Bets disappeared on Bookmaker and they refuse to provide an audit

vampire assassin · 08-13-20, 08:31 PM

You said keep meticulous records. Do you have an example of a missing bet (even without a ticket number) you could share with them?

pologq · 08-13-20, 08:48 PM

wow and it doesn't show voided in your records?

DontTailMe · 08-13-20, 09:41 PM

Always save screenshots. Wager numbers at the very least.

Barrakuda · 08-13-20, 11:01 PM

If I saved a screenshot of every wager, I'd have carpal tunnel and be sitting on a mound of hard drives, lol/

I know what you're saying, but I think at some point you trust the book for all but very large wagers.

hank_kingsley · 08-13-20, 11:05 PM

If you're keeping records but not screenshotting every single bet, you're not actually keeping meticulous records.

Even if you have the bet #s recorded, that won't do you any good unless you've also got the screenshots corresponding to them because the book can just deny that the bet #s even exist.

You're dealing with books that have very little oversight or accountability. You have to document every single dollar and every single bet if you want to cover your bases.

I know I've gotten lazy at times but just reading others stories of people getting shafted has made me document every transaction with screenshots. EVERY SINGLE ONE.

Barrakuda · 08-14-20, 03:36 AM

Do you know of a one keystroke screenshot app for a desktop PC?

Optional · 08-14-20, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by GoldenBears

I made a lot of bets across four sites on NBA teams to win their division.

Because the season was cut short, this put the books in a tough position. Betonline and Bovada took the generous position of paying out bets on teams that were leading their divisions, and canceling the bets of the teams that were behind.

Bookmaker has graded my clippers to win the division bet as a loss, which like whatever I think they should be canceled rather than graded but that's a different argument. However, I also placed bets on Houston and Miami to win their divisions on bookmaker, and those bets have totally disappeared - not graded and not in pending bets. I keep pretty meticulous records, and we are talking about multiple bets across multiple weeks, so it's not like I might have accidentally forgotten to press "submit" or something. Unfortunately, those

They said that they can't look anything up without a bet #, but I simply asked for an audit of my deposits/withdrawals/wagers since the beginning of the season - if I have that, it should be pretty easy to reconcile and see if the net of the wagering adds up to the net of the deposits and withdrawals, which I can triangulate independently.

Unfortunately, they are refusing to provide me with an audit of my own play which (a) seems insane and (b) seems shady as penetrate.

Are there any levers that I can pull to force them to show me an audit?

If you submit a Sportsbook Complaint form we can ask a manager to review this for you.

I can't recall anyone else ever claiming bets disappeared there before though...

EVPlus · 08-14-20, 08:12 AM

Bad break for the OP. His story rings true to me. I fear Bookmaker is gradually and inexorably declining.

I agree about taking screen shots on all your wagers (unless the amount is trivial to you).

For Windows,

1) Press and Hold the key with the Windows icon (should be towards bottom left corner of keyboard)

2) Press "Print Screen" key (it may also say "PrtSc")

3) Check the appropriate folder to see if it has been saved. The folder should say "Pictures" A subfolder called Screenshots should be there.

You can always delete it after your account has been credited (or save it until you cash out to be extra safe).

If you want the bet page to cover the ENTIRE screen, press F11 key first. Pressing F11 again will exit you out of full screen mode.

caramba · 08-14-20, 08:52 AM

What's their rule on NBA division bets? Everything should be voided or Clippers as losers and Heat, Rockets as winners?
Make a complaint with SBR, hopefully a manager looking into this will sort this for you. It's very strange that one bet was graded and the others disappeared. It's bad service in the first place that you can only see activity from 20 weeks back, but if needed you should definitely get access to older numbers. Hope this works out for you.

vampire assassin · 08-17-20, 09:32 AM

About 12 months ago, Bookmaker changed their accounting. If they delete/void a wager, it remains in your history as a voided wager. I don't believe they voided division win wagers, since the season was resumed. If you made the bet, it should be there somewhere.

GoldenBears · 08-17-20, 11:41 AM

Typically, I think the odds of bets disappearing is essentially zero, so I understand how outrageous of a claim this is. I think there is a SMALL chance that this actually happened because the division wagers were graded on a discretionary, ad-hoc basis so it's more plausible than zero but still unlikely.

But the frustrating thing is, it would be so easy to clear up with an audit of my wager, which they obviously have and are refusing to provide. In any other reasonable industry, the onus to provide the audit would be on the book, and they could very easily show you that you are mistaken.

And yes, I've learned that "meticulous records" should include screenshots, which is an insane burden to put on a player. I have records of the bets I made and the amounts, but I didn't save ticket #s. I checked every other book, and those books have better records, and these bets aren't there either - furthermore, bets identical to these have been graded, so it's unlikely they graded some, but not all, whereas on BM, the only bets I see graded for NBA divisions are losses.

If anybody else has heat or rockets division winning bets on BM that have been graded as winners, that would make me feel much better. (It would mean that I am crazy and somehow have multiple bets written down that I can't find any records for, but at least it means I'm probably not getting cheated).

Regardless of whether or not I am crazy, the refusal to provide oversight seems unusual. I suppose the only plausible reason is that they don't want players to know how much they are losing, which is a pretty unethical reason and also would fly in the face of all sorts of restrictions if they were actually regulated in the US (which they aren't).

GoldenBears · 08-17-20, 11:45 AM

Originally posted by caramba

What's their rule on NBA division bets? Everything should be voided or Clippers as losers and Heat, Rockets as winners?
Make a complaint with SBR, hopefully a manager looking into this will sort this for you. It's very strange that one bet was graded and the others disappeared. It's bad service in the first place that you can only see activity from 20 weeks back, but if needed you should definitely get access to older numbers. Hope this works out for you.

Betonline and Bovada graded these bets generously - teams that were ahead when the season got suspended were graded as winners, and teams that were behind were canceled. BM has graded my bets on teams that were behind as losers, and I assume graded bets on teams that were ahead as winners, but I don't see that.

I believe that the NBA is not officially declaring division winners this year. On all books, bets on "making the playoffs" or "winning the championship" are live while season win total bets are canceled (even if the team had already surpassed their total or could not surpass their total).

I believe it is logical to treat division champs more like season win totals and not like championship bets (where a champion is actually unarguably declared), but that reasoning has fallen on deaf ears.

GoldenBears · 08-17-20, 11:49 AM

FWIW I have had three or four disputes in the past with Betonline (funny wording on prop bets, etc.) and they always arrived at a fair and reasonable conclusion for me as a player, and in three or four disputes with BM I believe they have been unreasonable and unfair. just in case anybody is frustrated and looking for somewhere else to go.

SBR Forum · 08-17-20, 12:10 PM

Hi GoldenBears,

We are in touch with Bookmaker on this per the claim you filed. We should have more info soon.

DontTailMe · 08-17-20, 05:54 PM

Originally posted by GoldenBears

Typically, I think the odds of bets disappearing is essentially zero, so I understand how outrageous of a claim this is. I think there is a SMALL chance that this actually happened because the division wagers were graded on a discretionary, ad-hoc basis so it's more plausible than zero but still unlikely.

But the frustrating thing is, it would be so easy to clear up with an audit of my wager, which they obviously have and are refusing to provide. In any other reasonable industry, the onus to provide the audit would be on the book, and they could very easily show you that you are mistaken.

And yes, I've learned that "meticulous records" should include screenshots, which is an insane burden to put on a player. I have records of the bets I made and the amounts, but I didn't save ticket #s. I checked every other book, and those books have better records, and these bets aren't there either - furthermore, bets identical to these have been graded, so it's unlikely they graded some, but not all, whereas on BM, the only bets I see graded for NBA divisions are losses.

If anybody else has heat or rockets division winning bets on BM that have been graded as winners, that would make me feel much better. (It would mean that I am crazy and somehow have multiple bets written down that I can't find any records for, but at least it means I'm probably not getting cheated).

Regardless of whether or not I am crazy, the refusal to provide oversight seems unusual. I suppose the only plausible reason is that they don't want players to know how much they are losing, which is a pretty unethical reason and also would fly in the face of all sorts of restrictions if they were actually regulated in the US (which they aren't).

The odds of wagers disappearing aren't zero, but it is exceedingly rare. Most of the cases I've seen of wagers disappearing have to do with website software conversions, where some wager data never made it over to the new system (Bovada and BetDSI are recent examples of this). Another reason I've seen wagers disappear is because some sportsbooks have a way of voiding wagers which erases any trace that they ever existed.

Microphone · 08-17-20, 11:00 PM

I had less than 20 posts -225=winner

PD77 · 08-18-20, 11:43 AM

Originally posted by Microphone

I had less than 20 posts -225=winner

I think having an account here for 11 years means something, would you feel better if he had 400k useless posts like the forum idiot?

DontTailMe · 08-18-20, 03:32 PM

Originally posted by Microphone

I had less than 20 posts -225=winner

This act is really tiring.

NEWS FLASH: Many people don't see a need to post here until they have a problem.

Let's weigh each case on its merits and not on a silly, irrelevant statistic.

SBR Forum · 08-18-20, 05:08 PM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

Hi GoldenBears,

We are in touch with Bookmaker on this per the claim you filed. We should have more info soon.

Bookmaker reviewed the claim and found no wagers made on Miami to win SE or Houston to win SW. We were shown a screenshot of all wagers placed from the last eight months.

Regarding the ticket numbers that were settled that you wrote about, division bets were graded as normal by Bookmaker based on the NBA.com scoring.