Orbitx/Betfair misgraded Race ticke Lone Star race 4 June 22

[Foosball Champ]

Graded my wager as a loser was a winner dead heat.

[michael777]

happens a lot with horse bets offshore,they are clueless when it comes to racing

[littlekona]

its an orbitx thing.... its happened to me at least 10 times wins places show doesn't matter also in USA with entries 1 and 1A in usa pools i have had mine win and it be graded a loss....I really think its inentional as no way betfair does...I also always have to show proof I m like WTF you cant look at official results

[Foosball Champ]

kona- did orbitx end up correcting the mistake?

[PunterLog]

This is the norm on Orbitx. Contact your Brokerage provider and give them the details of the bet. They'll manually credit your account.

[littlekona]

kona- did orbitx end up correcting the mistake?

Yea they have corrected everytime but few times esp w usa tracks its taken over 24 hours and burden is on us to prove which makes no sence since they can just look at official results

[littlekona]

Also have to watch them for non credits of odds reduction when laying when late withdrawal esp in usa races like today Belmont race 6 gate scratch of #2 horse....i have to prove to them late scratch...

[Foosball Champ]

i got 231.25 returned from my original wager of 250

[Optional]

maybe you still lose commission for the dead heat payout?

[littlekona]

maybe you still lose commission for the dead heat payout?

While back you posted the dead heat calculation betfair and in most cases you lose a bit

[Optional]

While back you posted the dead heat calculation betfair and in most cases you lose a bit

Not sure why, but I was thinking he was talking about Fairlay when I posted.

[littlekona]

i got 231.25 returned from my original wager of 250

How long it takem to fix

[littlekona]

So on mine they say this which makes no sense and i believe is incorrect...if anyone has input please

Reduction factor only apply for Lay (Losing ticket ) Instead of Lay (Winning ticket)."

[Foosball Champ]

i am though a broker. AC88 so i can't contact orbitx directly to get an explanation

[Foosball Champ]

this is the explanation that was give to me by the broker

your horse won but still declares lost because of the dead heat that's why it was credit back only for 231.25 to your account

[Optional]

Here is how Betfair calculate dead heats. It will be the same for OrbitX

For win markets with two runners tied:
[(Stake / 2) x (Odds - 1)] - (Stake / 2) = your profit/loss

Another easy way to understand the calculations of a Dead Heat is to compare your possibilities of the outcomes: A Dead Heat outcome between two runners will be in the middle of your best and your worst case scenario.

The above calculations are exactly the same for backers and for layers. If you have a lay bet, work the settlement out using the backer’s stake as you would do for the backer and then remember one simple golden rule:
Whatever the backer wins, the layer loses and whatever the backer loses, the layer wins.

Industry Standard
Our Dead Heat rule gives the same payout as if a customer were to bet in a betting shop or online with a traditional bookmaker. The reason that some backers feel this is not the case is because they forget that in a betting shop, they hand their stake over the counter and the amount returned includes the winning half of the stake. On Betfair, they have not paid the losing half of the stake to the layer up front so their profit / loss shown on the statement needs to reflect this.

Example 1 (Back Bet - win market - Dead Heat by two runners):
You backed the horse ‘Red Rum’ with £10 at the price of 4.0. ‘Red Rum’ dead heats for first place:
(Stake / 2) x (Odds - 1) - (Stake / 2) = your profit/loss
(£10 / 2) x (4.0 - 1) - (£10 / 2) = £10 profit

[littlekona]

Thats a great post explanation makes sense though very different rule vs pari mutal pool....question optional. when u lay horse and there is late withdrawal after your wager matched shouldn't you get odds reduction credit even w win ticket? I could swear that ive gotten the credit before yet this time they say since i won bet no

[Optional]

Thats a great post explanation makes sense though very different rule vs pari mutal pool....question optional. when u lay horse and there is late withdrawal after your wager matched shouldn't you get odds reduction credit even w win ticket? I could swear that ive gotten the credit before yet this time they say since i won bet no

Honestly Kona, you are way more knowledgeable about racing stuff than me. But off top of my head, yes I would have thought same as you. If you Layed the winner then your liability should have been less than when you made the bet.

Maybe the scratched runner was a long shot big enough to not have a reduction factor?

Again, you would know this better than me, but on Betfair I'm not sure you get a credit in your account, just the odds are shown as changed in your history. (although that sounds wrong now I've typed it)

[Optional]

Sounds straight forward to me, and as we understand it I think;

https://en-betfair.custhelp.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/408/~/exchange%3A-in-a-horse-race%2C-how-will-non-runners-be-treated%3F

[Optional]

i am though a broker. AC88 so i can't contact orbitx directly to get an explanation

You can actually speak to OrbitX direct if you like

info@orbitexch.com




On a side note, anyone know what the difference is between orbitxch.com and orbitexch.com

A player tells me that the site on the orbitsxch.com domain often does not work properly when orbitxch.com does. Any truth in that can anyone using them confirm?

[Optional]

So on mine they say this which makes no sense and i believe is incorrect...if anyone has input please

Reduction factor only apply for Lay (Losing ticket ) Instead of Lay (Winning ticket)."

LOL, that's a bit of a confusing sentence.

Are they trying to say if your Lay Bet is a Winner (horse loses) then it's the backer that gets the benefit of the reduction instead of you?

[Foxx]

LOL, that's a bit of a confusing sentence.
Are they trying to say if your Lay Bet is a Winner (horse loses) then it's the backer that gets the benefit of the reduction instead of you?

I think they are just saying a reduction factor won't impact a lay bet that is a winner (horse loses) because the stake isn't impacted by a reduction factor and a winning lay bet receives the stake. The reduction factor only comes into play on a losing lay bet as it impacts the liability side of the bet. The stake doesn't change as a result of a reduction factor, only the liability. It is a bit confusing though.

[Optional]

I think they are just saying a reduction factor won't impact a lay bet that is a winner (horse loses) because the stake isn't impacted by a reduction factor and a winning lay bet receives the stake. The reduction factor only comes into play on a losing lay bet as it impacts the liability side of the bet. The stake doesn't change as a result of a reduction factor, only the liability. It is a bit confusing though.

That is clearer.

But the book is telling Kona that his losing lay bet (on the race winning horse) does not get a reduction for the scratching.

Does that sound correct/incorrect of them to you Foxx?

Sounds wrong to me.

[littlekona]

LOL, that's a bit of a confusing sentence.

Are they trying to say if your Lay Bet is a Winner (horse loses) then it's the backer that gets the benefit of the reduction instead of you?

Sorry, yes thats what they say see response

We have received a response our Upline, they have confirmed with their related department for Reduction only apply for who bet on Layer (Losing ticket ) instead of Layer (Winning ticket).
According the above statement, the rules in Betfair only applicable for Layer and Lose bet. The decision is final

[Foxx]

That is clearer.
But the book is telling Kona that his losing lay bet (on the race winning horse) does not get a reduction for the scratching.
Does that sound correct/incorrect of them to you Foxx?
Sounds wrong to me.

That would definitely be wrong. Not only wrong, it would be preposterous. It would be an abomination. I have a feeling there is a miscommunication here though stemming from the confusing semantics. A reduction factor does not affect the settlement of winning lay tickets and losing back tickets. It should only affect the settlement of losing lay tickets and winning back tickets. If the player has a beef with the settlement of an actual wager and not just a hypothetical inquiry made upline, perhaps presenting the details may help clear things up.

[littlekona]

That would definitely be wrong. Not only wrong, it would be preposterous. It would be an abomination. I have a feeling there is a miscommunication here though stemming from the confusing semantics. A reduction factor does not affect the settlement of winning lay tickets and losing back tickets. It should only affect the settlement of losing lay tickets and winning back tickets. If the player has a beef with the settlement of an actual wager and not just a hypothetical inquiry made upline, perhaps presenting the details may help clear things up.

They fixed it now adjusted final odds by 7.59% .....it was a lay bet with a gate scratch leaving field of 4 horses...horse lost(I won since lay) and rightfully the odds where reduced and credited....

[COLOR=#D0021B !important]7.59% [/COLOR]

[jw]

They fixed it now .....

Hey @littlekona, I had a similar issue tonight, first past the post was graded as winner, despite an ongoing inquiry. Official result was amended, but Orbitx result was not. Someone there seems to have a trigger finger, not the first time i've seen grading happen pre-"official" being called ...

Have flagged up with odsy88 who are passing it up the line to be looked at, do you know how long the review process generally takes ?

Thanks

[littlekona]

Hey @littlekona, I had a similar issue tonight, first past the post was graded as winner, despite an ongoing inquiry. Official result was amended, but Orbitx result was not. Someone there seems to have a trigger finger, not the first time i've seen grading happen pre-"official" being called ...

Have flagged up with odsy88 who are passing it up the line to be looked at, do you know how long the review process generally takes ?

Thanks

Mine normally take a few days and sometimes multiple emails sending them proof but its always been corrected...many times on re grades of inquiries it automatically corrects after a bit...the dead heats i always have to contact support for USA tracks...UK tracks seem to be watched over better

[jw]

Mine normally take a few days and sometimes multiple emails sending them proof but its always been corrected...many times on re grades of inquiries it automatically corrects after a bit...the dead heats i always have to contact support for USA tracks...UK tracks seem to be watched over better

11 hours after asking for review, the money is in my account. Another positive for oddsy and Orbitx. I just had to provide betid no proof requested.

[Foxx]

They fixed it now adjusted final odds by 7.59% .....it was a lay bet with a gate scratch leaving field of 4 horses...horse lost(I won since lay) and rightfully the odds where reduced and credited....

[COLOR=#D0021B !important]7.59% [/COLOR]

Whether they adjusted the odds or not, you should receive the same amount though since the horse lost. The odds would only come into play if the horse won. Right?

Say you staked $100 at 3.0 odds, your liability would be $200 if the horse wins. If they reduce the odds by 7.59%, you are now staking $100 at 2.77 odds and your liability is $177 if the horse wins. If the horse loses, you receive $100 whether they odds are 3.0 or 2.77. The odds reduction affects the liability not the stake, and the liability only really matters if the horse wins.

[littlekona]

Whether they adjusted the odds or not, you should receive the same amount though since the horse lost. The odds would only come into play if the horse won. Right?

Say you staked $100 at 3.0 odds, your liability would be $200 if the horse wins. If they reduce the odds by 7.59%, you are now staking $100 at 2.77 odds and your liability is $177 if the horse wins. If the horse loses, you receive $100 whether they odds are 3.0 or 2.77. The odds reduction affects the liability not the stake, and the liability only really matters if the horse wins.

yes your correct.

[Optional]

11 hours after asking for review, the money is in my account. Another positive for oddsy and Orbitx. I just had to provide betid no proof requested.

Thanks for letting the thread know the outcome