Something is rotten at Intertops: Shorted by $400 on an $1800 BTC withdrawal

[Alfa1234]

^^^ I can't speak for SBR Forum, but if I was handling the case I would leave it to the OP to post his own tx link in public if he chose to do it Alfa.

And I think SBR would go the extra mile for you. Last time you had a problem I don't recall you making threads like this multiple times and making it pretty much impossible to argue for goodwill.

We already went into bat for him once. And had that spat back in our faces. He could have simply replied to the last email and asked for help with this too. But he preferred to act like this. Make your bed and lay in it. He can live with the letter of the terms this time.

Fair enough...and considering the number of clients Intertops has (with very few complaints as far as I can see) I was probably wrong in thinking something fishy was going on.

[Frank]

Old moderator, Justin7, posted on a different forum that he has been shorted by Intertops on multiple occasions also.

[evo34]

I think they should re-assess the bitcoin processor they use. As you say it's not the first time we have seen posts about bitcoin issues. And if the OP was not such a bad seed I'd think they would/should consider helping him out in this situation too. But some people are their own worst enemies.

Why not simply post the transaction log with addresses blocked out? If there is nothing to hide, that should be easy enough to do and beneficial to both Intertops and SBR. No privacy issues either. Until I see that log, I am going to side with the OP and the other credible sources claiming Intertops has shorted them.

[Optional]

Why not simply post the transaction log with addresses blocked out? If there is nothing to hide, that should be easy enough to do and beneficial to both Intertops and SBR. No privacy issues either. Until I see that log, I am going to side with the OP and the other credible sources claiming Intertops has shorted them.

Ok Evo. Noted.


And the OP can do that if he wants. If he has nothing to hide as you say. It's his thread and his information.

Why are you so horny for SBR to post info the guy himself specifically said he did not want to post in the thread?! Why aren't you asking him???

SBR Forum posted what the book said. If the OP wants to dispute those facts he has all the power to do so in his own hands.

[milwaukee mike]

Old moderator, Justin7, posted on a different forum that he has been shorted by Intertops on multiple occasions also.

what is the average % of the short?

wondering if i should bite the bullet and pay the $50 for a ck instead (+ the 72 my bank charges for canadian ck)

[Optional]

what is the average % of the short?

wondering if i should bite the bullet and pay the $50 for a ck instead (+ the 72 my bank charges for canadian ck)

Most of the people who have mentioned it here talk about 5 or 10 bucks under what they expected. This guy and one or two other have posted about significant amounts.

I genuinely don't think it's a big problem from posts, but their bitcoin processor sounds like it's below average for sure.

[bigmarty]

Optional,
You've been coming at me pretty hard in this thread and in another. Until now I've chosen to ignore it, because my main priority is just to get my money back from this shady bookmaker., not to get into a debate with an internet stranger. But since you keep attacking my character

Who would know what happened here Rangerz. This is the second thread full off irrelevant attacks and only half the story from this guy.

I do not believe anything he says. Both threads leaving out half the info, using ambiguous wording, and adding a bunch of red herrings to deceive.

and actively campaigning for SBR to not assist me

We already went into bat for him once. And had that spat back in our faces. He could have simply replied to the last email and asked for help with this too. But he preferred to act like this. Make your bed and lay in it. He can live with the letter of the terms this time.

I am going to need to defend myself.

1) Just becasue you don't like rollover rules, does not mean it is BS.

Rollover rules are fine. A bonus with a rollover is like a contract. The book agrees to give the player the bonus, and the player agrees to clear the rollover before withdrawing. Changing the limits BREAKS that contract. Maybe the book can cut limits to 50% and get away with it, but in this case, my limits were cut to 5% of their original value. That's bush league, and totally changes what that rollover means. Industry standard is to pro-rate the rollover when a book wants to boot a player. I don't know how it's possible that you're employed by SBR and don't understand basic things like this.

SBR reached out to them once and you got a limit raise, whihc was out of the oridinary, and instead of ever acknowledging that you continued to cry that the rollover was BS.

SBR did not get me a limit raise. You should know what you're talking about before you speak. As an employee of SBR, it reflects poorly on your employer when you make things up. For transparency, here is my last email to SBR regarding that first complaint about completing a rollover with 5% limits. What happened was, the remaining rollover was tiny and it was not even worth it to have SBR increase a limit raise, because I only had a few bets left to clear it. Intertops customer service had not previously disclosed what the rollover was, and when I found out how small it was, I just cleared it myself. And I did acknowledge SBR's assitance.

I completed the $16k rollover. They are now asking me to clear a rollover on my last deposit of $2,500. However, the customer service agent just responded to my email and it was a tiny amount of rollover left. I just placed five bets and when the games settle it should be cleared, assuming the calculations I was given are correct.

If I have any further problems I will write, but I think this is taken care of for now.
Thanks for your assistance.

Notice at the end where I acknowledged SBR's help.

[Alfa1234]

Still no blockchain link?

[bigmarty]

Another player reported that he had also been shorted by Intertops in almost an identical scenario

3) Now you're stretching.

Here is the post I linked. I suggested that when Intertops sportsbook shorted me a on a bitcoin payout, that it was almost identical to when Intertops sportsbook shorted a different player on a bitcoin payout.

First off let me say that I have done many, many btc payouts from intertops and have been paid each time. So they do pay and I haven’t had an issue there. (Despite being a tad frustrated about their low btc payout limits)


That said, almost all of them have been under the $2500 requested (Value at exact time of transaction on blockchain) when received. Usually it’s 1-2% off, in the $2450-$2475 range, which I just accept as standard bitcoin payout practice by most books. The last two payouts, I received $2424, and this last one I did was $2377. (5% lower) When I contact them, they claim they have no control over the conversion rate (maybe they don’t, but their processor does) and blame “market volatility” which has nothing to do with this when I am quoting the value at the exact second they sent it. I have even been told by customer service to "let it sit there and let it go up" which I personally think is awful advice for a sportsbook to be telling a player.


Am I the only one who has experienced this?

How is that stretching?

[bigmarty]

You sir seem to take No Responsibility for your own choices!!

No, I do. I deposited with a shady bookmaker, and I paid the price. My fault. But that doesn't mean I'm not going to fight to get my $400 back. What Intertops did was wrong, and just because I made a mistake by not researching this bookie enough, doesn't mean I should be thieved.

And if nothing else, bringing it out into the open will help others by making them aware of what Intertops is doing.

[bigmarty]

I think they should re-assess the bitcoin processor they use. As you say it's not the first time we have seen posts about bitcoin issues. And if the OP was not such a bad seed I'd think they would/should consider helping him out in this situation too. But some people are their own worst enemies.

I don't know where this "bad seed" stuff is coming from, but it's a bad precedent you're setting by saying that if a player posts about a book cheating him, that this makes it okay for the book to short him on a payout.

[bigmarty]

We already went into bat for him once. And had that spat back in our faces.

You really didn't. I already posted the email where I replied and said I think I had the situation sorted, and I said thanks for the help.

He could have simply replied to the last email and asked for help with this too. But he preferred to act like this. Make your bed and lay in it. He can live with the letter of the terms this time.

The last time I filed a complaint with SBR it took 11 days to get a response, and that was only because I posted a thread about it. You can't blame me for posting about it straight away this time. If you or Intertops decide that going public with something negative that they did is grounds for being stolen from, then so be it. Bad road for them to go down, imo.

[bigmarty]

Still no blockchain link?

I would prefer not to post my bitcoin address, similarly to how you may not want to post your personal bank account number, or your ID, or your street address. I hope you can understand that.

http://oi63.tinypic.com/x4qi55.jpg

Please tell me what other information from the transaction would be relevant for you to see, and I will take a screenshot and post it here.

[Alfa1234]

I understand, although a BTC adress is completely useless and is completely open to anyone on the Blockchain. I understand you don't want that adress linked to your personal data though.

Can you go to the blockchain and take a screenshot of the USD amount shown there at the time the BTC were sent?

Like this:

https://gyazo.com/65283e0d13a1021ba057acef3d3cfabc

[bigmarty]

https://i.imgur.com/DRQi2jV.png

[Underdog5229]

looks like they shorted you imo. have they offered to make it right?

[bigmarty]

looks like they shorted you imo. have they offered to make it right?

Nothing yet. I am waiting for clarification from SBR on what Intertops is claiming.

[Alfa1234]

Seems obvious you were shorted and they should fix it. This is not A-grade book behaviour.

[rangerz2478]

Seems obvious you were shorted and they should fix it. This is not A-grade book behaviour.

And the worst part is this is not an isolated incident. It is something they have been consistently doing for a while now, with it starting small and becoming larger. Can confirm seeing it reported on other forums as well. For me, the worst part of it all is intertops throwing their hands up and blaming “market volatility.” I posted in my thread that a manager told me to “leave it sit there and let it go up” when i reported being shorted 5%.

[lonnie55]

And the worst part is this is not an isolated incident. It is something they have been consistently doing for a while now, with it starting small and becoming larger. Can confirm seeing it reported on other forums as well. For me, the worst part of it all is intertops throwing their hands up and blaming “market volatility.” I posted in my thread that a manager told me to “leave it sit there and let it go up” when i reported being shorted 5%.

Seems like Intertops found new sources of cash.

[SBR Forum]

Nothing yet. I am waiting for clarification from SBR on what Intertops is claiming.

Thanks for the follow up information. We are circling back with Intertops to confirm their position.

[dialup_king]

What prices have you been getting on deposits?

[evo34]

As expected, the OP was telling the truth...

BTW, is there any way to show the USD value at the time of the tx for an ETH tx? etherscan.io seems to only show the current USD value, which is not terribly useful.

[Alfa1234]

As expected, the OP was telling the truth...

BTW, is there any way to show the USD value at the time of the tx for an ETH tx? etherscan.io seems to only show the current USD value, which is not terribly useful.

Etherchain.org, if you search for the hash or transaction you can click on the current value and it gives you the historic value.

[evo34]

Thanks.

[bigmarty]

I contacted them directly, and explained that the way they are currently converting funds is not transparent or fair to the player. They have agreed to make this right.

Props to Intertops for getting it right in the end. I hope this case will be an alarm for them to change the way they process bitcoin withdrawals, beause it really is a great option for the sites and players, as long as neither side plays fair. If not, then we're back to bank wires and checks.

Will update when the funds hit my BTC wallet.

[SBR Forum]

To expand - our initial response that the transaction being $400 short once confirmed was not detailed enough. Intertops uses a third-party processor, the transfer was for the full $1800+ at the time they executed their request to the processor, but it took one day for the funds to make their way to the player due to timezone reasons.

Intertops has informed us they've made changes to ensure that this process will take place on the same day to minimize these discrepancies. While it was a bad bounce of the ball for the player that bitcoin was tanking the day after when he received his funds, it's worth noting that many players benefited from market movement as well.

[rangerz2478]

To expand - our initial response that the transaction being $400 short once confirmed was not detailed enough. Intertops uses a third-party processor, the transfer was for the full $1800+ at the time they executed their request to the processor, but it took one day for the funds to make their way to the player due to timezone reasons.

Intertops has informed us they've made changes to ensure that this process will take place on the same day to minimize these discrepancies. While it was a bad bounce of the ball for the player that bitcoin was tanking the day after when he received his funds, it's worth noting that many players benefited from market movement as well.

The following is in NO WAY a shot at SBR as they did a good job here, getting this fixed for the player and are only going off what intertops is telling them....

But the bold is an absolute bunch of nonsense. I'd challenge them to show proof of one player who benefited from this. Myself and countless others across many forums have reported being CONSISTENTLY shorted by intertops. (not a few isolated incidents)

In my case, I have done 30+ btc payouts from them over the course of the last few years due to being limited with a high balance, and the low weekly withdrawal limits. Not ONCE can I recall receiving a payout that was higher than the $2500 max (value at exact second of transaction) not once. Keep in mind, most of these payouts took place in the last few years when the btc price has SKY ROCKETED! Don't you think I would have cleaned up on these payouts if they were sent the way intertops has explained to SBR? Or at the very least I would have received some above the $2500, and some below. No, every single one has been below.

Again, SBR has done a great job here and nothing but credit goes to them for it. But intertops is flat out lying. They have been pocketing btc payout money for a while. Plain and simple.

[milwaukee mike]

To expand - our initial response that the transaction being $400 short once confirmed was not detailed enough. Intertops uses a third-party processor, the transfer was for the full $1800+ at the time they executed their request to the processor, but it took one day for the funds to make their way to the player due to timezone reasons.

Intertops has informed us they've made changes to ensure that this process will take place on the same day to minimize these discrepancies. While it was a bad bounce of the ball for the player that bitcoin was tanking the day after when he received his funds, it's worth noting that many players benefited from market movement as well.

that doesn't make any sense

i guess if my sister calls me from hawaii i will have to wait a day to call her back because of the time zone difference

[lonnie55]

that doesn't make any sense

i guess if my sister calls me from hawaii i will have to wait a day to call her back because of the time zone difference

I had the same first thought as you but I guess it means that when it's e.g. 2 pm EST it's already 8 pm in Central Europe which means end of work. Maybe their payment processor comes from Europe but it's just a guess.

[TheMoneyShot]

Come on SBR... rethink this through. The client made a payout request for a set amount of $1,833

Why would it be the client's fault in regards to the "hillbilly way" that intertops does their accounting?

The book is in the wrong 100%. This has nothing to do with Bitcoin volatility.


OP's screen shot clearly shows Intertops processed it at $1,420.40.... significantly shorting the client on the PO.

[evo34]

Ok Evo. Noted.


And the OP can do that if he wants. If he has nothing to hide as you say. It's his thread and his information.

Why are you so horny for SBR to post info the guy himself specifically said he did not want to post in the thread?! Why aren't you asking him???

SBR Forum posted what the book said. If the OP wants to dispute those facts he has all the power to do so in his own hands.

Because if SBR and Intertops had nothing to hide (turns out they definitely did), there would have been zero downside to posting a screenshoot with the addresses and tx IDs blacked out. But of course there was downside, bc said screenshots showed Intertops was lying and SBR was covering it up. (Or if not covering it up, they were doing the world's worst investigation).

After all of the name calling and insinuations by you, no apologies to anyone.

That's rich.

[BarkingToad]

I warned of Intertops being crooks almost a year ago. JJ will tell you how great they are because they were the first and blah blah. Just shows the state of offshore sportsbook when BetDSI and Intertops were A rated longer than they should. I would expect a big downgrade from A rated soon. Avoid!

[bigmarty]

Well, the funds were sent today. Funnily enough, it was a little short again, I guess these guys just can't figure out bitcoin but still, I have to applaud them for making up for the original mistake. Would much rather be paid $10 short than $400 short. In any case, I can't recommend them. Overall, my experience with them was frustrating and not worth it. It's hard enough to win at gambling without dealing with all the garbage they pulled.

Still waiting for Optional to come in this thread and apologize. I guess it is taking a few days because the time zone in Australia is very different.

[Underdog5229]

glad you were made mostly whole in this situation. Hope intertops learned from this and attempt to install and better system for bitcoin withdraws from now on.