Bitcoin looks like a losing proposition to me. What am I misunderstanding?

Hareeba! · 08-26-15, 05:58 PM

Originally posted by Moneyman99

I was thinking about using bitcoin to fund a couple of books for the upcoming season. But now I come to find that..

Just buying bitcoin triggers a "tax event." Whatever that means! Then, if I'm lucky enough to win and deposit more than I withdraw from my bank to either of the known bitcoin sites, I would be subject to a capital gains tax. Plus, even if I cash out with the same amount from my book, but the value of bitcoin went up in the duration, I owe capital gains tax!!!

What am I missing here? Is bitcoin even usable?

I apologize for my naivete regarding this stuff lol.

Any different to any other "foreign" currency in that regard?
Of course it's usable and if you're a Yank desperate to use offshore books it makes a heap of sense, CGT notwithstanding.

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 06:23 PM

It's a good and easy way to move money into books if you can get enough of it. The problem is in starting out. You are limited to small amounts of immediate funds which makes using it difficult.

For the average gambler, it is completely unnecessary if you are satisfied with how you presently fund your account.

So unless you think you have a use for BitCoin, it probably isn't much value. When you need it, you'll know it.

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 06:29 PM

You've also got to differentiate between "using" BitCoin and being an "investor." If you buy and hold BitCoin, you've got to worry about tax reporting and gains/losses that you referenced.

However, if you are a user, you are basically only going to have a gain or loss of a few dollars. Not sure how all the reporting works and if these providers give you 1099s and such. But that is not going to be much of a consideration if you are just trading it for deposits and withdrawals.

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 07:42 PM

OK but hareeba, the reason why I ask if it's usable is if I am literally just going to buy say, 2 bitcoins and I automatically get flagged as a "tax event" just for buying....then have to pay a gains tax at the end of the year if I buy for 230 usd and then sell for 231 usd, what's the point? Are these things I'm reading and now relating to you worth it? Am I really going to have to save any buys of bitcoin just so I can show the irs what the value is come tax season? Thank you very much for the response, by the way.

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 07:47 PM

OK buffalo nickel, you're telling me that by just buying bitcoin for a,few minutes to get into a sports book, I have to worry about reporting the buy only if they file a 1099? (Say with circle ) ....

Also, I am not aware of any way to find an account outside of bitcoin, which is why I'm asking. All the other ways seem to have been closed off from my access. I have three locals I use, but none of them allow me to bet until gameday, and I want the flexibility to bet early when I see a good number.

Thank you very much for your response!

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 07:57 PM

Not sure about that. But if you buy and sell BitCoin, it is going to be reportable. But then, so is every bet you make and your winnings. I assume you are supposed to report every BitCoin transaction on your tax return just like a stock.

I don't know if Circle/Coinbase are going to provide tax forms. But worst case, you would only have to report your sportsbooks deposits with a line on your tax form. That is not a huge deal.

Have you never gambled using an offshore book or are you banned for charge backs or something? If not, depositing is pretty easy with a CC or sending a P2P from Wal-Mart or your grocery store.

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 08:07 PM

I used to use ** but the fees are outrageous now and many have told me it's next to impossible due to ** stopping the transaction in its tracks if they think it's for gambling. Same with money gram. I haven't needed to deposit for like 6 years (Yay! ), nor withdrawal for 4 years (boo! Lol) so I'm out of the loop. In your opinion, what's the best way? *********** is impossible I think with my cards.

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 08:09 PM

Omg w-u-nion and $ gram were the ways I used to do it lol

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 08:11 PM

Unless you are banned using P2P, I would say use Union of the West or grams of money. If you deposit $300, the sportsbook will refund your fees. If you can't use those, contact the book and ask about sending an order of money. They will pay the FedEx usually.

If you don't like those options, BitCoin would probably be a good option for you.

Your card is probably an option if you call and get approved for an international purchase.

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 08:20 PM

Thank you for replying, buffalo nickle. I'll probably just do the grams or union, seeing as how you said I have to report simply buying a bitcoin lol. That's absurd that the irs made that ruling that I can't just buy it for ten seconds to send money somewhere without having to pay a tax on it. Then again, nothing surprises me in the us.
Thanks again

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 08:25 PM

If you are just going to do one deposit, it is a lot easier. Getting set up for BitCoin and learning it is a pain.

Buffalo Nickle · 08-26-15, 08:38 PM

You don't have to report buying BitCoin. You only have to report selling it. So you would only report when you cashed out and had a gain or loss.

Hareeba! · 08-26-15, 08:44 PM

Originally posted by Moneyman99

OK but hareeba, the reason why I ask if it's usable is if I am literally just going to buy say, 2 bitcoins and I automatically get flagged as a "tax event" just for buying....then have to pay a gains tax at the end of the year if I buy for 230 usd and then sell for 231 usd, what's the point? Are these things I'm reading and now relating to you worth it? Am I really going to have to save any buys of bitcoin just so I can show the irs what the value is come tax season? Thank you very much for the response, by the way.

Unless you are dealing in pretty high volumes I'd think any gain or loss is likely to be negligible if all you are doing is using btc to fund your bookie account rather than holding them.

And as I understand your tax system you only need report gains? I can't imagine that ignoring a negligible gain would get you into any strife. Is there no threshold value for reporting?

If however you manage to strike it lucky and make a decent gain, is paying a bit of tax on it going to be any more a of a problem than on your winnings?

Moneyman99 · 08-26-15, 08:45 PM

Actually, I just saw that 5d accepts something called grams of money express. Is that as easy as it looks? Does anyone know if that works for us customers?

Nittany Lion · 08-26-15, 11:28 PM

Originally posted by Moneyman99

Actually, I just saw that 5d accepts something called grams of money express. Is that as easy as it looks? Does anyone know if that works for us customers?

I've used ** in the past to fund my 5Dimes account, it's always worked fine. I just get the directions from 5Dimes with the name of the person you're sending it to then stop by any Walmart and send the **. This year I'm using Bitcoin to fund my account for college football/NFL season about to start here. I started an account on coinbase.com to buy bitcoins and created a wallet on blockchain.info. Coinbase limits your Bitcoin purchasing limits really low starting off so it's probably not the best place to buy them. If you don't want to deal with having to add a bank account or low initial limits, I'd suggest buying Bitcoins for cash at a local place in the city you live in.

You can buy bitcoins for cash at ATM's in alot of bigger cities in the US, just go to (coindesk.com/bitcoin-atm-map) and see if there are any nearby. If not, you can go to libertyx.com/locations to buy Bitcoins for cash in person at any of the Ace Express Cash stores. I live here in Colorado Springs and there are tons of the Ace Express Cash stores around, you just have to create an account on libertyx.com and then you can buy $1,000 worth of Bitcoins in 24 hrs or $2,500 every 7 days. If you signup on their website using your Facebook account they don't charge any fees when you buy $1k or less worth of Bitcoins.

For a United States gambler I would create an account on blockchain.info, once that is created go to a Bitcoin ATM machine in your area or use the libertyx service I mentioned to buy Bitcoins and transfer them to your blockchain wallet. Once you have Bitcoins in your blockchain wallet go to your 5Dimes account or whatever Sportsbook you use and then transfer them over to it to fund your account to feed your gambling addiction

If you somehow come out ahead and don't lose all your money and want to cash out you'll need to request a withdrawal from your Sportsbook account and they can send you Bitcoins back to your blockchain account. To sell your Bitcoins for cash you'll need to either sell them at a Bitcoin ATM machine or transfer your Bitcoins from your blockchain account to a Bitcoin exchange like coinbase.com or circle.com to where you can sell them and then transfer the money to your bank account.

If you can find a Bitcoin ATM machine in the city you live in that will let you buy and sell that would probably be the ideal way to go, you can deal in all just cash and not have to worry about transferring money to and from bank accounts on any of the Bitcoin exchanges. I have one nearby me about 20 mins away, I haven't tried it out yet but will soon so that way I can make a more substantial deposit to my 5Dimes account.

Optional · 08-27-15, 03:19 AM

Hi Moneyman,

Hope you have got most of the info you are looking for but please ask the book directly about their payment options for that last question.

And please check our FAQ about allowed forum content http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/faq.php ;-)

beastballs86 · 08-27-15, 11:33 AM

Originally posted by Optional

Hi Moneyman,

Hope you have got most of the info you are looking for but please ask the book directly about their payment options for that last question.

And please check our FAQ about allowed forum content http://www.sportsbookreview.com/forum/faq.php ;-)

ty optinal