I am curious if anyone knows...

**Optional** · 04-02-17, 01:42 PM

Just a guess but with the website running on one of those new fangled computer machines, I bet they went all modern and wrote some code to monitor these things.

**lonnie55** · 04-02-17, 02:40 PM

This article will give a small glimpse into the lengths that bookmakers go to to profile every single customer

From inside a corporate bookmaker

**phil_abuster** · 04-03-17, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by lonnie55

This article will give a small glimpse into the lengths that bookmakers go to to profile every single customer

From inside a corporate bookmaker

---------
an interesting article. thank u.
of course i could already assume online books have data on every customer and his wagering activity. but unfortunately i still cant find any clues as to *HOW* (and which specific parameters) any staff at a given sportsbook would take specific notice of an account.
fictitious example might be i would surmise that IF any customer attained a threshold profit of say $5,000 US on any day (regardless of his bankroll size) then i might suspect there would be "sirens and flashing red lights" triggered inside the sportsbook office and a manager would sprint over to that staffers computer station and investigate the activity. i might suspect that customers acct would then be manually monitored for several weeks for profit/winning levels, types of wagers, etc, so the book might then set limits.
but what i dont know for a fact (guessing doesnt really help) is at WHAT SPECIFIC THRESHOLD level do staffers/managers take specific notice in any account to trigger restrictions ??
so if a customer bets a variety of sports, a variety of props, on either home teams or visitors, on both favs and dogs, on both overs and unders, sometimes ATS and sometimes moneylines, on a variety of full games and/or halves/quarters/periods/innings -- really with little or no specific patterns whatsoever from the data - AND he he lays an average of 300 very small bets weekly, risking maybe $10,000-$20,000 on average- and his outcome shows no winning pattern but looks like this:
week 1 net win +$100 US,
week 2 net loss -$200 US,
week 3 net win +$433 US,
week 4 net loss -$100 US,
for a ONE MONTH net of roughly +$233 US, after a whopping 1000 bets in a month, risking over $40,000
--- well i wonder if similar account activity would then come under intense scrutiny, for immediately imposing severe restrictions...ive read several stories of customers being restricted severely, from highly respected A-rated books, when winning consistently week-after-week - in the 4-figure range. which makes sense, i suppose. but what about the small stakes customers who may happen to profit BUT by a small amount after rolling over their bankroll 3 or 4 times every month.

sure we can all make guesses about this,
but i am hoping for factual info from an insider
- specific to small bet customers who "profit small" -
turning over bankroll several times -
over a wide variety of differing wagers -
while playing in a A+ or A rated sportsbook.

its kinda like driving over the speed limit.
yes, i am keenly aware that law enforcement officers can and might pull us over and issue a speeding ticket for simply driving only one (1) mile an hr over a 60 mph speed limit. but... 99% of the time in 99% of the jurisdictions around north america that is extremely unlikely to happen on a frequent basis. it could though....but so too could 5 of us win a major lottery during April.speaking with several different traffic cops/sherrifs/state troopers about this, they all agreed. the consensus seems to be a "threshold of at least 5-9 mph OVER the limit" will probably get us flagged and pulled over, and most definitely if higher. in other words they have a definitive threshold from which they will not permit one to "fly under the radar" freely and it will cost us.

recently i have found a few angles resulting in small profit.
it would be large profit if i bet 3-digit amounts but then i suspect i would be flagged for sure.
im trying to "fly under the radar" by making only tiny profits (chump change)

and which sportsbooks or exchanges offer LIVE ACTION wagering on multiple sports and pretty muchignores the small stakes bettor who only makes very small profits ?? (pinnacle does NOT offer the live action wagering i am seeking)

Thanks in advance to any "sportsbook insiders" who reply with specific factual info

**Waterstpub87** · 04-03-17, 06:01 PM

Originally posted by phil_abuster

---------
an interesting article. thank u.
of course i could already assume online books have data on every customer and his wagering activity. but unfortunately i still cant find any clues as to *HOW* (and which specific parameters) any staff at a given sportsbook would take specific notice of an account.
fictitious example might be i would surmise that IF any customer attained a threshold profit of say $5,000 US on any day (regardless of his bankroll size) then i might suspect there would be "sirens and flashing red lights" triggered inside the sportsbook office and a manager would sprint over to that staffers computer station and investigate the activity. i might suspect that customers acct would then be manually monitored for several weeks for profit/winning levels, types of wagers, etc, so the book might then set limits.
but what i dont know for a fact (guessing doesnt really help) is at WHAT SPECIFIC THRESHOLD level do staffers/managers take specific notice in any account to trigger restrictions ??
so if a customer bets a variety of sports, a variety of props, on either home teams or visitors, on both favs and dogs, on both overs and unders, sometimes ATS and sometimes moneylines, on a variety of full games and/or halves/quarters/periods/innings -- really with little or no specific patterns whatsoever from the data - AND he he lays an average of 300 very small bets weekly, risking maybe $10,000-$20,000 on average- and his outcome shows no winning pattern but looks like this:
week 1 net win +$100 US,
week 2 net loss -$200 US,
week 3 net win +$433 US,
week 4 net loss -$100 US,
for a ONE MONTH net of roughly +$233 US, after a whopping 1000 bets in a month, risking over $40,000
--- well i wonder if similar account activity would then come under intense scrutiny, for immediately imposing severe restrictions...ive read several stories of customers being restricted severely, from highly respected A-rated books, when winning consistently week-after-week - in the 4-figure range. which makes sense, i suppose. but what about the small stakes customers who may happen to profit BUT by a small amount after rolling over their bankroll 3 or 4 times every month.

sure we can all make guesses about this,
but i am hoping for factual info from an insider
- specific to small bet customers who "profit small" -
turning over bankroll several times -
over a wide variety of differing wagers -
while playing in a A+ or A rated sportsbook.

its kinda like driving over the speed limit.
yes, i am keenly aware that law enforcement officers can and might pull us over and issue a speeding ticket for simply driving only one (1) mile an hr over a 60 mph speed limit. but... 99% of the time in 99% of the jurisdictions around north america that is extremely unlikely to happen on a frequent basis. it could though....but so too could 5 of us win a major lottery during April.speaking with several different traffic cops/sherrifs/state troopers about this, they all agreed. the consensus seems to be a "threshold of at least 5-9 mph OVER the limit" will probably get us flagged and pulled over, and most definitely if higher. in other words they have a definitive threshold from which they will not permit one to "fly under the radar" freely and it will cost us.

recently i have found a few angles resulting in small profit.
it would be large profit if i bet 3-digit amounts but then i suspect i would be flagged for sure.
im trying to "fly under the radar" by making only tiny profits (chump change)

and which sportsbooks or exchanges offer LIVE ACTION wagering on multiple sports and pretty muchignores the small stakes bettor who only makes very small profits ?? (pinnacle does NOT offer the live action wagering i am seeking)

Your posts are difficult to read. Depends how you win. If you hit a few parlays, and are up substantially, they don't care, they know they will get their money back. If you bet random things, specifically close to game time, they don't care if you win a bit. In my experience, not being a massive winner but still get some restrictions, it matters how you win, did you beat their number frequently, rather than how much your up.

If you are a total square, betting NFL games at 12:30, they don't mind if you are up thousands. If you hit them on player props as soon as they open, you are likely to generate more scrutiny.

They don't monitor all accounts manually, they likely have thousands. Most likely, they have software that profiles your wagers, and spits out a report of the 1% or so accounts that could be a problem.

**phil_abuster** · 04-03-17, 08:39 PM

Your posts are thought-provoking.
Depends how you win. If you bet random things, specifically close to game time, they don't care if you win a bit. In my experience, not being a massive winner but still get some restrictions, it matters HOW you win. did you beat their number frequently, rather than how much youre up.

----
seems plausible

If you are a total square, betting NFL games at 12:30, they don't mind if you are up thousands.

----
interesting thought.

i am no "sharp" to b sure.
but i often find value betting just before gametimes going AGAINST the line moves on the favs, and/or learning of last minute injury/suspension reports - something i feel is CRITICAL to sound capping but frequently not available until virtually the last half-hour (often learned during pre-game warmups!!)
thus, i am not so sure that betting within an hr of game start qualifies as being a "square"
i make as many bets early as i do late - but prefer to wait when injury status is uncertain (even if there is a line) and especially w/college ball where suspensions can and do occur early or late in the week.
i do always watch the pre-game line for possible "buybacks" should it be necessary.

They don't monitor all accounts manually, they likely have thousands.
Most likely, they have software that profiles your wagers, and spits out a report of the 1% or so accounts that could be a problem.

----
thats my guess too, but only a guess.
by being "a problem" my guess is this pertains to either
frequent HUGE winners, or
very consistent & significant winners w/significant sums of money involved -
while consistent but very insignificant winners (like me) fly under the radar w/o raising any flags at most A+ or A rated/reputable books, like driving just one mph over the speed limit......just a guess though until i hear from A rated sportsbook insiders w/their detailed knowledge :-)
Thanks for sharing your thoughts!

**Waterstpub87** · 04-03-17, 09:10 PM

I don't know what the smoking sombarro thing means, so i'm just going to ignore it.

With what you described, especially with waiting for injuries, I would be more concerned with them thinking that I was chasing steam. This refers to beating a book to a line movement. Say for example:

You are betting an NBA game of Houston vs. Brooklyn, Houston -15. News breaks that James Harden is sick and will not play. You have accounts with 2 books, Sharp book A and Square Book B

Sharp Book A immediately changes the line to -12
Square Book B still has Houston -15 10 minutes later.

If you bet Brooklyn +15 at Square Book B, it can be considered chasing steam. If you do this consistently, you can expect that square book B will eventually stop taking your action, especially if this is the only time you bet at square book B.

**phil_abuster** · 04-03-17, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Waterstpub87

With what you described, especially with waiting for injuries, I would be more concerned with them thinking that I was chasing steam. This refers to beating a book to a line movement. Say for example:

You are betting an NBA game of Houston vs. Brooklyn, Houston -15. News breaks that James Harden is sick and will not play. You have accounts with 2 books, Sharp book A and Square Book B

Sharp Book A immediately changes the line to -12
Square Book B still has Houston -15 10 minutes later.

If you bet Brooklyn +15 at Square Book B, it can be considered chasing steam. If you do this consistently, you can expect that square book B will eventually stop taking your action, especially if this is the only time you bet at square book B.

----
thanks!
this would suggest that a strategy of betting a very wide number & type of different sports and different sides/totals/props - at small sums - is unlikely to raise any flags if one occasionally gets a "brooklyn +15" steam-type of bet, especially when i happen to also take the other side just as often.

tonight i took gonzaga for plus money on the ML.
and after n.car fell behind i grabbed tarheels for plus money - which will guarantee me a whopping $17.

out of the approximate 750 bets i laid in march (wide variety/no real pattern/rolling BR 3 times), only about 20 were similar small profit arbs. i wonder if i am now flagged as a notorious "arb bettor" worthy of intense scrutiny? lol

**Waterstpub87** · 04-03-17, 10:03 PM

Originally posted by phil_abuster

----
thanks!
this would suggest that a strategy of betting a very wide number & type of different sports and different sides/totals/props - at small sums - is unlikely to raise any flags if one occasionally gets a "brooklyn +15" steam-type of bet, especially when i happen to also take the other side just as often.

tonight i took gonzaga for plus money on the ML.
and after n.car fell behind i grabbed tarheels for plus money - which will guarantee me a whopping $17.

out of the approximate 750 bets i laid in march (wide variety/no real pattern/rolling BR 3 times), only about 20 were similar small profit arbs. i wonder if i am now flagged as a notorious "arb bettor" worthy of intense scrutiny? lol

Sure, if you bet lots of random stuff, and they don't think you have an edge, they won't limit you.

I am not too familiar with live betting, I don't do, but they wouldn't label you an arber for that. Technically, you aren't arbing. Arbing would be the case I mentioned before, just with moneylines instead of spreads bet on both sides.

You are likely leaving profit on the table covering your bets with live bets. Consider, if your team is ahead as a ML underdog, you have a good edge. You are paying them additional vig to cover it. I would prefer you do that if I was your bookmaker, because my expected loss is less.

**phil_abuster** · 04-03-17, 11:41 PM

Originally posted by Waterstpub87

Sure, if you bet lots of random stuff, and they don't think you have an edge, they won't limit you.

----
good to hear!

You are likely leaving profit on the table covering your bets with live bets. Consider, if your team is ahead as a ML underdog, you have a good edge. You are paying them additional vig to cover it.

----
agreed.
this is why i would only try and cover a pre-gamebet w/ a LIVE bet on those occasions that i learn something during the game that makes me feel my original bet (dog or fav) is then at significant risk to lose (ie. key turnover in the redzone/ key injuries, foul troubles, exceptionally poor play by my team, etc)
i also use LIVE betting to enhance my position when warranted.
tonight when zags got into serious foul troubles and Collins fouled out i doubled my ML bet on tarheels