Bitcoin's Set for Best Week Since June

**raiders72001** · 10-28-16, 01:17 PM

I'm not advocating buying or selling. Just passing along information.

**raiders72001** · 10-28-16, 01:19 PM

**raiders72001** · 10-28-16, 01:28 PM

I meant to post this in the Bitcoin forum. Sorry

**Optional** · 10-28-16, 01:35 PM

Any bitcoin threads in S&I get linked to the bitcoin forum.

**Roscoe_Word** · 10-28-16, 01:39 PM

That's a good thing for us!

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 10-28-16, 01:43 PM

been a good week for sure

**SharpAngles** · 10-28-16, 03:43 PM

What's the right price to start thinking liquidation boys? I feel like 700-50 might hit some resistance but def not a bitcoin expert

**JAKEPEAVY21** · 10-28-16, 09:58 PM

at 705 currently

**luctens** · 10-29-16, 05:25 AM

Surely you guys realise that a big upturn in Bitcoin's value isn't a good thing whatsoever in the long term, and if you don't see this, then you are holding an extremely blinkered view and you are completely deluded.

Firstly for players that have Bitcoin in normal bookmakers and are translating it to fiat currency, the Bitcoin value makes no difference whatsoever to them.

But for players who are holding their balance in bookmakers in Bitcoin currency and are therefore affected by the change in Bitcoin's value, you really shouldn't be cheering this. If you're betting with Bitcoin sportsbooks and having to hold your balance in Bitcoin currency, you need to be hoping for Bitcoin to be as stable a currency as possible, as if Bitcoin can go up 8.80% in value in 1 week, it can very easily lose 8.80% in another week coming up as well, which obviously is extremely bad for people who are exposed to Bitcoin volatilities.

So people shouldn't be cheering a big Bitcoin price increase, because all that means is that Bitcoin is an extremely volatile currency and that players currently on the good end of a big Bitcoin value increase are just as exposed to big volatilities the wrong way coming up in the future, so players holding balances in Bitcoin need to be hoping for these big volatilities in Bitcoin to stop as soon as possible, as these players need to be hoping for Bitcoin to be as stable a currency as possible.

**Alfa1234** · 10-29-16, 06:13 AM

Originally posted by luctens

Surely you guys realise that a big upturn in Bitcoin's value isn't a good thing whatsoever in the long term, and if you don't see this, then you are holding an extremely blinkered view and you are completely deluded.

Firstly for players that have Bitcoin in normal bookmakers and are translating it to fiat currency, the Bitcoin value makes no difference whatsoever to them.

But for players who are holding their balance in bookmakers in Bitcoin currency and are therefore affected by the change in Bitcoin's value, you really shouldn't be cheering this. If you're betting with Bitcoin sportsbooks and having to hold your balance in Bitcoin currency, you need to be hoping for Bitcoin to be as stable a currency as possible, as if Bitcoin can go up 8.80% in value in 1 week, it can very easily lose 8.80% in another week coming up as well, which obviously is extremely bad for people who are exposed to Bitcoin volatilities.

So people shouldn't be cheering a big Bitcoin price increase, because all that means is that Bitcoin is an extremely volatile currency and that players currently on the good end of a big Bitcoin value increase are just as exposed to big volatilities the wrong way coming up in the future, so players holding balances in Bitcoin need to be hoping for these big volatilities in Bitcoin to stop as soon as possible, as these players need to be hoping for Bitcoin to be as stable a currency as possible.

Look at the long term graph for bitcoin prices. It's been a steady climb ever since the peak/drop bubble of 2013 and this is due to a lot of reasons. Limited supply and more bitcoin adopters, the bitcoin halving lowering the new influx by half this summer so the remaining bitcoins basically are in more demand...all of this makes for a steady increase in value over time. There are those that argue bitcoin could be as high as 10k by 2036 as by then basically all coins will have been mined. The very last coin will be mined somewhere around 2140 (estimate) but between 2036 and 2140 the number of coins being mined will be very, very low.

I agree volatility is bad, but in the long term an increase in value is the only way to go if the coin stays around as after 2036 the actual amount of bitcoins being minded will be so low as to almost be 0. That means, even if the usage of it does not greatly increase anymore the only way the value can go is up as the supply will be lower every year after that due to coins being lost (in forgotten wallets, errors by people sending it to a wrong wallet etc...). If bitcoin values drop long term, something is seriously wrong with the usage and adoption of the currency and it's time to get out. For now, I'm with the long term value increase guys...so I don't think there's anything wrong about cheering about an increase like this.

**luctens** · 10-29-16, 07:21 AM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

Look at the long term graph for bitcoin prices. It's been a steady climb ever since the peak/drop bubble of 2013 and this is due to a lot of reasons. Limited supply and more bitcoin adopters, the bitcoin halving lowering the new influx by half this summer so the remaining bitcoins basically are in more demand...all of this makes for a steady increase in value over time. There are those that argue bitcoin could be as high as 10k by 2036 as by then basically all coins will have been mined. The very last coin will be mined somewhere around 2140 (estimate) but between 2036 and 2140 the number of coins being mined will be very, very low.

I agree volatility is bad, but in the long term an increase in value is the only way to go if the coin stays around as after 2036 the actual amount of bitcoins being minded will be so low as to almost be 0. That means, even if the usage of it does not greatly increase anymore the only way the value can go is up as the supply will be lower every year after that due to coins being lost (in forgotten wallets, errors by people sending it to a wrong wallet etc...). If bitcoin values drop long term, something is seriously wrong with the usage and adoption of the currency and it's time to get out. For now, I'm with the long term value increase guys...so I don't think there's anything wrong about cheering about an increase like this.

It's obviously not anywhere near as easy as "all of this makes for a steady increase in value over time", "in the long term an increase in value is the only way to go" and "the only way the value can go is up".

If it was that easy then everybody would very simply be buying as much Bitcoin as they could possibly get their hands on right now and sitting on it for a few years and inevitably see the massive returns from their investment.

Bitcoin is a currency, just like any other currency, in that it's value can rise or fall at any time, and nobody actually knows which way it will go at any point. It's just like if you had all of your bankroll in USD but you decided to bet with a bookmaker where your account currency has to be in Euros. At all times whilst your balance is in that bookmaker in Euros, you would be subject to the exchange rate volatilities and you wouldn't know whether you would come out with more or less money at the end of it because you would be subject to exchange rate volatilities. And with Bitcoin it's exactly the same as any other currency, in that you have your money in a different currency and you don't know if at the end of it if you will have lost or gained money, it's as simple as that. The only difference with Bitcoin and it is a much worse difference compared with normal currencies is that if there is a change in the Bitcoin rate, the volatility is way bigger than if rates changed with any normal currencies.

So don't try and paint this starry eyed and deluded world by trying to make Bitcoin into something it's not, the reality is that by having your balance in Bitcoin currency, you're simply gambling on the Bitcoin exchange rate markets, in that gamble you could very easily lose a significant amount of your bankroll that you hold in Bitcoin by a big price drop happening, nobody knows where Bitcoin will go at any given point, and with the volatilities you're subject to in those markets, that's an extremely risky and inadvisable position to be in.

**Alfa1234** · 10-29-16, 07:37 AM

Originally posted by luctens

It's obviously not anywhere near as easy as "all of this makes for a steady increase in value over time", "in the long term an increase in value is the only way to go" and "the only way the value can go is up".

If it was that easy then everybody would very simply be buying as much Bitcoin as they could possibly get their hands on right now and sitting on it for a few years and inevitably see the massive returns from their investment.

Bitcoin is a currency, just like any other currency, in that it's value can rise or fall at any time, and nobody actually knows which way it will go at any point. It's just like if you had all of your bankroll in USD but you decided to bet with a bookmaker where your account currency has to be in Euros. At all times whilst your balance is in that bookmaker in Euros, you would be subject to the exchange rate volatilities and you wouldn't know whether you would come out with more or less money at the end of it because you would be subject to exchange rate volatilities. The only difference with Bitcoin and it is a much worse difference compared with normal currencies is that if there is a change in the Bitcoin rate, the volatility is way bigger than if rates changed with any normal currencies.

So don't try and paint this starry eyed world where Bitcoin can do no wrong for anybody and you obviously can't lose by having money in Bitcoin, and don't try and make Bitcoin into something it's not, the reality is that by having your balance in Bitcoin currency, you're gambling on the Bitcoin exchange rate markets, in that gamble you could very easily lose a significant amount of your bankroll that you hold in Bitcoin by a big price drop happening, nobody knows where Bitcoin will go at any given point, and with the volatilities you're subject to in those markets, that's an extremely risky and inadvisable position to be in.

True, yet it's the only currency with a finite supply so as long as the bitcoin usage does not drop significantly, it can only increase in value in the long term. Please quote me completely and don't leave out the part where I actually support what you were saying in the first please.

Do note this does not mean it can't drop 10 or 15% overnight or it's a guarantee the price won't be just 70% of what it is now over a year. I'm talking very long term. If the bitcoin adoption and usage keeps up with the supply (the number of coins being mined), the value cannot drop significantly. If the usage increases faster than the supply, it will continue to go up as it's been doing over the past 3 years...although short term volatility will always be a risk.

**luctens** · 10-29-16, 07:46 AM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

True, yet it's the only currency with a finite supply so as long as the bitcoin usage does not drop significantly, it can only increase in value in the long term. Please quote me completely and don't leave out the part where I actually support what you were saying in the first please.

Do note this does not mean it can't drop 10 or 15% overnight or it's a guarantee the price won't be just 70% of what it is now over a year. I'm talking very long term. If the bitcoin adoption and usage keeps up with the supply (the number of coins being mined), the value cannot drop significantly. If the usage increases faster than the supply, it will continue to go up as it's been doing over the past 3 years...although short term volatility will always be a risk.

What you are saying are completely wild assumptions of the only barriers you think are in front of Bitcoin's price increasing in the long term, but even if you were right in these wild assumptions that only the things you mention have to be achieved for Bitcoin's value to increase, it is still an out and out gamble you are taking in order for you to find out if you are right or not in those things even happening.

Bitcoin is no different to any other currency in that putting your money in Bitcoin is absolutely no different than putting your money in any other currency, in that whether you get more or less money out of it at the end is an out and out gamble on the exchange rate of that particular currency.

So don't try and paint Bitcoin out to be a secure investment or a predictable currency in the long term or any of that kind of crap, it's just like anybody "investing" in stocks and shares, currencies, commodities or all the rest of it, anybody investing in any of that stuff aren't "investors" or anything like that, they don't actually know whether they will come out at a profit or a loss, they are gamblers, just like you are taking an out and out gamble on the Bitcoin exchange rate as we speak, it's as simple as that.

**Alfa1234** · 10-29-16, 08:04 AM

Ok, then explain to me how the bitcoin price can drop long term if it's usage keeps increasing, which I set as a condition for the value to keep climbing.

"Yelling, you're gambling because it's a currency and betting on a currency to go up is gambling" is not really something that convinces me if there's absolutely no argument based on facts somewhere in that paragraph. Calling all long term stock, share or currency investors "not investors but gamblers" baffles me completely as basically every pension fund or long term investment vehicle in the entire world is based on doing just that. I'm sure you, in your eternal wisdom, know better than basically every bank in the world though.

**trytrytry** · 10-29-16, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by SharpAngles

What's the right price to start thinking liquidation boys? I feel like 700-50 might hit some resistance but def not a bitcoin expert

how many you holding!!

**Hu$tle** · 10-29-16, 02:05 PM

It goes UP then it goes back DOWN not much goin on here I am scared to hold any

**SharpAngles** · 10-29-16, 02:28 PM

Broke 720 this morning! Currently 718.

Originally posted by trytrytry

how many you holding!!

Not enough, never enough. Had a nice run at SWC poker and nitro so have a decent chunk in airbitz I've been considering cashing out but I may ride this wave a bit more. Kicking myself for selling some @ 590 a few weeks ago

It hits 750 and I'm clearing out most of them.

**luctens** · 10-29-16, 04:18 PM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

Ok, then explain to me how the bitcoin price can drop long term if it's usage keeps increasing, which I set as a condition for the value to keep climbing.

"Yelling, you're gambling because it's a currency and betting on a currency to go up is gambling" is not really something that convinces me if there's absolutely no argument based on facts somewhere in that paragraph. Calling all long term stock, share or currency investors "not investors but gamblers" baffles me completely as basically every pension fund or long term investment vehicle in the entire world is based on doing just that. I'm sure you, in your eternal wisdom, know better than basically every bank in the world though.

Your thoughts on why Bitcoin might go up in value are just wild assumptions and nothing more, you don't know if you're right or wrong, and in that situation where you're gambling on whether you're right or wrong, it's absolutely no different from a being a sports betting gambler, in that you may make a profit from it, but you may also make a loss, that's the gamble you've taken, but that's all it is, nothing else but an out and out gamble.

Anybody who "invests" in anything, whether that be putting money into stocks, shares, commodities, currencies, companies, businesses and all the rest of it, they are putting money into these things with absolutely no guarantee of profit, so obviously all of these people are gamblers, as anybody who puts money into something without knowing if they will get a profit or loss are gamblers. These people like to dress themselves up as "investors" and all the rest of it, but these "investors" are no different to sports betting gamblers, in that sports betting gamblers put money on bets and don't know if they will make a profit or not, and the exact same is true for anybody who puts their money into anything like stocks or currencies etc, in that they put money in, and they very simply do not know if they will make a profit or a loss.

So obviously you putting your money into Bitcoin is nothing else but an out and out gamble as you have absolutely no guarantee of whether you will make a profit or a loss, and if you're happy gambling your money on the price of Bitcoin, then more fool you.

**Alfa1234** · 10-29-16, 06:08 PM

Originally posted by luctens

Your thoughts on why Bitcoin might go up in value are just wild assumptions and nothing more, you don't know if you're right or wrong, and in that situation where you're gambling on whether you're right or wrong, it's absolutely no different from a being a sports betting gambler, in that you may make a profit from it, but you may also make a loss, that's the gamble you've taken, but that's all it is, nothing else but an out and out gamble.

Anybody who "invests" in anything, whether that be putting money into stocks, shares, commodities, currencies, companies, businesses and all the rest of it, they are putting money into these things with absolutely no guarantee of profit, so obviously all of these people are gamblers, as anybody who puts money into something without knowing if they will get a profit or loss are gamblers. These people like to dress themselves up as "investors" and all the rest of it, but these "investors" are no different to sports betting gamblers, in that sports betting gamblers put money on bets and don't know if they will make a profit or not, and the exact same is true for anybody who puts their money into anything like stocks or currencies etc, in that they put money in, and they very simply do not know if they will make a profit or a loss.

So obviously you putting your money into Bitcoin is nothing else but an out and out gamble as you have absolutely no guarantee of whether you will make a profit or a loss, and if you're happy gambling your money on the price of Bitcoin, then more fool you.

I suppose our definition of gambling is just different I guess. I believe there is a fundamental difference between investing with a cartain, calculated risk and pure gambling but from your post above I "get" what you mean..

**raiders72001** · 10-30-16, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by luctens

Your thoughts on why Bitcoin might go up in value are just wild assumptions and nothing more, you don't know if you're right or wrong, and in that situation where you're gambling on whether you're right or wrong, it's absolutely no different from a being a sports betting gambler, in that you may make a profit from it, but you may also make a loss, that's the gamble you've taken, but that's all it is, nothing else but an out and out gamble.

Anybody who "invests" in anything, whether that be putting money into stocks, shares, commodities, currencies, companies, businesses and all the rest of it, they are putting money into these things with absolutely no guarantee of profit, so obviously all of these people are gamblers, as anybody who puts money into something without knowing if they will get a profit or loss are gamblers. These people like to dress themselves up as "investors" and all the rest of it, but these "investors" are no different to sports betting gamblers, in that sports betting gamblers put money on bets and don't know if they will make a profit or not, and the exact same is true for anybody who puts their money into anything like stocks or currencies etc, in that they put money in, and they very simply do not know if they will make a profit or a loss.

So obviously you putting your money into Bitcoin is nothing else but an out and out gamble as you have absolutely no guarantee of whether you will make a profit or a loss, and if you're happy gambling your money on the price of Bitcoin, then more fool you.

I disagree with this. There are a lot of people that day trade crypto-currencies and invest based upon information.

**raiders72001** · 10-30-16, 04:07 AM

Keep an eye on Segwit and Lightning Network news. This will have a lot to do with price movements.

**luctens** · 10-30-16, 04:38 AM

Originally posted by raiders72001

I disagree with this. There are a lot of people that day trade crypto-currencies and invest based upon information.

Again, these day traders and all the rest of them aren't "investors", they are simply gamblers, just like anybody who is shelling out money with no guarantee or whether they will get a profit or a loss.

Whether you call it "investing" or whatever, putting money into currencies or anything whatsoever where you don't have a guarantee of whether you will make a profit or a loss is out and out gambling, plain and simple.

**Optional** · 10-30-16, 04:42 AM

Originally posted by raiders72001

Keep an eye on Segwit and Lightning Network news. This will have a lot to do with price movements.

What is Lightning Network Raiders?

And which way do you think price will move when SegWit is enabled?

Personally I can't see an obvious reason why it will affect the price too much, if it works as expected and provides a good short term fix that is. If not then I guess price should drop as confidence drops that the community can get it's shit together in time, or at all.

**Optional** · 10-30-16, 04:50 AM

Originally posted by luctens

Again, these day traders and all the rest of them aren't "investors", they are simply gamblers, just like anybody who is shelling out money with no guarantee or whether they will get a profit or a loss.

Whether you call it "investing" or whatever, putting money into currencies or anything whatsoever where you don't have a guarantee of whether you will make a profit or a loss is out and out gambling, plain and simple.

I think you are being a bit black and white there.

Whilst investing is a gamble, so is every choice in life if you choose to be as black and white about it as you are here.

Gambling on sports or casino or lotteries etc is buying into something you already know is a mathematical long term loser before you start. Stock market and currency trading are not the same in that way.

Trading anything can also be seen as a gamble. But I do not think you would be calling someone who buys hard goods with the hope of selling them at a higher price a gambler?

**luctens** · 10-30-16, 05:24 AM

Originally posted by Optional

I think you are being a bit black and white there.

Whilst investing is a gamble, so is every choice in life if you choose to be as black and white about it as you are here.

Gambling on sports or casino or lotteries etc is buying into something you already know is a mathematical long term loser before you start. Stock market and currency trading are not the same in that way.

Trading anything can also be seen as a gamble. But I do not think you would be calling someone who buys hard goods with the hope of selling them at a higher price a gambler?

Casino games and lotteries are pretty much an absolute mug's game in that they are only a very few little ways to even have a chance of beating any of those games, and for that exact reason I haven't mentioned them at all previously.

But sports betting is only a mathematical long term loser if you bet on the wrong things at the wrong prices that give you minus expected value, but if you're smart, then you can bring the ball back into your court and have a good chance of winning, and there is much more of a chance of being able to beat the bookmaker at sports betting than being able to beat a casino or lottery operator at their own game.

But you say that sports betting is a mathematical long term loser but refer to stock market and currency trading as if it's not also a mathematical long term loser. Of course stock market and currency trading are also mathematical long term losers, as just like sports betting, stock market and currency trading have an inbuilt margin against you that you have to overcome by being selective and only putting your money in the right places where you think the prices give you plus expected value. So sports betting, stock trading, currency trading and all the rest of it are exactly the same as each other, in that each of these products there is an inbuilt margin against you.

That inbuilt margin can be overcome by the right people in stock and currency trading, but the same can be said in sports betting, so to try and differentiate sports betting and other investments etc is simply wrong. Of course stock traders and all the rest of them would scoff at the thought that they are just like sports betting gamblers, as they like to take the moral highground and say that what they do isn't gambling whatsoever, it's "investing", which to them they try to make out is completely different. The reality is that there is absolutely no difference between a smart sports bettor and a smart stock trading or currency investor, in that both professions try to stack the cards in their favour to try and make a profit, but both may also come out at a loss. Both professions are gamblers, there's absolutely no getting away from that for starry eyed "investors" out there. They are gamblers just like sports bettors, it's as simple as that.

And what you say about traders trying to buy and sell things at different prices are surely not gamblers, of course they are gamblers, they are putting money in and gambling on the price of something moving one way or another, if the price the right way they make a profit, if the price moves the wrong way they make a loss, that is very simply a gamble, and the people taking these gambles are gamblers. I don't care if these people are trading the prices of something based on the price movement in the next minute, hour, day, week, month, year or decade, when all is said and done, it's all gambling and the people taking these gambles are gamblers.

I'm the one that accepts that anybody in sports betting, even if they are smart, are gamblers. It's the starry eyed "investors" out there in the stock and currency exchange etc world that think they are somehow different than sports bettors, those "investors" are the ones that are completely deluded.

**Optional** · 10-30-16, 05:34 AM

I agree that sports gambling is borderline to the definition. As it is possible to gain an advantage with enough knowledge and skill. As evidenced by the way books limit some players.

I'd also agree that many (most?) people who invest in the stock market are pretty much gambling in a more socially acceptable form.

But there still remains the difference that 'gambling' is legally required to be a game of luck in order to be licensed. Whether sports betting perfectly fits that is arguable, but that's the key difference. It isn't all luck with investing or trading where it should technically be to be called gambling in the legal sense.

**luctens** · 10-30-16, 05:55 AM

Originally posted by Optional

I agree that sports gambling is borderline to the definition. As it is possible to gain an advantage with enough knowledge and skill. As evidenced by the way books limit some players.

I'd also agree that many (most?) people who invest in the stock market are pretty much gambling in a more socially acceptable form.

But there still remains the difference that 'gambling' is legally required to be a game of luck in order to be licensed. Whether sports betting perfectly fits that is arguable, but that's the key difference. It isn't all luck with investing or trading where it should technically be to be called gambling in the legal sense.

I wasn't referring that sports betting shouldn't be classed as gambling or whatever, as I very clearly see gambling as putting your money into something with no guarantee of a profit or loss. So I see casino games, lotteries, sports betting, stock trading, currencies, commodities and all the rest of them in exactly the same bracket of all being gambling, in that anybody putting their money into any of these are putting their money in with absolutely no guarantee of a profit or a loss.

Of course, some of these gambling products can be beaten by skill and knowledge and some can't, but what is a completely delusional way of thinking is that smart stock and currency traders etc seem to think that they have such a much more solid chance of making money than a smart sports bettor, which is completely rubbish. Both professions are ones where you can make money, and in both professions you have a better chance of making money the smarter you are, but for any smart stock or currency investor to say that they have a much more solid chance of making money what they are doing compared with a smart sports bettor is utter nonsense.

Both professions are gamblers partaking in gambling, sports bettors accept that, it's only the delusional "investors" that don't accept that.

**Alfa1234** · 10-30-16, 07:31 AM

Where exactly do you distinguish between "gambling" and "investing" Luctens? By your definition and explanation above, everything is considered gambling. A furniture shop that buys new cabinets to sell has no guarantee whatsoever it will be able to sell that stock at a profit...if the customers stop coming, they don't sell it and will have to liquidate it with a loss. Is that gambling? Your definition says it is as there's no guarantee of a profit. All they have is the skill and knowledge they will probably be able to sell it.

Is buying a house gambling? I could "invest" in a house but by your definition, that's gambling as the house could lose 90% of it's value for various reasons (housing market crash, neighbourhood decline...).

By your definition above, every single thing that involves trading in a good or a financial transaction of any kind that is not completely related to consumption is considered gambling.

**luctens** · 10-30-16, 09:34 AM

Originally posted by Alfa1234

Where exactly do you distinguish between "gambling" and "investing" Luctens? By your definition and explanation above, everything is considered gambling. A furniture shop that buys new cabinets to sell has no guarantee whatsoever it will be able to sell that stock at a profit...if the customers stop coming, they don't sell it and will have to liquidate it with a loss. Is that gambling? Your definition says it is as there's no guarantee of a profit. All they have is the skill and knowledge they will probably be able to sell it.

Is buying a house gambling? I could "invest" in a house but by your definition, that's gambling as the house could lose 90% of it's value for various reasons (housing market crash, neighbourhood decline...).

By your definition above, every single thing that involves trading in a good or a financial transaction of any kind that is not completely related to consumption is considered gambling.

I don't distinguish between gambling and "investing" whatsoever. "Investing" is simply a myth of a word that is used to make something that is risky sound a lot more safe and secure than it actually is.

Anything where you shell out money without any guarantee whatsoever of whether you are going to get a profit or a loss is obviously gambling. Your example of a furniture shop is most definitely gambling. They've put money into stock and they are taking a gamble on whether they will be able to sell the stock or not, as if they sell the stock, they will make a profit, but if they don't sell the stock, they will make a loss, that's the gamble that a furniture shop are taking every time they shell out money to buy stock.

Buying a house is most certainly gambling, as if the house price goes up, you make a profit, but if the house price goes down, you make a loss, that's the gamble right there you are taking on the value of the house going up or down. It really is very simple.

Anybody with an ounce of common sense can very easily see that whenever you part with your money with no guarantee of if you will make a profit or a loss, that is obviously a gamble you are taking, and anybody making such a transaction is a gambler partaking in gambling, it really is as simple as that.

**Alfa1234** · 10-30-16, 09:57 AM

Thanks for clarifying your point of view. As mentioned above, our definition of gambling and investing just differs a lot. I consider everything with a calculated risk and a reasonable expectation of profit an "investment" as long as the reasoning behind it is sound.

Gambling for me is sports gambling without a calculable "edge" or lotteries, casinos etc.

**raiders72001** · 11-01-16, 12:08 PM

Originally posted by Optional

What is Lightning Network Raiders?

And which way do you think price will move when SegWit is enabled?

Personally I can't see an obvious reason why it will affect the price too much, if it works as expected and provides a good short term fix that is. If not then I guess price should drop as confidence drops that the community can get it's shit together in time, or at all.

SegWit solves bitcoin malleability problems that's not just a short term fix. This is needed for the Lightning Network along with future bitcoin projects.

The Lightning Network will allow bitcoin transactions to occur immediately off the blockchain. They will be entered down the line.

**raiders72001** · 11-01-16, 12:24 PM

The main concern right now is ViaBTC stopping SegWit.

**raiders72001** · 11-02-16, 06:27 PM

Last week, Bitcoin Core version 0.13.1 was released, officially bringing Segregated Witness (SegWit) to Bitcoin. 4 days in, 13.7% of Bitcoin nodes has already upgraded to Bitcoin Core 0.13.1, supporting the activation of SegWit.SegWit is an innovative scaling technology developed and introduced by the Bitcoin Core development team. Once it reaches a soft fork activation threshold, it will separate the transaction signatures from the initial transactional data, which immediately increases the capacity of blocks and eliminate transaction malleability.
Like all soft forks, the SegWit release (0.13.1) requires 95% of network hashpower to become activated. However, it is still difficult to speculate the future of SegWit due to the decisions of several major miners to prevent the SegWit release.
Miners split

Specifically, ViaBTC (6% hashpower) and Bitcoin.com (2.2% hashpower) are supporting Bitcoin Unlimited, a hard fork proposal that enables miners to openly choose the size of blocks that they deem fit.
Since a soft fork activation requires 95 percent of hashpower, theoretically, ViaBTC and Bitcoin.com mining pools could stop the activation of SegWit if their hashpower remains intact.
At the moment, 90.27% of hashpower is in support of Bitcoin Core while the other 10% supports other alternative proposals like Bitcoin Unlimited and Bitcoin Classic.
Although, the voting process for BIP 141 (SegWit release) starts on November 15, a substantial number of node operators are already showing support for SegWit.
BitGo Runs Core 0.13.1 surpassed Bitcoin Unlimited

According to 21 Inc’s Bitnodes, 13.7% of Bitcoin nodes has upgraded to Bitcoin Core 0.13.1 over the past 4 days, which is a significant growth rate considering that the voting process for BIP 141 hasn’t even started yet.

https://cointelegraph.com/news/13-of...runs-core-0131

**trytrytry** · 11-02-16, 09:28 PM

748 current price I see online