Most you've lost from a bookmaker going bust or stealing funds

[Dirty Butcher]

What's the most you've lost from a bookmaker going bust or just simply stealing from your balance?

[Dirty Butcher]

What's the maximum you would trust a bookmaker/broker with in your account? For bookmakers where funds are not fully protected, there is a risk of your full balance being wiped out

[Dirty Butcher]

Would you really trust them with more than 10% of your total betting funds? Will crush your returns if this occurs

[Foxx]

10k from ESB back in the day. Might have stranded some at WSEX but I think I got it out. Got a major slowpay from BetRoyal a decade or so ago but got paid.

[michael777]

a little over $40,000 from BETUS 13 years ago,penetrating CROOKS!!!!

[RonPaul2008]

Cascade stopped paying everyone and kept about 33Kof mine in 2008.
The crooks still have a the website: https://www.betcascade.com

F*ck you Lenny!

[ArunSh]

Cascade stopped paying everyone and kept about 33Kof mine in 2008.
The crooks still have a the website: https://www.betcascade.com

F*ck you Lenny!

Still haunts me to this day, lost 15k or so in that scam myself. I was very naive at the time - didn't know much about the business, assumed my funds were always going to be "completely safe" like a US bank account or a major online poker site (though as we saw with Full Tilt, that turned out not to be the case either!). Was an expensive lesson to learn, though easy to say I should have been more cautious in retrospect - very easy to play could have/should have with such a volatile industry.

Perhaps I'm lucky in that being the only time I got burned. I managed to avoid the BetIslands fiasco since I played with them earlier than most people on SBR did so got my funds out quite a bit before they went belly up.

[eaglesfan371]

Never keep more than $5k on a non A rated book imo, if you're try doing huge parlays or big shots stick to A rated books

Biggest I lost was 5 bitcoin, back when bitcoin was $100/btc in 2013, it was wild west gambling. Book had offered 100% cash bonus 5x rollover. They disappeared a week later having been in biz for roughly 3-4 months no issue on bitcointalk forum.

Lot of no name bitcoin book and casinos. Kid you not there was a book that you would send your bitcoin to a bitcoin address to bet, he made new addresses for each side, end of night he would send your winnings back to you. Max 10 bitcoin wagers. He was the first bitcoin "bookie". Was in like 2013 I believe. Bitcoin was $25-$50 then.

[Krashman]

$1612.86 USD in the Canbet fraud / closure.

[TheGuesser]

Little over $12,000 from WSEX. Was attempting to get money out for years before they went belly up, and got some in dribs and drabs every few months, but that was my final loss figure.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

5500 euros with goldvictory (about $7k back then iirc)

Probably lucky that was my worst, I've had tons of money in some absolutely shit-hole books not long before they go belly up. Had around $50k in one, was arbing my way through bonuses and ended with the money elsewhere - soon afterwards they died.

[lonnie55]

For bookmakers where funds are not fully protected, there is a risk of your full balance being wiped out

a book where funds are "fully protected" does not exist

[treetop2020]

Mybookie.ag scam me more than $18,000

I been playing with mybookie for than 1 year already and now i finally won from them. I try to withdraw and they keep on declining my payout for the passed 9th times already.. I spoke with Serlyn, Seeka 3/7/19, Rick, Daril 3/15, Seray, Alice 3/18, Marshall 3/21, Erin, Butch 4/2, Erin 4/3 and Erin and Jacob 4/9/19.. All this people that i spoke with told me that my account is under review and RYAN ANDERSON is going to call and resolved the problems.. Its been almost 2 MONTHS and still no one call me.. MYBOOKIE just scammed me more than $18,000.. BEWARE THIS BOOK IS A FUCKEN CROOKED...

[Dirty Butcher]

that sounds like a good strategy, I guess the amount should also depend on how much you betting capital is too. If youve only got $10k to bet with $1k is prob the max you should be putting in these sketchy books if any at all

Never keep more than $5k on a non A rated book imo, if you're try doing huge parlays or big shots stick to A rated books

Biggest I lost was 5 bitcoin, back when bitcoin was $100/btc in 2013, it was wild west gambling. Book had offered 100% cash bonus 5x rollover. They disappeared a week later having been in biz for roughly 3-4 months no issue on bitcointalk forum.

Lot of no name bitcoin book and casinos. Kid you not there was a book that you would send your bitcoin to a bitcoin address to bet, he made new addresses for each side, end of night he would send your winnings back to you. Max 10 bitcoin wagers. He was the first bitcoin "bookie". Was in like 2013 I believe. Bitcoin was $25-$50 then.

[Dirty Butcher]

a book where funds are "fully protected" does not exist

In the UK there are some books where your funds are essentially fully protected, those companies that have a 'high' level of protection "Customers’ money is held in an account which is legally and in practice separate from the rest of the company. This account is controlled by an independent person or external auditor."

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.u...mer-funds.aspx

[Dirty Butcher]

5500 euros with goldvictory (about $7k back then iirc)

Probably lucky that was my worst, I've had tons of money in some absolutely shit-hole books not long before they go belly up. Had around $50k in one, was arbing my way through bonuses and ended with the money elsewhere - soon afterwards they died.

Damn but why would you put so much in these accounts knowing there's a risk you'll lose everything? I don't know how much you're making from arbing but a $50k loss would at the least make a massive dent in your annual overall return. Putting that much is surely not worth the risk

[Dirty Butcher]

Still haunts me to this day, lost 15k or so in that scam myself. I was very naive at the time - didn't know much about the business, assumed my funds were always going to be "completely safe" like a US bank account or a major online poker site (though as we saw with Full Tilt, that turned out not to be the case either!). Was an expensive lesson to learn, though easy to say I should have been more cautious in retrospect - very easy to play could have/should have with such a volatile industry.
Perhaps I'm lucky in that being the only time I got burned. I managed to avoid the BetIslands fiasco since I played with them earlier than most people on SBR did so got my funds out quite a bit before they went belly up.

It's unbelievable that they can get away with this. Do you still have balances of this amount in dodgy betting sites like these? What do you do now to protect against these kind of disasters?

[lonnie55]

In the UK there are some books where your funds are essentially fully protected, those companies that have a 'high' level of protection "Customers’ money is held in an account which is legally and in practice separate from the rest of the company. This account is controlled by an independent person or external auditor."

https://www.gamblingcommission.gov.u...mer-funds.aspx

A legal deposit insurance is useless if every customer tries to withdraw his funds during a bank run because banks only have an equity ratio of 1-3%. Same with books. There is no such thing as "fully protected funds", not even at banks, no matter what authorities try to make us believe.

[Dirty Butcher]

A legal deposit insurance is useless if every customer tries to withdraw his funds during a bank run because banks only have an equity ratio of 1-3%. Same with books. There is no such thing as "fully protected funds", not even at banks, no matter what authorities try to make us believe.

Agreed with your point on a bank run, however in the UK funds are government protected up to 80k so even though the bank won't cover all your funds the gov will and you'll get your £ back. Good point re the betting companies however if customer funds are all held in a separate account, surely this means all the deposits and you will get your money back?

[lonnie55]

Agreed with your point on a bank run, however in the UK funds are government protected up to 80k so even though the bank won't cover all your funds the gov will and you'll get your £ back. Good point re the betting companies however if customer funds are all held in a separate account, surely this means all the deposits and you will get your money back?

In Germany bank funds are government protected up to 100K but it doesn't mean they are 100% safe. During the financial crisis in 2008 Chancellor Merkel said to the people "your money is safe" but later it turned out that was a lie and she only said it to calm down people and prevent them to withdraw all of their money. If a big bank run happens, even the government can't protect your funds. They would have to start printing money which would lead to a hyper inflation.

I agree with you, the funds might be very well protected but a 100% protection is not possible.

[Dirty Butcher]

In Germany bank funds are government protected up to 100K but it doesn't mean they are 100% safe. During the financial crisis in 2008 Chancellor Merkel said to the people "your money is safe" but later it turned out that was a lie and she only said it to calm down people and prevent them to withdraw all of their money. If a big bank run happens, even the government can't protect your funds. They would have to start printing money which would lead to a hyper inflation.
I agree with you, the funds might be very well protected but a 100% protection is not possible.

Point taken, I agree with you. The guarantee statement on bank deposits is only there in order to create stability and to avoid bank runs from happening in the first place. Whether they can actually fulfil this in the event that a bank run still takes place is another story

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Damn but why would you put so much in these accounts knowing there's a risk you'll lose everything? I don't know how much you're making from arbing but a $50k loss would at the least make a massive dent in your annual overall return. Putting that much is surely not worth the risk

It's a fair point :-) Nowadays I never would - this was about 10 years ago, back when bonuses were plentiful and books were much less quick to boot. I don't arb/bonuswhore at all now.

With goldvictory there wasn't much "loss", a lot of repeat bonuses there multiplied an initial small stake, so it didn't sting too much.

The other one iirc was handing out $250 bonuses like confetti, and I got a ton of referral action also. Ended up hearing they were in trouble, and with some ludicrous rollover to do, just hammering through 2k/5k bets.

[ManosdePiedra]

Cascade stopped paying everyone and kept about 33Kof mine in 2008.
The crooks still have a the website: https://www.betcascade.com

F*ck you Lenny!

ditto

[Dirty Butcher]

It's a fair point :-) Nowadays I never would - this was about 10 years ago, back when bonuses were plentiful and books were much less quick to boot. I don't arb/bonuswhore at all now.

With goldvictory there wasn't much "loss", a lot of repeat bonuses there multiplied an initial small stake, so it didn't sting too much.

The other one iirc was handing out $250 bonuses like confetti, and I got a ton of referral action also. Ended up hearing they were in trouble, and with some ludicrous rollover to do, just hammering through 2k/5k bets.

Why have you stopped arbing? Fewer opportunities now? Something better that you do now instead?

Ah at least that was the case but still....$50k

[Dirty Butcher]

Are the identities of these scam book owners ever revealed? Seems like they all hide behind complex structures and regulate themselves in Curacao, creating an excellent scamming opportunity in which their identities are not / cannot be revealed

[DukeSnider]

you guys lost thousands from these sleezy SBs and my 2bit SB uswager.365.net wouldn't pay me a lousy 2K...
Tony you are a true scumbag !

[Ruifgalmeida]

Fortunately never lost any money on bookie fraud, I always investigated well before I deposit, as rule I never let more that 10% of my bankroll on any book, B or C books never let more that 4 or 5%, I am conservative and I could live with this numbers.

[Dirty Butcher]

Fortunately never lost any money on bookie fraud, I always investigated well before I deposit, as rule I never let more that 10% of my bankroll on any book, B or C books never let more that 4 or 5%, I am conservative and I could live with this numbers.

That sounds like a good way of managing the risk. Would be great if some insurance products existed to hedge this risk out entirely

[Barrakuda]

A legal deposit insurance is useless if every customer tries to withdraw his funds during a bank run because banks only have an equity ratio of 1-3%. Same with books. There is no such thing as "fully protected funds", not even at banks, no matter what authorities try to make us believe.

A better comparison would be a stock brokerage firm, which is required by law to keep customer funds segregated. Regular banks are basically paying you for the right to borrow your capital, which is a much different proposition.

[lonnie55]

A better comparison would be a stock brokerage firm, which is required by law to keep customer funds segregated. Regular banks are basically paying you for the right to borrow your capital, which is a much different proposition.

I just wanted to point out that there is no such thing as fully protected funds, not even at banks where everybody expects his money to be safe.

[HeeeHAWWWW]

Why have you stopped arbing? Fewer opportunities now? Something better that you do now instead?

I moved over to more traditional betting, via machine learning approaches.

[cashin81]

188bet just stopped uk customers... Ive got £4.80, dont think i can request a 4.80 withdrawal.

im gonna miss it. it had potential to be 200.

[Dirty Butcher]

A better comparison would be a stock brokerage firm, which is required by law to keep customer funds segregated. Regular banks are basically paying you for the right to borrow your capital, which is a much different proposition.

Yeah pretty much the same proposition

[Dirty Butcher]

I moved over to more traditional betting, via machine learning approaches.

Very interesting, are algorithms running everything for you, or are you using machine learning to identify the opportunities and then place the bets yourself?

[Dirty Butcher]

188bet just stopped uk customers... Ive got £4.80, dont think i can request a 4.80 withdrawal.

im gonna miss it. it had potential to be 200.

One of the few books with high limits in the uk