18bet steals money for bogus "bonus manipulation"

[Sportwetter84]

So i had successfully run up my 50$ deposit +37Euro Bonus to roughly 350realbalance and 300 bonus on 18bet. Then i mistakenly place 3 9$ bets (out of 122) on events below 1.8 odds (on 1.7, 1.79, 1.76) 3 days out. I instantly go into the live chat to acknowledge my mistake. 18bet promptly suspends the account, waits until those bets are settled and then decides to steal all of my money but the original deposit.
I initially went there because they are advertised on otherwise reliable channels but i guess they might pay good commission.
That s basically what the site is about, offer high bonuses and then rip people of with bogus manipulations. They are regulated here, i got no answer there so far: http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/...=8048-B1508477
Anyway I post here to warn.

[luctens]

So i had successfully run up my 50$ deposit +37Euro Bonus to roughly 350realbalance and 300 bonus on 18bet. Then i mistakenly place 3 9$ bets (out of 122) on events below 1.8 odds (on 1.7, 1.79, 1.76) 3 days out. I instantly go into the live chat to acknowledge my mistake. 18bet promptly suspends the account, waits until those bets are settled and then decides to steal all of my money but the original deposit.
I initially went there because they are advertised on otherwise reliable channels but i guess they might pay good commission.
That s basically what the site is about, offer high bonuses and then rip people of with bogus manipulations. They are regulated here, i got no answer there so far: http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/...=8048-B1508477
Anyway I post here to warn.

Their rules in question are these:

"10. Void, tie (refunded) or cancelled, will not be countedtowards the rollover requirements, as well as bets placed on oddslower than 1.8, multiple bets placed on the same outcome of the sameevent and bets placed on the opposite sides with the same outcome ofthe same event. Customers with an active bonus are NOT ALLOWED toplace such bets neither with real nor with virtual balance.


11. It is 18bet’s prerogative to occasionally review customers’betting activity and in case a bonus manipulation has been detected,we reserve the right to cancel ineligible bets and any winningsgenerated from them, and/or reclaim all bonus and winnings moneyaccumulated by a manipulative customer at any time and at our soleand absolute discretion.


12. Bonus manipulation is considered but is not limited to:
12.1. Bets placed on odds lower than 1.8
12.2. Multiple betsplaced on the same outcome of the same event
12.3. Bets placed onthe opposite sides with the same outcome of the same event"

By you signing up, accepting the bonus and accepting the terms of the bonus, you have signed a contract which means that you agree to amongst other things, the fact that if you place just 1 bet for even 1 cent that is below 1.80 odds, 18Bet have the right, as per their terms, to remove all of your winnings.

You made bets below 1.80, and as per their terms where they have the right to remove all of your winnings, they have carried out that right to remove all of your winnings.

It may seem harsh that only 3 out of 122 of your bets were placed at below 1.80 odds and for that reason you have lost all of your winnings, but 18Bet's terms don't make any allowances for how many of your bets have to be below 1.80 for you to have considered to have committed bonus manipulation and for them to have the right to remove your balance, given the terms they have presented you with and that you have agreed to, just 1 bet for 1 cent will do it and allow them to remove your winnings, whether you let them know by live chat that you've made a mistake or not.

They certainly didn't "steal" any of your money and they haven't "ripped you off with bogus manipulations", they simply followed their terms which you breached. They haven't just made this rule up, it was there when you signed up and you agreed to it and by agreeing to those terms, you made an agreement to 18Bet that wouldn't bet at any odds below 1.80 and you breached that agreement with 18Bet, and you are now paying the consequences for breaching their terms.

Some betting companies would overlook their minimum odds rule in this situation given you only bet 3 out of 122 bets below the minimum odds and you let them know by live chat that it was a mistake and some betting companies would therefore restore your balance as a goodwill gesture. But that's all it would be, a goodwill gesture, as you have breached their terms and they are well within their rights according to those terms to remove your winnings and they are well within their rights not to change their mind about this and to keep your winnings.

You may have only made a simple mistake betting at below 1.80 odds, but you have to be responsible for these mistakes. Because you have made this mistake, you are now at the mercy of the bookmaker and relying on a goodwill gesture from them to restore your balance, and relying on a goodwill gesture from a bookmaker is never a good position to be in, because bookmakers are not known for their kindness.

In relation to the Curacao regulators, I would expect that they will just go with 18Bet's terms which you breached and side with the bookmaker, which they are totally within their rights to do.

A very simple way for you to have avoided this situation is not to make the mistake of betting at below the minimum 1.80. You may say that everybody makes mistakes and that's true, but you must accept that you have to take responsibility for those mistakes and not expect the bookmaker to make it all ok every time you make an error because the bookmaker isn't going to be kind and sort out your mistakes for you.

If 18Bet make a goodwill gesture and restore your balance or Curacao regulators rule in your favour, then count your lucky stars and make sure you don't make the same mistake again as you would have got away with one big time. If 18Bet and Curacao decide to continue with the original decision which they are well within their rights to do so, don't bother to continue moaning and just take full responsbility for your mistake, see it is a lesson on what not to do and implement that for future betting, move on, and make sure you don't make that mistake ever again.

[Sportwetter84]

are you seriously defending them? I went into chat immediately after the bets to have them cancelled. Their T&C certainly would not pass in any reasonable jurisdiction. I do not need a degree in T&C to sport bet. They clearly act in bad spirit here and there are rules and laws against that. Sure, i made a mistake betting tired, but i also needed to insure other things, like not betting the same game twice etc and because only 9$ per bet count for the bonus i would have had to make 150 bets roughly.
And they did not just take the bonus, they took all the money in the account.

[luctens]

are you seriously defending them? I went into chat immediately after the bets to have them cancelled. Their T&C certainly would not pass in any reasonable jurisdiction. I do not need a degree in T&C to sport bet. They clearly act in bad spirit here and there are rules and laws against that. Sure, i made a mistake betting tired, but i also needed to insure other things, like not betting the same game twice etc and because only 9$ per bet count for the bonus i would have had to make 150 bets roughly.
And they did not just take the bonus, they took all the money in the account.

I am putting forward a perfectly balanced view based on all of the information.

It doesn't matter whether you went into chat immediately to have the bets cancelled or not. Does it say in their bonus terms "if you place bets below 1.80 odds but contact us immediately to have them cancelled then we are not allowed to remove your balance"? No it doesn't. So according to the terms you agreed to, you contacting them by live chat to cancel the bets makes no difference whatsoever.

You say "Their T&C certainly would not pass in any reasonable jurisdiction." 18Bet are licenced in Curacao and I wouldn't say that Curacao would be known as the most reasonable jurisdiction around so firstly I wouldn't expect the Curacao regulators to be helpful at all. Your only step after getting fobbed off by them would be to take 18Bet to court in Curacao. Notwithstanding the obvious outweighing in court costs compared to the amount you would be claiming for, I severely doubt a Curacao court is going to be any help to you whatsoever. So with you saying "Their T&C certainly would not pass in any reasonable jurisdiction", firstly the only jurisdiction you have the option to take any action in is Curacao so regardless of what any other jurisdiction may do, you have to concentrate on Curacao, and they are very unlikely to be of any help whatsoever. The same can really be said with pretty much any of the other regulating bodies around the world as well, they would almost certainly rule against you as well. You have to accept that this is the gambling industry where in terms of ts and cs, pretty much anything goes and if you accept the terms that are stated, you better abide by those terms as pretty much every gambling regulating body around the world will simply say "you agreed to the terms but you breached them, tough luck." You may get a better hearing if the dispute was in some other indsutry sector where regulators are way tougher and will take more on board than just terms and conditions, but we're not in another industry sector, we're in the gambling industry, where rightly or wrongly, the owness is pretty much solely on the customer to assess the terms and conditions thoroughly however unfair they may be, and the customer is completely responsible for accepting to those terms and can't after the event say that the terms are unfair because the customer agreed to the terms in the first place. You may not like it, but that's just the way it works in the gambling industry.

You say "I do not need a degree in T&C to sport bet". No you don't, far from it, but you do have to read through the terms and make sure you abide by them. You obviously read through the terms and saw the minimum 1.80 odds requirement so knew that under no circumstances you could bet at under 1.80 odds so that term was obviously clear and not hidden as you saw it clearly in black and white. However, you simply breached that term, and now you are paying the consequences with your winnings being confiscated which is 18Bet's right as per these terms.

It's not that you need a degree to bet on sports and that you were not intelligent enough to take this bonus and bet with 18Bet, it is just that you were careless in betting at under the minimum 1.80 odds which you said was because you were tired, and you have to take responsibility for your carelessness and mistakes. Don't blame the bookmaker for carrying out their clearly stated terms, blame yourself for the reason that they are taking this action, which is that you were tired, careless and made a mistake and take responsibility for this yourself, learn from this for the future not to bet when tired, don't be careless and make such mistakes and move on, don't expect the bookmaker to make an exception for you just because you made a mistake.

You say "And they did not just take the bonus, they took all the money in the account." That's obviously not true as you said in your original post that they gave you back the deposit, but in terms of the rest of the balance, 18Bet's rules state:

"11.It is 18bet’s prerogative to occasionally review customers’betting activity and in case a bonus manipulation has been detected,we reserve the right to cancel ineligible bets and any winningsgenerated from them, and/or reclaim all bonus and winnings moneyaccumulated by a manipulative customer at any time and at our soleand absolute discretion.

12.Bonus manipulation is considered but is not limited to:
12.1.Bets placed on odds lower than 1.8"

That clearly states that 18Bet are well within their rights to remove all winnings from the account in these circumstances where you've bet at under 1.80 odds, so I don't know why you've pointed out that they took all of the winnings and not just the bonus, as that is their right to do so as per their terms.

The very simple message here is that if you hadn't bet when tired, been careless and made a mistake which led to you betting at under 1.80 odds, you wouldn't have been in this mess, so just learn that lesson for the future and move on.

[Sportwetter84]

anyway, morally their whole business should be illegal and i would be very optimistic having that case before a court anywhere in germany if only you had any publicity of whats going on regularly in their business. i m new to gambling and i find it quite irritating people are defending such practices. Even if they state this was bonus manipulation, it really was not. I gained nothing from it, I made bets that did not count for the bonus so i actually made them some pennies. How can that be the reason to take away money?
Because of this i do not accept any argument made on basis of their bogus t&c which are, if you are honest, a way to cheat customers out of legitimately won money.
And btw do you get paid for writing all this stuff?

[luctens]

anyway, morally their whole business should be illegal and i would be very optimistic having that case before a court anywhere in germany if only you had any publicity of whats going on regularly in their business. i m new to gambling and i find it quite irritating people are defending such practices. Even if they state this was bonus manipulation, it really was not. I gained nothing from it, I made bets that did not count for the bonus so i actually made them some pennies. How can that be the reason to take away money?
Because of this i do not accept any argument made on basis of their bogus t&c which are, if you are honest, a way to cheat customers out of legitimately won money.
And btw do you get paid for writing all this stuff?

Of course I do not get paid for posting on this forum, what a stupid thing to say.

It doesn't matter whether morally their business should be illegal or not, rightly or wrongly the gambling industry puts the owness upon the customer to work out whether they are happy with the terms and regulators don't put hardly any requirement on bookmakers ts and cs on being fair or moral and they don't enforce or clamp down on these unfair terms and conditions either. You say you are new to the gambling industry, you will quickly learn that whatever you feel is fair or moral in bookmakers' terms doesn't make a jot of difference, it is your responsibility as a customer to trawl through the terms and conditions and make sure you abide by those terms to the latter of the law, as there is no regulating body there to back you up even if you make a small mistake like you have. That may not be fair or moral in your eyes, but that's just the way it works in this industry.

You say "i would be very optimistic having that case before a court anywhere in germany if only you had any publicity of whats going on regularly in their business." I expect you say this because you live in Germany but as I said previously, 18Bet and registered and licenced in Curacao so your only option of court action is in Curacao not Germany, so it is pointless for you to speculate on what a German court would do, as they will never have the right to rule on this case anyway. The only court will be in Curacao, and I would expect they won't be helpful at all.

I'm certainly not defending the practices of 18Bet, I'm just being realistic and telling you how things work in the gambling industry which for example, in this situation you have read the bookmaker's bonus terms and whether you thought they were fair or not, you accepted them and from then on you have been bound by those terms. You have made the one slip up like you have, and the bookmaker will pounce and enforce their terms to the letter and remove your balance. You then probably think you must have backup from regulators, and then you realise the regulator is in Curacao and they are not real regulators at all and they won't help you. You then realise that Curacao is the only place that you can take court action and you realise they won't be helpful at all and then you're at the end of the legal journey and you've not no money back whatsoever. You may not think that's fair, but that is what will happen in the vast majority of situations. You may get a bookmaker that takes pity on you and makes a goodwill gesture and restores your balance, but that is only an extremely rare occasion, the vast majority of the time, once you've breached one term that allows the bookmaker to remove your balance, they'll be in and they'll remove your balance, fairness doesn't come into the equation. You breached the terms and the bookmaker will enforce the terms no matter what and you will have very little backup from regulators or courts either. I'm not saying that's fair, I'm just being realistic and telling you that's the way it works in this industry.

You say "Even if they state this was bonus manipulation, it really was not."

It was bonus manipulation, simply because their terms state it was.

You say "I gained nothing from it, I made bets that did not count for the bonus so i actually made them some pennies."

This statement means nothing whatsoever. Their terms don't make any allowances for whether bets you made under 1.80 odds made them any money or not, so that is a completely pointless thing to say.

"How can that be the reason to take away money?
Because of this i do not accept any argument made on basis of their bogus t&c which are, if you are honest, a way to cheat customers out of legitimately won money."

It is a reason to take away your money because their terms state they are. I'm not defending 18Bet's terms in any way and I'm not saying those terms are fair in any way. What I am saying is that you have to be realistic in that whether the bookmaker's terms are fair or not, if you breach any of those terms, the bookmaker will enforce those terms to the letter and you will have no backup from the Curacao regulator or the Curacao courts. So whether your right or not about whether the ts and cs are fair, your opinion on this will fall on completely deaf ears with the bookmaker, regulator and courts and whether your right or not, if you breach one of the terms like you have, in the majority of cases you will not get your money back. That's the way it works in this industry, whether it's fair or not and whether you like it or not.

My opinion on this case is that it certainly would be fair for the OP to be let off this one time as it was only a minor violation of the ts and cs so my opinion is probably that of the majority of the people, but I'm not going to put across a starry eyed view saying that the bookmaker must restore the balance, this is not fair etc etc because that is just pointless as whatever I think about what is fair or what should happen doesn't matter. I will put across a realistic view of what will most probably happen, and what will most probably happen is that unless 18Bet shows an extremely unlikely and unexpected soft side and let's the OP off, then the OP has no chance of getting his money back. I personally don't think that scenario is fair, but that is the realistic scenario of what is most probably going to happen and commenting on what is practical and realistic is far more productive on commenting on what is fair and what should happen, as what is fair and what should happen hardly ever comes into the equation in this sort of situation in this industry.

The trouble is with this industry is that there are a lot of people that come in and are uneducated about this industry and assume that whatever it says in the terms, even if they make a minor mistake then the bookmaker will sort it out and if they don't, there must be a regulator that will sort it out so they think that those terms don't really have to be abided by, the punishment for not abiding by them won't amount to anything so they think the terms are really only just guidelines. The trouble is, whatever regulatory system you may expect to be in place for such a big industry, you have no such backup and you must make sure you follow the bookmakers' terms to the absolute letter and if you don't, don't expect any bookmaker or regulatory body to back you up, because that's just not the way it works in this industry. You might find a bookmaker that will take pity on you and let you off this one time, but definitely don't count on it as in the vast majority of situations, if you breach the bookmakers' ts and cs, you have nowhere to go to fight your case. The quicker people wake up to these facts and understand the owness is completely on them to abide by the terms and nobody is there to back them up if they step just one foot out of line, the quicker people will stop getting themselves into the kind of mess that the OP is in.

[Optional]

So i had successfully run up my 50$ deposit +37Euro Bonus to roughly 350realbalance and 300 bonus on 18bet. Then i mistakenly place 3 9$ bets (out of 122) on events below 1.8 odds (on 1.7, 1.79, 1.76) 3 days out. I instantly go into the live chat to acknowledge my mistake. 18bet promptly suspends the account, waits until those bets are settled and then decides to steal all of my money but the original deposit.
I initially went there because they are advertised on otherwise reliable channels but i guess they might pay good commission.
That s basically what the site is about, offer high bonuses and then rip people of with bogus manipulations. They are regulated here, i got no answer there so far: http://www.gaminglicences.com/pages/...=8048-B1508477
Anyway I post here to warn.

I doubt we can do much for you but you never know. You're welcome to submit a sportsbook complaint and an SBR agent can look at it.

Books with predatory/unreasonable rules like this are rarely up for mediating complaints about breaches of their terms. :\

[Alfa1234]

Tried withdrawing. They apparently have a rule which states you have to roll over your deposit 5x at odds of 1.5 or higher. I rolled it over 5x, but some bets were at lower odds so I still have to place some bets, no problem. Mind you there is no bonus involved.

Try completing it without having any bets accepted...ever...very hard thing to do:

https://gyazo.com/a838eb5ad3c2ef4088cafb7300ca2b66

They'll let me withdraw but only after I pay 4% fee of my balance. This is complete BS.

They aren't value bets...I mean there is odd/even with a nice juice in there as well.

Edit: they reject my bet at 3.3 and the odd even goes higher a few secs after, still nothing accepted.

https://gyazo.com/48a0688f694947ec276a1bf1643b83ca

[luctens]

Tried withdrawing. They apparently have a rule which states you have to roll over your deposit 5x at odds of 1.5 or higher. I rolled it over 5x, but some bets were at lower odds so I still have to place some bets, no problem. Mind you there is no bonus involved.

Try completing it without having any bets accepted...ever...very hard thing to do:

https://gyazo.com/a838eb5ad3c2ef4088cafb7300ca2b66

They'll let me withdraw but only after I pay 4% fee of my balance. This is complete BS.

They aren't value bets...I mean there is odd/even with a nice juice in there as well.

Edit: they reject my bet at 3.3 and the odd even goes higher a few secs after, still nothing accepted.
https://gyazo.com/48a0688f694947ec276a1bf1643b83ca

If you do an SBR complaint they may be able to get 18Bet to at least temporarily raise your limits until you've completed the rollover. If you are required to complete rollover then the bookmaker should give you a reasonable limit to bet with to complete the rollover but of course this is absolutely at 18Bet's discretion as their terms state you must do 5 times rollover and their terms also state they can limit your stakes as low as they want to at any point so if they decide to stand their ground and if SBR can't persuade them to change their mind then you will have no choice but to grind it out with dozens of bets at extremely small stakes or pay the 4% withdrawal fee and there is nothing else you will be able to do.

[Optional]

^^^ It's very rare that we can get a book to re-raise limits once they have been lowered.

If the new limit makes it impossible to complete a rollover, a pro-rated payout is the fair industry standard, but in lots of cases that is not favorable for the player really.

Grinding it out is usually the best way to deal with this, if it is possible.

Tried withdrawing. They apparently have a rule which states you have to roll over your deposit 5x at odds of 1.5 or higher. I rolled it over 5x, but some bets were at lower odds so I still have to place some bets, no problem. Mind you there is no bonus involved.

Try completing it without having any bets accepted...ever...very hard thing to do:

https://gyazo.com/a838eb5ad3c2ef4088cafb7300ca2b66

They'll let me withdraw but only after I pay 4% fee of my balance. This is complete BS.

They aren't value bets...I mean there is odd/even with a nice juice in there as well.

Edit: they reject my bet at 3.3 and the odd even goes higher a few secs after, still nothing accepted.
https://gyazo.com/48a0688f694947ec276a1bf1643b83ca

I don't like the terms either but as you have accepted them I think you might be best to just pay that 4% and get out personally.

Alternatively, you are welcome to submit an SBR complaint form and see if an agent can get anywhere.



The more I hear about this book the less I like it...

[Maxbet1990]

18bet is a scam

Their rules in question are these:

"10. Void, tie (refunded) or cancelled, will not be countedtowards the rollover requirements, as well as bets placed on oddslower than 1.8, multiple bets placed on the same outcome of the sameevent and bets placed on the opposite sides with the same outcome ofthe same event. Customers with an active bonus are NOT ALLOWED toplace such bets neither with real nor with virtual balance.


11. It is 18bet’s prerogative to occasionally review customers’betting activity and in case a bonus manipulation has been detected,we reserve the right to cancel ineligible bets and any winningsgenerated from them, and/or reclaim all bonus and winnings moneyaccumulated by a manipulative customer at any time and at our soleand absolute discretion.


12. Bonus manipulation is considered but is not limited to:
12.1. Bets placed on odds lower than 1.8
12.2. Multiple betsplaced on the same outcome of the same event
12.3. Bets placed onthe opposite sides with the same outcome of the same event"

By you signing up, accepting the bonus and accepting the terms of the bonus, you have signed a contract which means that you agree to amongst other things, the fact that if you place just 1 bet for even 1 cent that is below 1.80 odds, 18Bet have the right, as per their terms, to remove all of your winnings.

You made bets below 1.80, and as per their terms where they have the right to remove all of your winnings, they have carried out that right to remove all of your winnings.

It may seem harsh that only 3 out of 122 of your bets were placed at below 1.80 odds and for that reason you have lost all of your winnings, but 18Bet's terms don't make any allowances for how many of your bets have to be below 1.80 for you to have considered to have committed bonus manipulation and for them to have the right to remove your balance, given the terms they have presented you with and that you have agreed to, just 1 bet for 1 cent will do it and allow them to remove your winnings, whether you let them know by live chat that you've made a mistake or not.

They certainly didn't "steal" any of your money and they haven't "ripped you off with bogus manipulations", they simply followed their terms which you breached. They haven't just made this rule up, it was there when you signed up and you agreed to it and by agreeing to those terms, you made an agreement to 18Bet that wouldn't bet at any odds below 1.80 and you breached that agreement with 18Bet, and you are now paying the consequences for breaching their terms.

Some betting companies would overlook their minimum odds rule in this situation given you only bet 3 out of 122 bets below the minimum odds and you let them know by live chat that it was a mistake and some betting companies would therefore restore your balance as a goodwill gesture. But that's all it would be, a goodwill gesture, as you have breached their terms and they are well within their rights according to those terms to remove your winnings and they are well within their rights not to change their mind about this and to keep your winnings.

You may have only made a simple mistake betting at below 1.80 odds, but you have to be responsible for these mistakes. Because you have made this mistake, you are now at the mercy of the bookmaker and relying on a goodwill gesture from them to restore your balance, and relying on a goodwill gesture from a bookmaker is never a good position to be in, because bookmakers are not known for their kindness.

In relation to the Curacao regulators, I would expect that they will just go with 18Bet's terms which you breached and side with the bookmaker, which they are totally within their rights to do.

A very simple way for you to have avoided this situation is not to make the mistake of betting at below the minimum 1.80. You may say that everybody makes mistakes and that's true, but you must accept that you have to take responsibility for those mistakes and not expect the bookmaker to make it all ok every time you make an error because the bookmaker isn't going to be kind and sort out your mistakes for you.

If 18Bet make a goodwill gesture and restore your balance or Curacao regulators rule in your favour, then count your lucky stars and make sure you don't make the same mistake again as you would have got away with one big time. If 18Bet and Curacao decide to continue with the original decision which they are well within their rights to do so, don't bother to continue moaning and just take full responsbility for your mistake, see it is a lesson on what not to do and implement that for future betting, move on, and make sure you don't make that mistake ever again.

Just for having some bets under 2.00 your winnings forfait???wtf

[luctens]

Just for having some bets under 2.00 your winnings forfait???wtf

It was actually because some of the bets were under 1.80 odds not 2.00 odds that the bonus and winnings were confiscated. Is there any reason you've dug up a thread that's over 2 months old to make such a vague comment?