Is there is something rotten in Denmark?

[ABEHONEST]

Again, am I not seeing some drastic changes when you attempt to get a payout from ANY major BOOK.
Wow, I had it right the first place when I said it's like having a gun to your head so you will almost assuredly go the Bitcoin route for any payout.
ABE? He doesn't like to be forced to do anything that seems like you have but one logical choice, even if it "sounds like a good deal"

* So far, I haven't had any good deals while using Bitcoin, yet, with high fees looking you right in the eye, if you dare look elsewhere for that once in a blue moon payout, those fees are waiting for you like a hungry Great White Shark.
** Please, SBR moderators, let's look as this ongoing issue through our loyal member's eyes, and not through those greedy Book's eyes, so consistently.
We need a friggin' break and we all know why.

*** I am not suggesting there are no sound, faster/cheaper methods from any or all, of our major Book's, but, if someone stumbles over one [forget Bitcoin], please let members know?

[Alfa1234]

Looking at it through my personal eyes:

I can get a bitcoin payout and sell it an an exchange with 0 fees after it arrives almost instantly with the network being back to what it used to be. If bitcoin isn't fast enough, I can use another cryptocurrency like Bitcoin Cash, Ether...which goes even faster than bitcoin and gets confirmed in moments.

As opposed to: Neteller/Skrill/Ecopayz/Paysafecard where you are charged fees to get your money out of their wallet, a wire that has high fees and takes a few days...let alone Monegram or a check which is even more expensive and takes even longer

What is so bad about bitcoin? You had 1 bad experience so you are against it? What exactly happened and whos fault was it? Bitcoin is great for clients and books alike, it streamlines payouts and reduces fees on both sides.

[convick]

The lady doth protests too much, methinks!

[ABEHONEST]

Looking at it through my personal eyes:

I can get a bitcoin payout and sell it an an exchange with 0 fees after it arrives almost instantly with the network being back to what it used to be. If bitcoin isn't fast enough, I can use another cryptocurrency like Bitcoin Cash, Ether...which goes even faster than bitcoin and gets confirmed in moments.

As opposed to: Neteller/Skrill/Ecopayz/Paysafecard where you are charged fees to get your money out of their wallet, a wire that has high fees and takes a few days...let alone Monegram or a check which is even more expensive and takes even longer

What is so bad about bitcoin? You had 1 bad experience so you are against it? What exactly happened and whos fault was it? Bitcoin is great for clients and books alike, it streamlines payouts and reduces fees on both sides.

I didn't say I had one bad experience, only. More than one and one of those was very expensive to say the least.
A lack of educating myself on the best way to buy/trade/sell Bitcoins, yes, I am guilty. However, it should be simple, right? Being a cleaver Bitcoin trader, sure, they will likely fare better. And I have proven not to be one of those cleaver's ones. True.
But other choices today seem to be a real bitch.

I have been snake bitten using Bitcoins and using any other method [it appears?] is either with long waits or high fees. Even both at times. Crazy payouts like this one; one discount for any method not using Bitcoin--and one Book say's no discount unless it's on a Friday, then, you'll wait for 30 days for another discount payout. Before you know it, the second payout maybe a full month to be available? In other words, you'll pay the fee if you want a faster payout. I saw one Book that was charging $80, for a single payout. $80 for a loyal customer to get his hard earned funds?

Why does the customer need to be hit with so many negative methods of payouts?
My answer; too many amateur/rookie gambler's, are going along as if there is no other choice. This empowers Books to implement such ugly methods as we are now seeing. Therefore, the other hapless group of gambler's are left will little choice when they either dep. or have a payout.

Much like America has become today. This younger generation spends their paycheck routinely every week, and will spend as if there was no tomorrow. Then, they go broke cash-wise, and start the credit card routine. And if you have a cc, you know how treacherous that game is.
Concert tickets; movie tickets and outrageous prices for drinks/popcorn, this group does not care. Who does care? The retirees and middle-class and under, the one's who will pay plenty because of those extravagant buyer's above.

We are seeing a different America today and your over spending with have--well, already has for the majority of our citizens--damaging consequences to your financial security.
Let me ask the majority of members right now; is this not you?

[jbayko]

A lack of educating myself on the best way to buy/trade/sell Bitcoins, yes, I am guilty.

And the truth comes out.

However, it should be simple, right?

Look, the offshore books are running an illegal business in the eyes of the U.S., and banks do not want to deal with them. Therefore, financial transactions with them have never been cheap or simple because they have to go through foreign / grey market processors. Today, with Bitcoin, we pretty much have it better than ever.

I have been snake bitten using Bitcoins and using any other method [it appears?] is either with long waits or high fees. Even both at times. Crazy payouts like this one; one discount for any method not using Bitcoin--and one Book say's no discount unless it's on a Friday, then, you'll wait for 30 days for another discount payout. Before you know it, the second payout maybe a full month to be available? In other words, you'll pay the fee if you want a faster payout. I saw one Book that was charging $80, for a single payout. $80 for a loyal customer to get his hard earned funds?

See what I mean?

You're the only one complaining about Bitcoin because everyone else gets this simple concept.

[ABEHONEST]

And the truth comes out.



Look, the offshore books are running an illegal business in the eyes of the U.S., and banks do not want to deal with them. Therefore, financial transactions with them have never been cheap or simple because they have to go through foreign / grey market processors. Today, with Bitcoin, we pretty much have it better than ever.


See what I mean?

You're the only one complaining about Bitcoin because everyone else gets this simple concept.

Seem you missed the major point?
I have avoided Bitcoins for the reasons above. Personal reasons and I did admit, it must be good for the majority of members. So, I did not state I am against Bitcoin.

Now, the other choices you get are not too great. Right?
The other point; why these fees for good/loyal customers, especially, if you choose to not use Bitcoin?
Jbayko, you failed to see the key points and I never railed against Bitcoin on this post. Try again to be more accurate if you're going do disagree on my posts or opinions.

Also, I bet many members would disagree with how simple the Bitcoin process really is?

At least you offer a reply that makes sense to you, while others cannot do anything but offer cheap shots and offer no different opinion. That's called a failed post and a waste of time on SBR.

[Alfa1234]

Seem you missed the major point?

The other point; why these fees for good/loyal customers, especially, if you choose to not use Bitcoin?

Because they can charge them. For the same reason a concert ticket for Coldplay is more expensive than a ticket for some local band.

It's a business. The moment enough people leave them because of those fees, they will stop charging them. Considering those fees are only a tiny part of the business, it won't be happening any time soon...bitcoin is cheaper for them, so they want people to use that instead of the other methods.

And I would disagree bitcoin is anything remotely difficult to use. Educate yourself...it takes some getting used to and you will have to read a manual or 2 but once you get the hang of it you'll realise it'a a great thing.

Think of what happens when you get a new phone with new functionalities. It's an improvement if you put the effort in to get used to it and you'll get to love it eventually, although it can be a pain at first.

[moojoo]

Alfa maybe you could help me. I see you are in btc matter.
I want to use BTC as deposit method to fund my Neteller or Skrill account.
I have blockchain wallet only and i cant pay in using this wallet.
Can you please give me guide how to pass this obsticle.
Its something similar to Pedro issue with Pinnie,i couldnt deposit there too.
When i read barcode with my phone get invalid address.

[ABEHONEST]

Because they can charge them. For the same reason a concert ticket for Coldplay is more expensive than a ticket for some local band.

It's a business. The moment enough people leave them because of those fees, they will stop charging them. Considering those fees are only a tiny part of the business, it won't be happening any time soon...bitcoin is cheaper for them, so they want people to use that instead of the other methods.

And I would disagree bitcoin is anything remotely difficult to use. Educate yourself...it takes some getting used to and you will have to read a manual or 2 but once you get the hang of it you'll realise it'a a great thing.

Think of what happens when you get a new phone with new functionalities. It's an improvement if you put the effort in to get used to it and you'll get to love it eventually, although it can be a pain at first.

Okay, but if you have to read a manual or two, where's the simply thing about Bitcoins?
Also, yes, as I admitted above, I need to practice more if I choose to use them again.

The last time I did, I lost 125 on a 2 or 2 1/2 day of meeting the requirements. By the time I did meet them, I had lost that 125. Not happy about that and now gun-shy about using them anytime soon. I'll be patient and let the other members keep trying their luck.

* How great was it back in late Dec.2017 and throughout Jan. 2018. A ton of money lost and I am sure they did not think it was so great afterwards.

[Alfa1234]

Okay, but if you have to read a manual or two, where's the simply thing about Bitcoins?
Also, yes, as I admitted above, I need to practice more if I choose to use them again.

The last time I did, I lost 125 on a 2 or 2 1/2 day of meeting the requirements. By the time I did meet them, I had lost that 125. Not happy about that and now gun-shy about using them anytime soon. I'll be patient and let the other members keep trying their luck.

* How great was it back in late Dec.2017 and throughout Jan. 2018. A ton of money lost and I am sure they did not think it was so great afterwards.

That's like saying a check is very simple...to someone who has never seen or used one it would be very easy to make a mistake. It's only complicated because it's new and you haven't used it much. That goes for anything new.

And only those that kept coins stored lost money early this year...same goes for any investment that drops. It could happen to gold, stocks or any asset really. That drop has nothing to do with bitcoin being a valid, simple and cheap deposit and withdrawal method.

@Moojoo, it's because Neteller/Skrill uses Bitpay and they use a different protocol called the "Payment Protocol". You can't simply copy that bitcoin adress and send the coins to it. You need a wallet that supports that protocol (and I agree, it's a pain, I made a comment about it in the "Pinnacle now accepting bitcoin" thread.). The wallet I use is Bitpay's own wallet which you can download here (bottom of the page):

https://bitpay.com/wallet

A full list of compatible wallets can be found here:

https://support.bitpay.com/hc/en-us/articles/115005701523

Basically you need to use 1 of those wallets to fund your Neteller. You can send bitcoins to those wallets in the same way you send coins to your blockchain wallet, but you can only use those wallets to fund your Neteller or any other company that uses the Bitpay/Payment protocol.

Hope that's clear.

[jbayko]

The other point; why these fees for good/loyal customers, especially, if you choose to not use Bitcoin?

I already answered that in my last reply - because those other methods are more difficult and more costly.

[ABEHONEST]

Alfa1234:
Very thorough at the very least. A word of caution though; Well's Fargo now owns Neteller, right? In the not too long ago past, WF was thoroughly scrutinizing any WF transactions. Now, they own Neteller, who was once a very liable and simple/cheap method of doing whatever you wanted with those deposits.
Now?
,

[ABEHONEST]

I already answered that in my last reply - because those other methods are more difficult and more costly.

So, again, it's the customer that either pays for the Book's fees, while using other methods, or at the very least, makes you pay for choosing methods other than Bitcoin [so to help your poor Book on that other choice?]
It just doesn't smell right?

[jbayko]

So, again, it's the customer that either pays for the Book's fees, while using other methods, or at the very least, makes you pay for choosing methods other than Bitcoin [so to help your poor Book on that other choice?]
It just doesn't smell right?

Huh? This is how almost every business in the world works. The higher the operating costs are for a company, the more they charge their customers for that service. Costs are always passed down to the consumer at the end of the day.

You're complaining about basic economics.

[Alfa1234]

Alfa1234:
Very thorough at the very least. A word of caution though; Well's Fargo now owns Neteller, right? In the not too long ago past, WF was thoroughly scrutinizing any WF transactions. Now, they own Neteller, who was once a very liable and simple/cheap method of doing whatever you wanted with those deposits.
Now?
,

I'm not sure where you got that, but Neteller/Skrill is owned by Paysafe. An independant company founded in 1999.

I'm no fan of them at all, which is part of the reason I use bitcoin wherever I can now instead of Neteller/Skrill.

[ABEHONEST]

Huh? This is how almost every business in the world works. The higher the operating costs are for a company, the more they charge their customers for that service. Costs are always passed down to the consumer at the end of the day.

You're complaining about basic economics.

Uh, wake up, this is a very, very prosperous, so-called business. You sound like a Bookie?
You probably call it entertainment, I suppose, Jbayko? Still smells bad to me.

If more player's could see it my way and quit excusing these Books, we could very well trim some fat off this very expensive entertainment we all love so much.

[Alfa1234]

Uh, wake up, this is a very, very prosperous, so-called business. You sound like a Bookie?
You probably call it entertainment, I suppose, Jbayko? Still smells bad to me.

If more player's could see it my way and quit excusing these Books, we could very well trim some fat off this very expensive entertainment we all love so much.

I believe those profit margins may be slimmer than you think.

If they weren't, do you really think no other company would have stepped up to the plate to "trim some of that fat" and started offering lower margin lines, no fees and big bonuses to take away some of that juicy profit all those bad bookies are making now?

There's a reason no company has been able to do that and is still around. It can't be done. The margins are where they are supposed to be and any competition trying to undercut the current field by offering better prices and perks goes out of business. That means tighter margins don't work in the industry. Bottom line profit margin for the bookies, after costs is probably anywhere between 3 and 7%, which is where any healthy company is supposed to be.

[mrpapageorgio]

You seem to forget that these books are not running a legal operation by taking U.S. Customers. How easy do you think it is to find a bank to do business with that in mind (and have to watch your back nonstop for a U.S. Attorney to issue an indictment)? Even if they find one, they probably have to pay a fortune (think Scarface when the banker was charging Tony Montana a fortune to launder his cash) to issue M.O. payments and process deposits for U.S. customers to receive payouts and deposit.

Look at the marijuana business. Many states legalize it, but good luck finding a major bank to do business with because it's still illegal federally and all it takes is one ambitious U.S. Attorney to slap you with a AML charge if you start taking marijuana growers' money and you're out a fortune fighting it. This article doesn't show it, but I remember another news article where they showed a grower holding a wad of money that he was trying to figure out how to convert with a check so he could submit it to the IRS to pay his income taxes (yet if he doesn't pay, he'd get hit with tax evasion).

https://www.economist.com/blogs/economist-explains/2018/01/economist-explains-5

Bitcoin takes all of that out of the picture. No need to worry about banks and the AML laws they follow. None of that other bs which makes business much cheaper.

[Barrakuda]

Abe sounds a bit ill.