Bwin Won't Pay Out on Winning Bet

**stevedirtycash** · 04-30-13, 10:47 AM

yer bwin are a very dodgy company thats for sure i took my balance out of there 2 days ago ,

i dont know if u can do anything just never bet there again even if they offer u any bonus or specials

**sasker** · 04-30-13, 01:47 PM

Originally posted by stocky699

Alright Peeps,

Need some advise...

On Friday 26th April I placed a £20 bet at odds of 4/1 for Deontay Wilder to win a boxing match in the first round against Audley Harrison.

On Saturday 27th April, 70 seconds into the first round Deontay Wilder won the fight by knock out, the time was 20:48pm GMT.

On Saturday 27th April at 21:54pm GMT Bwin cancelled my winning bet and refunded my original stake.

After sending a few emails and badgering them on the phone, I spoke to someone in customer services today who told me the reason why they cancelled my bet was that they thought it was a 12 round fight and it was actually a 10 round fight, therefore all round bets were cancelled. 10 round or 12 round though my bet was still for a knockout in round 1. I can understand that if it's a 10 round fight the odds of a first round knockout will be shortened but it's not my fault they got it wrong. In any case, most of the other gambling websites were offering 4/1 on a first round knockout for Deontay Wilder, all of these other bookies can't also have got the odds wrong.

I just can't believe a major company can get away with what is tantamount to theft.

Can anyone help me please?

Dan

Hi Dan this doesn't surprise me at all. See my post titled, BWIN closed my account with £1500 left in it It tells you what they are like and just how much trouble I have had with them. They don't like people winning full stop.

**onemoregoal** · 04-30-13, 01:49 PM

They *should* have voided all the bets from people - including the loses ones. If thats the case, then its fair enough really.
Its possible they just screwed the winning bettors, though.

**BranchDavidian** · 05-01-13, 08:44 AM

The next time Bwin takes a loss on a fight, all they need to do is say that they "thought" the fight was for a different number of rounds and eliminate that loss. What happened to you book the bet you pay the bet?

**SBR Forum** · 05-01-13, 08:52 AM

Originally posted by BranchDavidian

The next time Bwin takes a loss on a fight, all they need to do is say that they "thought" the fight was for a different number of rounds and eliminate that loss. What happened to you book the bet you pay the bet?

It's a bad break for the player but fair if all bets are void. They priced the market based on incorrect game details, it's like seeing bets voided due to wrong venue only worse as his specific bet was directly tied into the length of the match.

**BranchDavidian** · 05-01-13, 09:10 AM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

It's a bad break for the player but fair if all bets are void. They priced the market based on incorrect game details, it's like seeing bets voided due to wrong venue only worse as his specific bet was directly tied into the length of the match.

According to the OP, the odds at Bwin were the same as everywhere else. In the case of a bad line, it is easy to detect by looking at the odds at other sites. It would be impossible to police sites if all they have to do to void any losing market is say they "thought" something was different about the game. ( If, indeed, they had similar odds to the market, you are handing the books a theft ticket by allowing them to get away with this.)

**BranchDavidian** · 05-01-13, 09:15 AM

If the book is not claiming a bad line, then they should pay out on that line. If it is claiming a bad line, then compare it to the market. ( It is not the customer's responsibility to determine if the book did its job correctly. And, if the book publishes lines that are within the markets range, who cares how they got there? Any book can claim they left out a valuable piece of information in determining that line that they had come up with the previous day if that market went south on them the previous day - but if their odds were in line with market odds then so what? )

**Squared Box** · 05-01-13, 11:09 AM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

It's a bad break for the player but fair if all bets are void. They priced the market based on incorrect game details, it's like seeing bets voided due to wrong venue only worse as his specific bet was directly tied into the length of the match.

That's absurd.

It wasn't a bad line and it wasn't canceled before the match was settled. This is theft.

**SBR Forum** · 05-01-13, 11:19 AM

Originally posted by BranchDavidian

If the book is not claiming a bad line, then they should pay out on that line. If it is claiming a bad line, then compare it to the market. ( It is not the customer's responsibility to determine if the book did its job correctly. And, if the book publishes lines that are within the markets range, who cares how they got there? Any book can claim they left out a valuable piece of information in determining that line that they had come up with the previous day if that market went south on them the previous day - but if their odds were in line with market odds then so what? )

True but it's not as common of a market, for all we know Bwin priced it wrong and others followed suit and copied their odds.

Bwin doesn't like to discuss complaints with third parties but this doesn't sound like a case that he can win through eCogra or others, unless it is shown that bets were only voided for winners, which we don't know to be the case and frankly I doubt being so.

**onemoregoal** · 05-01-13, 11:23 AM

No book would ever copy BWIN. They would do better asking a gorilla.

**hunter111** · 05-01-13, 11:29 AM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

No book would ever copy BWIN. They would do better asking a gorilla.

Dream on.
Pinnaclesports is copying odds by Bwin day by day. Pinnaclesports is the Bookmaker, who is never making odds by their own, especially for european league, no matter which sports

**onemoregoal** · 05-01-13, 11:50 AM

Originally posted by hunter111

Dream on.
Pinnaclesports is copying odds by Bwin day by day. Pinnaclesports is the Bookmaker, who is never making odds by their own, especially for european league, no matter which sports

Pinnacle are copying BWIN? Is that you just said

**hunter111** · 05-01-13, 12:21 PM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

Pinnacle are copying BWIN? Is that you just said

100%, but not only by bwin.
If Marathonbet is offering odds for a league, especiall handicaps, Pinnacle is copying it.
But also by Unibet, but ostly by Bwin and Marathon, cause they are the bookies, with the earliest odds.
I have recognize it already for few years.

**HeeeHAWWWW** · 05-01-13, 12:26 PM

If pinnacle copied bwin they'd have gone bust years ago. Bwin's oddsmakers are clueless, there's no way you could run -102.5 lines on those.

**onemoregoal** · 05-01-13, 12:34 PM

Originally posted by hunter111

100%, but not only by bwin.
If Marathonbet is offering odds for a league, especiall handicaps, Pinnacle is copying it.
But also by Unibet, but ostly by Bwin and Marathon, cause they are the bookies, with the earliest odds.
I have recognize it already for few years.

Just because BWIN release odds early doesnt mean they are right.
BWIN release odds early, then realise their odds suck and change when the bigger books release the accurate price.
Nobody is copying BWIN. lol

**hunter111** · 05-01-13, 12:39 PM

Originally posted by HeeeHAWWWW

If pinnacle copied bwin they'd have gone bust years ago. Bwin's oddsmakers are clueless, there's no way you could run -102.5 lines on those.

But they aren`t.
Believe it or not, but that`s the truth, especially for european Leagues (Basketball).
Not for the NBA / NFL , NHL, MLB and also Ncaa sports, where limits are high

**OnkelChris** · 05-01-13, 12:44 PM

BWIN cannot afford paying customers. They need the money for sponsoring and tv spots.

**benandjerry** · 05-01-13, 01:03 PM

Nobody copies bwin. Terrible place these days.

I'd steer far clear of them is the only advice I can give. Doubt you'll have much luck with your case, even though I think its rediculous of a book to just void a bet due to it being priced on incorrect criteria when the price was in line with the actual market price anyway. Apart from being terrible in every aspect, they're also a shady company.

**hunter111** · 05-01-13, 01:16 PM

Originally posted by benandjerry

Nobody copies bwin..

I don`t care if you or anybody else believes it.
I know it for myselfe and i can prepare for Pinnacle, if i already know the odds and i am not suprised, what Pin will maybe offer.
Keep on believing, that Pin is the oddsmaker. The fewer who believes it, the better it is!!!

**BranchDavidian** · 05-01-13, 02:03 PM

Originally posted by SBR Forum

True but it's not as common of a market, for all we know Bwin priced it wrong and others followed suit and copied their odds.

Bwin doesn't like to discuss complaints with third parties but this doesn't sound like a case that he can win through eCogra or others, unless it is shown that bets were only voided for winners, which we don't know to be the case and frankly I doubt being so.

If allowed to do this, Bwin can go back on any game where it had more in losses than in wins, and make this sort of claim, and then return bets to the few losers but not pay the many winners. They are, in effect, free-rolling every single game that they put a line out for. Obviously, this can not be what the industry wants.

**hunter111** · 05-01-13, 02:38 PM

Originally posted by BranchDavidian

If allowed to do this, Bwin can go back on any game where it had more in losses than in wins, and make this sort of claim, and then return bets to the few losers but not pay the many winners. They are, in effect, free-rolling every single game that they put a line out for. Obviously, this can not be what the industry wants.

there is a difference between 2 industries.
The european and the rest of the world.
The european industry like Bwin don`t care about a good behaviour. Main thing is profit, without any consideration.
The industry from asia or Pin is different, aren`t regardless as european

**benandjerry** · 05-01-13, 03:50 PM

Originally posted by hunter111

I don`t care if you or anybody else believes it.
I know it for myselfe and i can prepare for Pinnacle, if i already know the odds and i am not suprised, what Pin will maybe offer.
Keep on believing, that Pin is the oddsmaker. The fewer who believes it, the better it is!!!

Look, I'm not saying pinny put a shitload of work into the tiny markets which they do offer (the ones where they offer a whopping 65 bucks early limits on), if you consider that so great then have fun with that. That said, I sincerly doubt anyone is copying bwin of all places, their early lines are more often than not off by A LOT.

**Sofy** · 05-02-13, 01:03 AM

Yea, the "Blue Chip" company behaves like a child in childrengarden... If the player makes a mistake - he should pay, when bwin makes a mistake - the player should play.. Is it a "blue chip" behavior???

28/04 I bet 60 USD on Okland - Baltimor over 8.5 - price 1.5. I won that bet but on the next day they cancelled it. After a couple days they wrote me next:

We regret to inform you that your bet "Baltimore Orioles at Oakland Athletics Totals Over 8,5" was cancelled as it was placed after the bet had already been closed due to a transmission and processing delay. Such delays can lead to late bets in isolated cases, which unfortunately cannot be completely avoided.

Your late bet has been corrected and your stake of 60,61 USD has already been transferred back to your account. We would kindly invite you to review this transaction in your account under "My account/Account movements"

Is it blue chip or fraud? If I lost my bet would they cancelled it, what do ypu think about??

**Foxy Dread** · 05-02-13, 04:52 AM

The lesson to learn here, is check details of the bookmakers market before betting. If the bookmaker has the incorrect number of rounds do not bet, if the match has already started and it´s not an in play bet, do not place a bet.

The other day I noticed a match with Marathon where one of the teams was named incorrectly, I could have bet the other team in the hope that they pay out if they win, but complained that they had the fixture incorrect if I lost, but what is the point.

**Foxy Dread** · 05-02-13, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

Just because BWIN release odds early doesnt mean they are right.
BWIN release odds early, then realise their odds suck and change when the bigger books release the accurate price.
Nobody is copying BWIN. lol

Of course bookmakers will change prices where there is a discrepancy in the market, otherwise the industry is just bleeding money to people arbing.

**onemoregoal** · 05-02-13, 06:56 AM

Well yes but that wasnt the point.
The point was that someone was suggesting Pinnacle copy Bwins odds.
If Bwin release early, they wait for 188bet etc - when Bwin realise their odds are shit then they change or cancel the market. On soccer, anyway.

**hunter111** · 05-02-13, 07:19 AM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

Well yes but that wasnt the point.
The point was that someone was suggesting Pinnacle copy Bwins odds.
If Bwin release early, they wait for 188bet etc - when Bwin realise their odds are shit then they change or cancel the market. On soccer, anyway.

no one is waiting for 188bet to copy their spreads or moneylines. 188bet is copying this stuff, especially for european market, as well as 12bet/sbobet (who only come out with odds, if the market has settled down).

**onemoregoal** · 05-02-13, 07:41 AM

Coming from the guy who suggested Pinnacle copy BWIN!

I said 188bet *etc*. 188bet are a big book, far bigger than your beloved BWIN. Anyway I am bored of this now, good luck.

**hunter111** · 05-02-13, 08:14 AM

Originally posted by onemoregoal

Coming from the guy who suggested Pinnacle copy BWIN!

I said 188bet *etc*. 188bet are a big book, far bigger than your beloved BWIN. Anyway I am bored of this now, good luck.

Coming from a guy, who don`t believe it.
U can laugh, u can cry, but i know it right...

**benandjerry** · 05-02-13, 01:45 PM

Originally posted by hunter111

no one is waiting for 188bet to copy their spreads or moneylines. 188bet is copying this stuff, especially for european market, as well as 12bet/sbobet (who only come out with odds, if the market has settled down).

I dont know specifically what markets you're talking about when you say European, if you're referring to football (soccer) then please hand me some of what you're smoking. Suggesting either pinny, ibc, 188b or sbo copies bwin, would, for lack of better words, be complete rubbish. Again, if you're talking about some small time womens curling pinny offer early 65 bucks limits on or rugby that 188bet offers 79 bucks on then there may be some substance to what you're saying, I honestly havent paid attention.

**hunter111** · 05-02-13, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by benandjerry

I dont know specifically what markets you're talking about when you say European, if you're referring to football (soccer) then please hand me some of what you're smoking. Suggesting either pinny, ibc, 188b or sbo copies bwin, would, for lack of better words, be complete rubbish. Again, if you're talking about some small time womens curling pinny offer early 65 bucks limits on or rugby that 188bet offers 79 bucks on then there may be some substance to what you're saying, I honestly havent paid attention.

As i have said above Basketball (europ. L.), not NHL, not MBL, not NFL, not NBA.

I am not betting on fotball (soccer) so i can`t say, if they are copying the odds, but i believe it , especially for the smaller leagues like Hungary, Poland .... .

IBCbet (12bet), sbotbet is copying odds from Pinny, after the market has settled down and Pinny is using stuff from a lot of other Bookmakers (f.e. Bet365, Marathonbet, Bwin,... ), but only for european Leagues

Bwt, i don`t smoke

**benandjerry** · 05-02-13, 04:53 PM

I've noticed sbo copy some (smaller) more obscure markets from pinny. Again, you're talking about markets where they dont take any money. Before pinny start taking even remotely close to significant money any line that in any form resembles anything bwin offers is long gone. Pinny's players, and their linemakers sharpen the lines. By the time they have decent limits on any market, their lines are relatively sharp.

There is a reason bwin lets you get down on a whopping low 2 fig sum max, globally across the board. Anybody who offered their lines, and accepted decent sums on it would be put out of business. Their lines are routinely off, by a lot.

**zizoudane10** · 05-02-13, 05:31 PM

Originally posted by benandjerry

I've noticed sbo copy some (smaller) more obscure markets from pinny. Again, you're talking about markets where they dont take any money. Before pinny start taking even remotely close to significant money any line that in any form resembles anything bwin offers is long gone. Pinny's players, and their linemakers sharpen the lines. By the time they have decent limits on any market, their lines are relatively sharp.

There is a reason bwin lets you get down on a whopping low 2 fig sum max, globally across the board. Anybody who offered their lines, and accepted decent sums on it would be put out of business. Their lines are routinely off, by a lot.

Right. That's it, end of story.

**stocky699** · 05-11-13, 08:56 AM

After quite a few phone calls and emails and getting very very angry, Bwin admitted fault and paid out...

I've now successfully withdrawn all my funds from the account (which took all of 9 days to appear in my bank account ffs!) and closed my account.

They did the right thing in the end but it was only because I wasn't prepared to let it go. Absolute robbing scum bags, steer well clear.