Danger of betting with Pinnacle on tennis set handicap

**dealer wins** · 07-01-14, 10:15 AM

That Pinny rule is standard at the books I play with.

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 07-01-14, 01:41 PM

That's normal, unfortunately.

**horja1** · 07-01-14, 01:52 PM

Originally posted by bihon

A few days ago I bet on Shvedova (+1.5) vs Keys.
Shvedova won the 1st set and by the result 6:6 in 2nd set, Keys retired.
At my surprise the bet was cancelled (what screwed up my hedging position), in accordance with Pinnacle rules:
"If a tennis match is not completed because of a player retirement or disqualification, all Set betting wagers will be considered void. Such wagers will be cancelled and the monies refunded.

Example: If we offer Player A (-1.5 sets or -2.5 sets ) vs Player B (+1.5 sets or +2.5 sets) the match must be completed."

So, they grade Shvedova as the winner (which was not even determined) but at the same time NOT the completed set, which was clearly determined.

All the other reputable books use common sense in this case.

Bet365
"In the event of a disqualification or retirement all bets will be void unless the final set has begun or the settlement of the bet has ALREADY BEEN DETERMINED"

MarathonBET
"If a player retires or is disqualified bets on the match result will stand as long as one set has been completed, otherwise these bets will be void. Bets on other markets will be void unless a definitive result for that market has already been DETERMINED.

Example #2. The match Nadal vs Federer is abandoned with the score 1:1 (6:4, 0:6, 0:1) because of Nadal retiring. Bets on Federer (+3.5) will be settled as WINNERS and bets on Nadal (-3.5) will be settled as losers, because your bet on Nadal (-3.5) could not win whatever the last set score was has the match reached its natural conclusion."

So, be very careful if you bet at Pinnacle on set handicapping.

so what you are actually saying is you did not read the rules before placing the bet

**bihon** · 07-01-14, 03:23 PM

Originally posted by horja1

so what you are actually saying is you did not read the rules before placing the bet

Not really smart reply. This is a warning to other people, not a complaint.
One doesn't expect such a senseless rule from Pinnacle.

**horja1** · 07-01-14, 04:17 PM

Originally posted by bihon

Not really smart reply. This is a warning to other people, not a complaint.
One doesn't expect such a senseless rule from Pinnacle.

warning for what? it's not like they stole your money or canceled your bet or graded it wrong ... they have a rule which is actually used by a lot of books and they went by that rule ...

no one who actually bets on tennis should need any warning about the specific tennis rules of the book they use for tennis betting ...

you know there are books who grade a tennis ML bet even if only 1 point was played or there are books who will grade the ML bet only if 1 set was completed, or books who will cancel the ML bet if the match is not completed ... which of these is acting senseless?

the only thing that is not smart here is the fact that this thread was started

**daringly** · 07-01-14, 09:17 PM

I agree with your general idea that players should know the rules of bets on a sport if they are putting money at risk. The odds for some matches are actually different, depending on the rules. For example, Pinny and matchbook give a match ml action after one set, whereas Cris does not. Certain bets are more favorable at the same odds then, depending on whom you are backing and where you place the bet.

Understanding Pinny's "danger zone" rule in live WC is enough to pay for the juice in many situations if you are betting unders late.

**wrongturn** · 07-02-14, 04:56 PM

Generally sport betting rules come from two main sources, Las Vegas and Europe. One main difference that often surprises players who either just started or from Europe is how bets on incomplete match are graded. Las Vegas rules use a "lazy" approach, ie just cancel the bets. But Europe uses more "sensible" approach, ie if result is clearly determined, grade win or loss, otherwise refund. Two types of bets often in dispute are tennis set bet, and baseball total. Some books also tried to use Vegas rules on soccer total, but got totally blasted so now I believe all books just use Europe rules on that. But they are still very divided on tennis set and baseball total. Pinnacle came from US sports so it uses Vegas rules.

**eddie701** · 07-02-14, 05:15 PM

I bet Keys -1.5 sets and I got my money back, so it can work both ways.

**bihon** · 07-06-14, 04:03 AM

Originally posted by wrongturn

Generally sport betting rules come from two main sources, Las Vegas and Europe. One main difference that often surprises players who either just started or from Europe is how bets on incomplete match are graded. Las Vegas rules use a "lazy" approach, ie just cancel the bets. But Europe uses more "sensible" approach, ie if result is clearly determined, grade win or loss, otherwise refund. Two types of bets often in dispute are tennis set bet, and baseball total. Some books also tried to use Vegas rules on soccer total, but got totally blasted so now I believe all books just use Europe rules on that. But they are still very divided on tennis set and baseball total. Pinnacle came from US sports so it uses Vegas rules.

Well the moneyline rule contradicts that idea.
You can't grade undetermined result as a winner after one set finished and at the same time grading the winning fully determined set of the winner as no action.
Well you can, as you make the rules, but it is clearly senseless and not worth of the reliable book.

**JayZ** · 07-06-14, 05:22 AM

Originally posted by wrongturn

Generally sport betting rules come from two main sources, Las Vegas and Europe. One main difference that often surprises players who either just started or from Europe is how bets on incomplete match are graded. Las Vegas rules use a "lazy" approach, ie just cancel the bets. But Europe uses more "sensible" approach, ie if result is clearly determined, grade win or loss, otherwise refund. Two types of bets often in dispute are tennis set bet, and baseball total. Some books also tried to use Vegas rules on soccer total, but got totally blasted so now I believe all books just use Europe rules on that. But they are still very divided on tennis set and baseball total. Pinnacle came from US sports so it uses Vegas rules.

Many UK books have rules on various American sports that align with how they operate for soccer or rugby. These may not be what people in the USA expect.

**Sawyer** · 07-06-14, 06:08 AM

Don't bet overs, + set handicap bets in Pinnacle.
Bet unders and - set handicap bets and you'll be fine.

It's like hitting a middle bet when you bet Over 20 +100 in a softbook and picked other side (Under +120) in Pinnacle. When player retires, softbook (depending on book but most books settle this way) settles your bet as win and Pinnacle settles your bet as void.

**jjgold** · 07-06-14, 06:29 AM

Bet365
"In the event of a disqualification or retirement all bets will be void unless the final set has begun or the settlement of the bet has ALREADY BEEN DETERMINED"

That too me is the best way to grade