Can someone clarify this soccer wager to me?

[Sobob99]

What was the +2.5 line at 5dimes?

The +3 line at 5dimes was -417 for AH. So if you got -200 there was no push. You basically bet a +2.5 line disguised as a +3 with no push.

[JayLA]

if it's anything like bet365 cause they also name their Alternative European Handicaps just "Alternative Handicaps", then that looks like a European handicap where draws lose.

Asian handicaps usually have "Asian" in the name and have worse odds because draws push.

-200 for +3 seems like a European handicap price for a underdog like panama was. You could look at uruguay saudi arabia for similar odds.

[GT21Megatron]

You played the alternate handicap....Says it on your slip

[ChuckyTheGoat]

I haven't read all the posts, but I'll say this. I HAVE seen this b4. Handicap line that looks too good to be true.

When u read the fine-print, you find out that you're really betting +2.5. It's a way for books to hide the juice. Not saying it's right, but I've seen it b4.

[cincinnatikid513]

sounds like a nice hustle by the books basically a +2.5 line but +3 looks alot better to suckers thinking they get a push on a 3 goal loss

[pavyracer]

What was the +2.5 line at 5dimes?

http://www.oddsportal.com/soccer/world/world-cup-2018/belgium-panama-bLqc5LlM/#ah;2;-2.50;0

[Sobob99]

I understand that, it wasn't the main line, but no where does it say at 3-0 this will result in a loss. My mind is blown. If I take Panama +3, how is that not a push in any situation in any part of the world?

You played the alternate handicap....Says it on your slip

[Sobob99]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dbZ20nPR6Yi1ZOmpZCyZOyGF4U8SOB36

Take a look at the options for today's game. There is no "Draw (Japan +3)" option listed, and there is an option for "Japan +3". So if the score is Colombia 3-0, I'd assume Japan +3 is a push, because the draw option was not provided. Can someone clarify this?

[JayLA]

I see these options on intertops

29.00
13.00
1.07
1.35
6.50
4.50
9.00
17.00
13.00
6.50
1.02

[Sobob99]

I still think Panama +3 should be a push, because that literally means add 3 goals to Panama. And if there had been an option for "Draw Panama+3", that should be graded as a win. But that option wasn't there, which makes me wonder, were all off the options graded as losses? Intertops customer service would not tell me which wager was graded as a win.

[semibluff]

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1db...yZOyGF4U8SOB36

Take a look at the options for today's game. There is no "Draw (Japan +3)" option listed, and there is an option for "Japan +3". So if the score is Colombia 3-0, I'd assume Japan +3 is a push, because the draw option was not provided. Can someone clarify this?

There is a "Draw Japan +3". It's written as "Draw Columbia -3" but it's exactly the same thing. I wouldn't expect it to be listed both ways or elongated into "Draw Japan +3 and/or Columbia -3".

Their top line of "Columbia +1" -714, "Draw Japan -1" +550, "Japan -1" +1200 works out to a betting line of 110.7919%. A lot of books work to a much tighter % on soccer. Most books work to around 104.5% on a normal 3-way 1-2-X outcome. If I were you I would shop around for better odds.

[stackz125]

The +3 line at 5dimes was -417 for AH. So if you got -200 there was no push. You basically bet a +2.5 line disguised as a +3 with no push.

That shouldnt matter. The bet slip clearly states +3 not +2.5...

[krk1030]

I made the same mistake, took tunisia +1 and thought i pushed, but i guess there was an option for the draw so it was graded correctly.

[Alfa1234]

That shouldnt matter. The bet slip clearly states +3 not +2.5...

https://gyazo.com/dc4630c170bb139f306ba85f5a70dd1c

See the difference. There is no push in European handicaps. The draw is an option at Intertops. You would have won if you had selected "draw (Panama +3)" or Panama +4 etc. Your Panama +3 is a loss. It would have been a push if it was an Asian Handicap.

Read up on "difference between Asian handicap and European handicap".

[unde0087]

I still think Panama +3 should be a push, because that literally means add 3 goals to Panama. And if there had been an option for "Draw Panama+3", that should be graded as a win. But that option wasn't there, which makes me wonder, were all off the options graded as losses? Intertops customer service would not tell me which wager was graded as a win.

It has been explained to you about 20 fukin times. Move on and try not gambling on shit you don't have a clue about like booya said.

[Grivas_Digeni]

Asian handicap in Belgium/Panama was -2/+2 with almost identical vig

If your bet was placed before kickoff - not live - it's obvious that (+3) really means +2.5 and it was graded correctly.

Panama +2 you had to pay 118 to win 100
Panama +2.5 you had pay 200 to win 100

Look up the upcoming Brazil vs Costa Rica game. Prices here are identical. Brazil is (-550) to win the game straight up. Costa Rica on (Asian) handicap:

+1.5 is +145
+2.0 is -118
+2.5 is -195

I'm semi-new to soccer betting, and can someone explain this to me?

I wagered on Intertops:

World CupBelgium v Panama
Belgium v Panama: Alternative Handicaps
Panama +3 @ -200


The final score was Belgium 3-0, and it was graded as a loss. I spoke with customer service to try to get an understanding as to why it wasn't a push, and they said it was graded correctly, and then literally stopped replying. I was on chat with them for 45 mins, and then I gave up without a satisfactory explanation. I thought someone here might be able to explain it properly.

Thanks

[Grivas_Digeni]

I still think Panama +3 should be a push, because that literally means add 3 goals to Panama. And if there had been an option for "Draw Panama+3", that should be graded as a win. But that option wasn't there, which makes me wonder, were all off the options graded as losses? Intertops customer service would not tell me which wager was graded as a win.

THIS is what you should have told them - that option wasn't there.

Then they can investigate and see whether it actually wasn't there (it's a rare technical glitch and they ought to push/cancel your bet and many similar bets on this match, both winners and losers) or it was there and you didn't see it (a much more frequent occurrence, normally indicating the user is inebriated/an idiot/a newbie, please underline the necessary).

As far as the bookie is concerned, people who bet on the (European) handicap draw are winners, and bettors on Bel-3 (actually -3.5) and Pan+3 (actually +2.5) are losers.

[TheMoneyShot]

I'm going to side with the player on this...

When you label a game -2 or -3 with no draw attached... or no 1/4 or 3/4 attached. You would only assume it's a PUSH on a +3.

If we all have to play Mickey Mouse games WITH WHOLE NUMBERS.... Intertops can get fukked.

That's a shady camouflaged line.


5 Dimes clearly labels soccer matches
Bookmaker clearly labels soccer matches
Pinnacle clearly labels soccer matches
Heritage clearly labels soccer matches
Even Bovada clearly labels soccer matches.

I'm tired of books being lazy with the description of the lines. Player should be refunded.

[Bluehorseshoe]

If a +3 is really a + 2 1/2 with different vig..................That is the stupidest, scam BS ever. It has one point but to deceive the bettor.

[Grivas_Digeni]

If a +3 is really a + 2 1/2 with different vig..................That is the stupidest, scam BS ever. It has one point but to deceive the bettor.

Not different vig. VERY, VERY different vig.

If you get Ronaldo at +400 to score a goal in the next game, and you have your bet accepted, is there a book in the world that will pay it out?

Do you people even bet? lol

[Bluehorseshoe]

Not different vig. VERY, VERY different vig.

If you get Ronaldo at +400 to score a goal in the next game, and you have your bet accepted, is there a book in the world that will pay it out?

Do you people even bet? lol

No shit. Then just put out the real number with the high vig. It's a car dealership move.

[Alfa1234]

This European handicap is one of the most played soccer bets at all European books...how on earth can you blame the book if a player doesn't know what he is betting? You simply "assume" something and want a refund when you're wrong about it? No European player complains about this because it's so obviously a loss to anyone that bets soccer every now and then. It's absolutely not Intertops fault and if you look at ANY soccer match Intertops offers, the very same alternative handicap line is there with the draw as an option.

[Bluehorseshoe]

This European handicap is one of the most played soccer bets at all European books...how on earth can you blame the book if a player doesn't know what he is betting? You simply "assume" something and want a refund when you're wrong about it? No European player complains about this because it's so obviously a loss to anyone that bets soccer every now and then. It's absolutely not Intertops fault and if you look at ANY soccer match Intertops offers, the very same alternative handicap line is there with the draw as an option.

I agree he can't get a refund because "That's the way it's done". But do you agree the way the bet is set up could easily be misconstrued?

If I posted "A date with Angelina Jolie.....$1,000" and you find out what that really means is... "A look a like that could weigh 300 pounds." Then have someone tell you..."It's your fault for not understanding my definition of what I really meant."....You'd be pissed.

[Grivas_Digeni]

No shit. Then just put out the real number with the high vig. It's a car dealership move.

That's how real life works. These are the rules. And people who choose to ignore them normally have no car. They walk.

[Bluehorseshoe]

That's how real life works. These are the rules. And people who choose to ignore them normally have no car. They walk.

Really? Give me a bet offering on an American sport that is deceptive like that.

Instead of "+3" why didn't the book make it "+87"? Both have the same value for this bet.

[Alfa1234]

I agree he can't get a refund because "That's the way it's done". But do you agree the way the bet is set up could easily be misconstrued?

If I posted "A date with Angelina Jolie.....$1,000" and you find out what that really means is... "A look a like that could weigh 300 pounds." Then have someone tell you..."It's your fault for not understanding my definition of what I really meant."....You'd be pissed.

No not really...the draw is right there as well. It's a standard setup for that type of handicap. There was nothing "hidden" or easily misconstrued about it. You are advocating for Intertops to simply stop offering European handicaps while it's probably the most bet on type of handicap in Europe.

Would he have complained had he been European and "accidently" bet on the Asian +3 handicap for Panama? He would have thought it was a loss but actually got a refund...

[Bluehorseshoe]

No not really...the draw is right there as well. It's a standard setup for that type of handicap. There was nothing "hidden" or easily misconstrued about it. You are advocating for Intertops to simply stop offering European handicaps while it's probably the most bet on type of handicap in Europe.

Would he have complained had he been European and "accidently" bet on the Asian +3 handicap for Panama? He would have thought it was a loss but actually got a refund...

He said there was no "Draw Option" though.

[Sobob99]

Yeah there was no draw option for Panama +3. If you look at today's wagers (I posted a screenshot), it's the same thing, Japan +3 is there, but Draw (Japan+3) isn't.

Here's a screenshot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1db...yZOyGF4U8SOB36

He said there was no "Draw Option" though.

[Sobob99]

I've now learned the difference between Asian and European Handicaps, but at least Intertops should post a header that says European Handicap (as you can see on this thread, a lot of ppl would have made the same mistake I did), OR have an info button on the wager or something of that sort. If it's a type of bet placed often in Europe, that's nice, but if you are taking US players, you should be educating them on the bet. When I contacted customer service, for an explanation, they weren't very helpful.

This European handicap is one of the most played soccer bets at all European books...how on earth can you blame the book if a player doesn't know what he is betting? You simply "assume" something and want a refund when you're wrong about it? No European player complains about this because it's so obviously a loss to anyone that bets soccer every now and then. It's absolutely not Intertops fault and if you look at ANY soccer match Intertops offers, the very same alternative handicap line is there with the draw as an option.

[Sobob99]

I did tell them that the option wasn't there, and they literally stopped replying. I was literally posting "zzzzz" in the customer service chat, and the dude would reply 15 mins later. The same thing is there for today's game, Japan +3 is there, while Draw(Japan +3) is not. I posted a screenshot:

https://drive.google.com/open?id=1dbZ20nPR6Yi1ZOmpZCyZOyGF4U8SOB36

THIS is what you should have told them - that option wasn't there.

Then they can investigate and see whether it actually wasn't there (it's a rare technical glitch and they ought to push/cancel your bet and many similar bets on this match, both winners and losers) or it was there and you didn't see it (a much more frequent occurrence, normally indicating the user is inebriated/an idiot/a newbie, please underline the necessary).

As far as the bookie is concerned, people who bet on the (European) handicap draw are winners, and bettors on Bel-3 (actually -3.5) and Pan+3 (actually +2.5) are losers.

[Alfa1234]

Yeah there was no draw option for Panama +3. If you look at today's wagers (I posted a screenshot), it's the same thing, Japan +3 is there, but Draw (Japan+3) isn't.

Here's a screenshot: https://drive.google.com/open?id=1db...yZOyGF4U8SOB36

There are clearly draw options there man...do you want them to put "Draw (Columbia -3 = Japan +3) just to make it 100% clear for you? Come on...should they also add: "draw, this option only wins IF Columbia wins by exactly 3 goals so that means Japan must lose by exactly 3 goals"? Sheesh...

https://gyazo.com/ec8cb3ba3c0b9476f73665db976401e5

[Optional]

I agree he can't get a refund because "That's the way it's done". But do you agree the way the bet is set up could easily be misconstrued?

Yes. And Americans do mis-construe both European and Asian handicaps regularly when they first encounter them.

Same way a European looks at US odds the first time they see them and can't understand without research or an explanation.


The American odds system is the deceptive Barnum and Baily style design though. Not the European style.

[swordsandtequila]

I've now learned the difference between Asian and European Handicaps, but at least Intertops should post a header that says European Handicap (as you can see on this thread, a lot of ppl would have made the same mistake I did), OR have an info button on the wager or something of that sort. If it's a type of bet placed often in Europe, that's nice, but if you are taking US players, you should be educating them on the bet. When I contacted customer service, for an explanation, they weren't very helpful.

And a lot of people would have been wrong. It's simple, if draw is listed anywhere in the options it's European handicap, also know as a 3-way line. If no draw it's Asian, a 2-way line. Push, pick 'em, draw no bet all the same. See the same thing in hockey.

[Bluehorseshoe]

Yes. And Americans do mis-construe both European and Asian handicaps regularly when they first encounter them.

Same way a European looks at US odds the first time they see them and can't understand without research or an explanation.


The American odds system is the deceptive Barnum and Baily style design though. Not the European style.

Could I have an example?

[Optional]

Could I have an example?

Of why I think US odds are the deceptive design?


Because the format is purely designed to encourage larger bets on larger favorites.

Whereas US bettors have been trained that -120 means bet $120 to win $100, and if the odds move to -130 it means bet $130.. that is -EV by default for any bettor.

You don't adjust your bet sizing based on odds alone, it needs to follow the edge you think you have against the current odds.


If you are betting in decimal or fractional, the odds format itself does not encourage any change in bet size when odds move from 1.83 to 1.77

That's just telling you your return changed from 83% profit to 77%.


Getting everyone to mostly bet on 50/50 betting options is another trick too IMHO.


US odds are something Barnum & Baily would have been proud to have designed.