Betfair closed my account (there was more than 32K EURO)

[pythonic]

To be fair they also wrote that the reason was breach of T&C, not simply that he was winning.
Betfair has many long term winners on the exchange. They usually collect the premium charge from them and that's it.
Still a very strange reply from them.

[AirSide_11]

This is a worrying trend.

I agree with Optional Airside that when they say business decision was the reason for closing your account it generally means you are a profitable player and they don't want your action. This shouldn't happen at an exchange, however.

Reading the terms there is a chance they are being very techincal but correct in their answers to you and you will still get your money back. Betfair keeps all player funds ina Trust to protect players money. When Betfair closes an account it is the Trust that still has your money and the Trust that will pay you back your money. Betfair may be tecnically correct in saying they will not pay you back your money as it is not their responsibility.

To clarify this with Betfair you must ask them if they have notified the Trust to withhold your funds for any reason and if so ask what that reason is. If they have not done this, the Trust must return your money to you. I do not know how to contact the Betfair Trust but it must be contactable.

Good luck, man. I really hope there is a good explanation to this.

a huge thanks for advice I will be try

[AirSide_11]

This is a worrying trend.

I agree with Optional Airside that when they say business decision was the reason for closing your account it generally means you are a profitable player and they don't want your action. This shouldn't happen at an exchange, however.

Reading the terms there is a chance they are being very techincal but correct in their answers to you and you will still get your money back. Betfair keeps all player funds ina Trust to protect players money. When Betfair closes an account it is the Trust that still has your money and the Trust that will pay you back your money. Betfair may be tecnically correct in saying they will not pay you back your money as it is not their responsibility.

To clarify this with Betfair you must ask them if they have notified the Trust to withhold your funds for any reason and if so ask what that reason is. If they have not done this, the Trust must return your money to you. I do not know how to contact the Betfair Trust but it must be contactable.

Good luck, man. I really hope there is a good explanation to this.

Unfortunately I could not find more information than you provided about "Betfair Trust". it was in 2011, and already in 2016 52% of the shares were bought by Paddy Power. I guess that the relevant department is not functioning now.

[lonnie55]

Betfair Trust = Betfair, isn't it?

1. The Sporting Exchange (Clients) Limited (Unternehmensnummer 03994762) mit eingetragenem Sitz in Waterfront, Hammersmith Embankment, Chancellors Road, Hammersmith, W6 9HP (der Treuhänder, ein Ausdruck, der den bzw. die jeweils amtierenden Treuhänder im Rahmen des vorliegenden Vertrages umfasst) und
2. Betfair-Limited (Unternehmensnummer 05140986) mit eingetragenem Sitz in Waterfront, Hammersmith Embankment, Chancellors Road, Hammersmith, W6 9HP (das Unternehmen)

https://www.betfair.com/aboutUs/Trust.Deed/

Same company, just another name

[Foxx]

You probably to need to file a complaint with MGA (Malta Gaming Authority).

[Winpro]

Is SBR administration doing something to clarify the situation? If so, please let us know.

[ichiro4thehall]

Unfortunately I could not find more information than you provided about "Betfair Trust". it was in 2011, and already in 2016 52% of the shares were bought by Paddy Power. I guess that the relevant department is not functioning now.

A Trust must have Trustees, actual people responsible for managing the Trust. I'd try and get contact info for them.

You can still ask Betfair if they have asked the Trust to withhold your funds. I suspect they will have.

This was a longshot suggestion that occurrred to me after reading the terms and given Betfair's very unusual responses to you. I did not mean to raise your hopes too much. Apologies if I did.

Please keep us updated on deveopments in your case. As a Betfair user I find it very troubling.

[lonnie55]

ichiro, you make it sound like the Trust would be an independent third-party organization but to me it looks more like the Trust is a department within the Betfair company

[littlekona]

does betfair exchange have different divisions with different ownership groups in different countries...Asking as I am wondering if the USA new jersey one tied in with TVG which will be prominent soon in USA is tied in here

[ichiro4thehall]

ichiro, you make it sound like the Trust would be an independent third-party organization but to me it looks more like the Trust is a department within the Betfair company

It is almost by definition supposed to be an independent third-party. I don't have complete confidence it is mind you.


The whole point of having a Trust for Betfair is for them to give confidence to customers that their money is segregated and always safe and can't be used to pay Betfair debts or be fraudulently used by a random executive on a spending spree etc.

I am not a lawyer and that Trust Deed does not list trustees but does provide a way for a customer to contact the trust. The two companies are supposed to be completely separate and I thought no employee could work for both. I think of it like a legally-defined Chinese Wall.

Lonnie, what's your thoughts on this situation? I assume you use Betfair.

[ichiro4thehall]

does betfair exchange have different divisions with different ownership groups in different countries...Asking as I am wondering if the USA new jersey one tied in with TVG which will be prominent soon in USA is tied in here

They will probably create a new subsiduary for practical, legal and risk exposure reasons like most companies do when opening new branches in different countries. The parent company will still be Betfair though.

[AirSide_11]

You probably to need to file a complaint with MGA (Malta Gaming Authority).

thank you for contacting the Malta Gaming Authority.

Please be informed that all B2C licensees are now required to make readily available to players the applicable procedures for referring a dispute to the operator’s appointed Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR).

The approved ADR provider for PPB Counterparty Services Limited (betfair.com) is IBAS.
Kindly direct your dispute to the appointed entity accordingly.

[ichiro4thehall]

thank you for contacting the Malta Gaming Authority.

Please be informed that all B2C licensees are now required to make readily available to players the applicable procedures for referring a dispute to the operator’s appointed Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR).

The approved ADR provider for PPB Counterparty Services Limited (betfair.com) is IBAS.
Kindly direct your dispute to the appointed entity accordingly.

The MGA is useless anyway. IBAS is better but it will take a long time to get a resolution.

I'd still try and contact Betfair and try to get a complete explanation for your case. It's hard with customer service reps sometimes but always be polite and keep calm. If you can clearly tell the person you are talking to is incompetent I find the best strategy is to hang up and call back and speak to a different operator. Good customer service people are hard to find but when you get through to one it helps so much. I'd try at least 5 differnt people.

Also, SBR is by far your best option for getting your money back. Fill out the complaint form and wait for them to contact you.

[AirSide_11]

The MGA is useless anyway. IBAS is better but it will take a long time to get a resolution.

I'd still try and contact Betfair and try to get a complete explanation for your case. It's hard with customer service reps sometimes but always be polite and keep calm. If you can clearly tell the person you are talking to is incompetent I find the best strategy is to hang up and call back and speak to a different operator. Good customer service people are hard to find but when you get through to one it helps so much. I'd try at least 5 differnt people.

Also, SBR is by far your best option for getting your money back. Fill out the complaint form and wait for them to contact you.

thank you a lot.
I did it just wait their answer

[lonnie55]

Lonnie, what's your thoughts on this situation?

See post #39

I think this Trust is more like a pseudo-Trust

I assume you use Betfair.

No, I'm a total noob when it comes to exchanges. The last time I used Betfair was 7 years ago when they booted German customers.

[piterp]

trust or not if betfair made decision will be difficult to get money back in normal way- now he must wait for ibas to get more details

[gamblehappier]

If you haven't done anything illegal,they will probably pay you.Send messages everywhere(betfair,mga,ibas).I hope sbr also help you.If the problem is not resolved,the only solution is a good lawyer.

[pythonic]

The whole point of having a Trust for Betfair is for them to give confidence to customers that their money is segregated and always safe and can't be used to pay Betfair debts or be fraudulently used by a random executive on a spending spree etc.

Exactly. That's what the trust entity is supposed to do.
But I doubt the trust would interfere with account closures or business decisions. In practice they will just be a legal construct somewhere within betfair/flutter holding the customer money which might be useful in the unlikely event that the parent company goes bankrupt.

[Poisec]

I got the impression that if you are British, you can win, even make a regular income from Betfair exchange, they'll leave you alone. If you are from Eastern Europe on the other hand, youll be in trouble soon or later... hope I'm wrong though.

[AirSide_11]

Update for the last 3 days:
On September 1, I receive a response from Betfair with the information that if I want to send a complaint to IBAS, I must confirm this in a reply letter (see photo 13)


My answer was given on September 1 at 19:39 (Moscow time).


On September 2, I opened a complaint in «Resolver»(it is an aggregator of complaints about providers) it will help to send a complaint to the right department (in my case is IBAS)


I also tried to write to Malta (MGA), but received renouncement (see photo 14):

«Please be informed that all B2C licensees are now required to make readily available to players the applicable procedures for referring a dispute to the operator’s appointed Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR).
The approved ADR provider for PPB Counterparty Services Limited (betfair.com) is IBAS.
Kindly direct your dispute to the appointed entity accordingly.»




As I found out, there is a chain of work with licensed casinos / bookmakers if they cheated you. It could help you:
1.Usual customers support
2.Higher managers, they usually have a separate email. In the case of Betfair - “Escalation Management Team”
3.Resolver and direct appeal to the appropriate ADR - in my case is IBAS
A list of ADR providers can be found at «gamblingcommission»
4.If ADR does not satisfy you, you have the rights :
-sue and get free legal consultation, you have to work with the lawyers of the country where is located the main office of the company. In my case it is England.
-make a complaint on ADR directly to "gamblingcommission" - there is a special form.
-make a complaint on ADR directly to Malta (MGA)




Immediately on the 2nd of September I sent to Betfair, particularly in «Escalation Management Team», a message from MGA and requested "deadlock". As I understood I should get a special form from them(betfair) in order to make a complaint to IBAS directly.
I got an answer some hours later(see photo 15)




At the time of writing the update, “deadlock” has not yet been received, although almost 3 days have passed since the first time sent the request.


I also called to the call center and tried get any new information about my case but nothing. The answer was the same like in email


Guys, give me advice and share your opinion about this situation.

[ichiro4thehall]

Update for the last 3 days:
On September 1, I receive a response from Betfair with the information that if I want to send a complaint to IBAS, I must confirm this in a reply letter (see photo 13)


My answer was given on September 1 at 19:39 (Moscow time).


On September 2, I opened a complaint in «Resolver»(it is an aggregator of complaints about providers) it will help to send a complaint to the right department (in my case is IBAS)


I also tried to write to Malta (MGA), but received renouncement (see photo 14):

«Please be informed that all B2C licensees are now required to make readily available to players the applicable procedures for referring a dispute to the operator’s appointed Alternative Dispute Resolution provider (ADR).
The approved ADR provider for PPB Counterparty Services Limited (betfair.com) is IBAS.
Kindly direct your dispute to the appointed entity accordingly.»




As I found out, there is a chain of work with licensed casinos / bookmakers if they cheated you. It could help you:
1.Usual customers support
2.Higher managers, they usually have a separate email. In the case of Betfair - “Escalation Management Team”
3.Resolver and direct appeal to the appropriate ADR - in my case is IBAS
A list of ADR providers can be found at «gamblingcommission»
4.If ADR does not satisfy you, you have the rights :
-sue and get free legal consultation, you have to work with the lawyers of the country where is located the main office of the company. In my case it is England.
-make a complaint on ADR directly to "gamblingcommission" - there is a special form.
-make a complaint on ADR directly to Malta (MGA)




Immediately on the 2nd of September I sent to Betfair, particularly in «Escalation Management Team», a message from MGA and requested "deadlock". As I understood I should get a special form from them(betfair) in order to make a complaint to IBAS directly.
I got an answer some hours later(see photo 15)




At the time of writing the update, “deadlock” has not yet been received, although almost 3 days have passed since the first time sent the request.


I also called to the call center and tried get any new information about my case but nothing. The answer was the same like in email


Guys, give me advice and share your opinion about this situation.

My strategy would be to find out the reason they closed my account. What exactly was the 'business decision'?

According to their terms they do not need to tell you, so that's why I would keep contacting different customer service people and hope to find a nice or more sympathetic agent who will tell you the reason. Once you know why they closed your account it makes it easier to fight them and prove they are incorrect or help more with your IBAS case.

Are any of those messages from the escalations management team? I would definitely try contacting them, they will be far more knowledgable. The message from 2/9/19 at 3:13 PM is encouraging as this department will have better staff, so you will either get your deadlock letter, or maybe even they reply back and explain a bit more.

Your message on 1/9/19 at 1:14 PM is not the way to communicate with them. These agents are mostly very low paid and not well trained to deal with complicated cases. Any time you criticse them, Betfair or make threats it just makes them stop wanting to help you and they give you automatic official answers.

You should definitely try IBAS but there is no need to tell Betfair about it. Telling them won't make them change their decision and pay you your money, it will only make them less helpful.

[AirSide_11]

My strategy would be to find out the reason they closed my account. What exactly was the 'business decision'?

According to their terms they do not need to tell you, so that's why I would keep contacting different customer service people and hope to find a nice or more sympathetic agent who will tell you the reason. Once you know why they closed your account it makes it easier to fight them and prove they are incorrect or help more with your IBAS case.

Are any of those messages from the escalations management team? I would definitely try contacting them, they will be far more knowledgable. The message from 2/9/19 at 3:13 PM is encouraging as this department will have better staff, so you will either get your deadlock letter, or maybe even they reply back and explain a bit more.

Your message on 1/9/19 at 1:14 PM is not the way to communicate with them. These agents are mostly very low paid and not well trained to deal with complicated cases. Any time you criticse them, Betfair or make threats it just makes them stop wanting to help you and they give you automatic official answers.

You should definitely try IBAS but there is no need to tell Betfair about it. Telling them won't make them change their decision and pay you your money, it will only make them less helpful.

but how to connect with "different customer service people" directly ?if I will be try to connect with them by email it will be the same answer, like "we reserve the right not to explain the reason for closing your account"

[Foxx]

but how to connect with "different customer service people" directly ?if I will be try to connect with them by email it will be the same answer, like "we reserve the right not to explain the reason for closing your account"

At this point, I would just forget communicating with BF. Just start the IBAS process and hope for the best.

Good luck.

[littlekona]

the one good thing about licensed legal USA gambling since its run by each state is I can walk into or call the gambling commission/racing board with any issue and its addressed and questions answered... This crap that they pull overseas is nuts!

[ichiro4thehall]

but how to connect with "different customer service people" directly ?if I will be try to connect with them by email it will be the same answer, like "we reserve the right not to explain the reason for closing your account"

Online chat is the best or a phone call. If you have a phone number it will be to a call centre with many workers so if someone is unhelpful, just say thanks and goodbye and hang up and dial the same number again. You will probably speak to a different person this time, ifit's the same person who says Hi, just hang up and try again. And do it 9 hours apart again so there is a new shift of people to try.


Treat it like chatting up a girl. You want to charm them so they like you. It's just social engineering, if you are really nice to someone they will be nice in return AND try and help you.

A few key things are:
1. Always say the person's name in each response.
2. The start of the call is super important. Do not start immediately telling them your problem, try and start a conversation. The people who will chat for a minute or two first are usually the ones who will be most helpful.
3. When you tell them your problem try and sound a bit naive and stupid. And don't tell them any history of you contacting other Betfair agents previously.

[littlekona]

Online chat is the best or a phone call. If you have a phone number it will be to a call centre with many workers so if someone is unhelpful, just say thanks and goodbye and hang up and dial the same number again. You will probably speak to a different person this time, ifit's the same person who says Hi, just hang up and try again. And do it 9 hours apart again so there is a new shift of people to try.




Treat it like chatting up a girl. You want to charm them so they like you. It's just social engineering, if you are really nice to someone they will be nice in return AND try and help you.

A few key things are:
1. Always say the person's name in each response.
2. The start of the call is super important. Do not start immediately telling them your problem, try and start a conversation. The people who will chat for a minute or two first are usually the ones who will be most helpful.
3. When you tell them your problem try and sound a bit naive and stupid. And don't tell them any history of you contacting other Betfair agents previously.

great post and pointers. Being nice and asking for help goes a long way esp when its a serious issue as this

[piterp]

You people simple not understand how it works-You cant force betfair to talk if they dont want even with 100 social engineering tricks
Only official way can help in this case first step is IBAS

[AirSide_11]

The story ended positively. Betfair opened the account. Thank you all for making this case public.

[dealer wins]

Great news, but very worrying that Betfair can seize big accounts just like that, and in error as your case shows. Imagine if you had not persisted with this all over the forums.

I class Betfair as rogue these days, hate using them (necessary evil) and keep the absolute minimum amount in there that I need.

[ichiro4thehall]

Congrats Airside.

This thread highlights a growing problem in all sportsbooks.

The sportsbooks security software highlights a possible suspicious account and either locks the account automatically or a low level employee looks at the issue then locks the account to be on the safe side as they don't understand the issue.

Only when the complaint reaches a higher level and the eyes of a competent employee does anything change. It is a staff training issue for sportsbooks.

[AndreyPL]

I can’t send a private message to you, Alex. Could you contact me? I need your help. Thanks.
[QUOTE = AirSide_11; 28888492] История закончилась позитивно. Betfair открыл счет. Спасибо всем за то, что обнародовали это дело. [/ QUOTE]

[Vyasports]

AndreyPL
I dnt think OP will check this post
try creating a new thread

[AndreyPL]

I have already created a new thread, but I need to contact Alex. Could you write him a personal message asking him to contact me? Thanks.

[Vyasports]

I have already created a new thread, but I need to contact Alex. Could you write him a personal message asking him to contact me? Thanks.

Done.

[moojoo]

He is not soming to forum since this was resolved. Shame guys come here cry community helps them and they stop coming by.