I think that's the least I can expect, when my $73,000.00 is being taken.

[pologq]

Anybody here think if the guy lost it would have been cancelled as "Suspicious"?

nothing is ever suspicious or wrong when the bettor loses

[xKMACKx]

What's the reason why they've lowered their limits? what's wrong with their business model? Have they been hit hard by syndicates? If you are the best bookie in the world and your lines are the sharpest in the market why reducing the limits? I mean.. you can only improve!

New owners. That seems to be the time where things slowly regressed.

[Mugsy777]

Even in their best of times , I was never a fan of them

[vampire assassin]

What's the reason why they've lowered their limits? what's wrong with their business model? Have they been hit hard by syndicates? If you are the best bookie in the world and your lines are the sharpest in the market why reducing the limits? I mean.. you can only improve!

They went corporate about 5 years ago. They slashed salaries of their traders, and most of their talent fled. At one point they had maybe a dozen of the best MTG players in the world -- it was a new era back then. But they are gone, and in attempts to slash costs, Pinnacle gutted itself. They relied more and more on automation, which could be manipulated. Their best bread-winners weren't paid the market rate for being a stellar trader, and found better work elsewhere.

[WizoWizo]

They went corporate about 5 years ago. They slashed salaries of their traders, and most of their talent fled. At one point they had maybe a dozen of the best MTG players in the world -- it was a new era back then. But they are gone, and in attempts to slash costs, Pinnacle gutted itself. They relied more and more on automation, which could be manipulated. Their best bread-winners weren't paid the market rate for being a stellar trader, and found better work elsewhere.

I didn't know about that. I started playing at Pinnacle around 4-5 years ago, but to be honest, I didn't have a problem with them until now. Maybe something else was changed in the past year?

[randomuser]

Which bookmaker do you consider better than Pinnacle? Bookmaker.eu maybe? BetOnline?

[WizoWizo]

Which bookmaker do you consider better than Pinnacle? Bookmaker.eu maybe? BetOnline?

Well, until now I considered Pinnacle to be the best, and that's why I played there. I have account on neither Bookmaker.eu nor Betonline, so I can't tell anything about them.

[Atreyu666]

These kind of things happened in tennis match a lot of times, cancelling bets because suspicious activity is a common in tennis match and all books have done these kind of things, event in ATP tournaments it can happens, tennis is always under the radar for fraudulent activity.
The day pinnacle do these kind of things in serious sports where they dont fix matchs like it happens in tennis ( NBA, NFL, TOP FOOTBALL ) is the day i will start to worry and by the way i dont really understand the OP you lost around 200k and you still betting to the same player? are you rich and you dont care about money or wtf? i am very surprised no one question about this, you really have an addiction problem if after losing 200k in a year you bet another 30k in the same player, what a no sense, i really recommend to you to go to a psychologist who can help you with your addiction in betting.

[WizoWizo]

These kind of things happened in tennis match a lot of times, cancelling bets because suspicious activity is a common in tennis match and all books have done these kind of things, event in ATP tournaments it can happens, tennis is always under the radar for fraudulent activity.
The day pinnacle do these kind of things in serious sports where they dont fix matchs like it happens in tennis ( NBA, NFL, TOP FOOTBALL ) is the day i will start to worry and by the way i dont really understand the OP you lost around 200k and you still betting to the same player? are you rich and you dont care about money or wtf? i am very surprised no one question about this, you really have an addiction problem if after losing 200k in a year you bet another 30k in the same player, what a no sense, i really recommend to you to go to a psychologist who can help you with your addiction in betting.

Thank you for your reply. It's none of anyone's business whether I have addiction or not. I am losing as much, as I can afford myself to. I didn't lose $200K on the same player. I lost $68K on that player. From your reply it is clear to me, that you haven't even read all the replies or just didn't understand anything or even worse: maybe you are from Pinnacle, maybe the one who made the decision and you are trying to justify Pinnacle. If I am losing when I bet against someone, why shall I stop betting against him? Was that player supposed to win all his life? I explained already that I decided to bet against him until I win, I didn't think I was going to lose that much, though. Pinnacle suspects the game to be fixed just because of my bets, but my bets were always like that, and whenever I lost, Pinnacle didn't consider the match fixed. To avoid misunderstanding about the $200K: it's the total money I lost on all my bets together in the past year, not just on(against) that player.

[Atreyu666]

Thank you for your reply. It's none of anyone's business whether I have addiction or not. I am losing as much, as I can afford myself to. I didn't lose $200K on the same player. I lost $68K on that player. From your reply it is clear to me, that you haven't even read all the replies or just didn't understand anything or even worse: maybe you are from Pinnacle, maybe the one who made the decision and you are trying to justify Pinnacle. If I am losing when I bet against someone, why shall I stop betting against him? Was that player supposed to win all his life? I explained already that I decided to bet against him until I win, I didn't think I was going to lose that much, though. Pinnacle suspects the game to be fixed just because of my bets, but my bets were always like that, and whenever I lost, Pinnacle didn't consider the match fixed. To avoid misunderstanding about the $200K: it's the total money I lost on all my bets together in the past year, not just on(against) that player.

Well you post your history in a public forum, so , anyone can give you an opinion about what you are saying even if you like it or no, for me a person who lost 200k in a year and for what you wrote seems to lost even more during the years really have an addiction problem, so i really hope you can fix that problem, its more important than to recover 72k and by the way 72k is A LOT OF MONEY not just a "hundred of dollars" 80% of humans or even more dont see that money together in all their lifes.
I dont justify pinnacle and i am far away from pinnacle, i just say my opinion, i have seen a lot of weird things in tennis match always so i am not surprised that a tennis event can be voided because of this, as i said the day pinnacle do this in a very big event like NBA, TOP FOOTBALL, NFL then we can really be worried about pinnacle and about they are starting to change their policy.
Greetings and as i said, for my opinion you really have an addiction problem so i hope you can fix it somehow, its more important than whatever you lost or win.