Ras 12/17

[Meega]

I don't get all the hype anyway.

im not saying the guy isnt good, but i also will say that I know regular forum posters at various sites that are every bit as good, and post their stuff for free year after year.

point is that idk why anyone would pay 1500 and up for any service, but to each his own

[Frats]

I don't get all the hype anyway.

im not saying the guy isnt good, but i also will say that I know regular forum posters at various sites that are every bit as good, and post their stuff for free year after year.

point is that idk why anyone would pay 1500 and up for any service, but to each his own

You know "regular forum posters" that have consistantly won at over a 55% clip against widely available lines over thousands of plays (and spanning many years)? We must be visiting different forums.

[pcbaseball]

Thanks for the kind words, KK. We work our butts off with very few breaks for these first 10 weeks of CBB to provide the most possible value for clients, so you can imagine how pleased we are to see you taking that very same value away from our clients by copy/pasting our work publically and adding to the already stiff competition for lines (before, during, and after movement, 1h's, 2h's, etc.).

[Meega]

You know "regular forum posters" that have consistantly won at over a 55% clip against widely available lines over thousands of plays (and spanning many years)? We must be visiting different forums.

absolutely. and yes, if you are looking here, at the pharmacy across the street, etc we are definitely talking different forums

[downsouth]

I don't get all the hype anyway.

im not saying the guy isnt good, but i also will say that I know regular forum posters at various sites that are every bit as good, and post their stuff for free year after year.

point is that idk why anyone would pay 1500 and up for any service, but to each his own

If you know regular forum posters that year in and year out produce the same results than by all means please share. Give me a couple guys that produce these results with this volume and I will be a multi millionaire within a few years.

[Shanefalco13]

I don't get all the hype anyway.

im not saying the guy isnt good, but i also will say that I know regular forum posters at various sites that are every bit as good, and post their stuff for free year after year.

point is that idk why anyone would pay 1500 and up for any service, but to each his own

Vegas books respects RAS and "gets the hype" enough to move the lines on every single pick, every single day, multiple points, within seconds... but you dont get the hype?
You think people should play random forum posters instead? lol wow I think Ill go with Vegas opinion instead of random, hating, internet tools.

[Shanefalco13]

I'll post them as well when i come across them. Greed is a bitch!

When you run a business you are supposed to be greedy. Otherwise you go out of business. At least he is not dishonest.

With that said, with prices that high you are going to alienate a certain clientele. And people will find a way to get it anyways. So may as well not sit there complaining. I wouldnt know who RAS was if it wasnt for forums like this one right here. And im sure its the same way for alot of people.

[cyrusii]

You got to understand where Edward-RAS is coming from though. It's one thing if his picks get posted here 30 minutes later, but another when KK posts them for us here right after release. Yesterday I got both RAS released lines just from this thread. If KK post them consistently, there wouldn't be much reason for me to pay for his picks.

I love it when KK posts them here though! For karma, KK might get more by posting and helping a bunch of guys who bet less than $200 a pick. I donno, there are moral problems with posting his picks with him being mad at it though.

Also, don't kid yourself. No forum poster hits 58% consistently year after year.

[USCPHILLYGUY]

Stop crying Edward. You are getting free advertising for your already over-priced product. Fukin touts are all the same, greedy bastards.

[cyrusii]

With that said, with prices that high you are going to alienate a certain clientele. And people will find a way to get it anyways. So may as well not sit there complaining. I wouldnt know who RAS was if it wasnt for forums like this one right here. And im sure its the same way for alot of people.

This is true, but if KK doesn't post them here as quick as he does, there is no other way for most people to get good lines. Also, I 100% agree that if not for forums like this, I wouldn't have heard of RAS, and I'm thinking that I should pay for his picks, and I probably will. At least starting with his WNBA.

[pcbaseball]

I think it's funny how Edward comes on here after he finally starts winning again after his recent slump. Where were you last week, Edward? He is good, but with the lines we get we are lucky to hit 55%.

And right now he is getting free advertisement. It all equals out. You all talk non stop about how great he is. I guaranteed most of his business that he gets comes from sites like this. I have recently been thinking about buying his picks even though we get them pretty early. But now there is no way in HE__ that I would. Edward coming on here crying like a little girl is just stupid!!!! You just not get how lucky you are Edward with sites like these that think you are so great. This is FREE advertisement!!!! I am just sicken.

[Frats]

...already over-priced product....

I'm interested in hearing what makes his product "over-priced"? If anything, I think that he should be charging more to try and limit the number of subscribers to make it easier for all to get in on the plays. I guess he's damned if you do, damned if you don't. He's "over-priced", and yet people complain that they can't get his lines since they move so quickly.

[CTOWNsCAPPIN]

I love hearing the touts whine and cry! At least Ferringo takes it all in stride. I have no sympathy for the whining tout

[USCPHILLYGUY]

Frats I get his published lines 90% of the time. I think it's in poor taste to come onto a forum you're getting free advertising on WHEN YOU ARE WINNING. Didn't hear from him last week at all when he struggled

[Shanefalco13]

I love hearing the touts whine and cry! At least Ferringo takes it all in stride. I have no sympathy for the whining tout

Ferrigno whines and calls posters thieves just as much. But I respect Ferrigno and Edward a hell of a lot more than these touts that hide behind fake names to promote their product. (indian Cowboy)

[CTOWNsCAPPIN]

Ferrigno whines and calls posters thieves just as much. But I respect Ferrigno and Edward a hell of a lot more than these touts that hide behind fake names to promote their product. (indian Cowboy)

I can agree to this!!

[Frats]

Frats I get his published lines 90% of the time. I think it's in poor taste to come onto a forum you're getting free advertising on WHEN YOU ARE WINNING. Didn't hear from him last week at all when he struggled

I probably wasn't talking to you specifically as much in talking in general. People are always complaining about the lines moving so quickly. RAS probably doesn't care at all about non-subscribers (ok, I'm sure that they don't care) not getting their lines, but I also see subscribers complain (ie GChild on here claims that he had a subscription and could never get the lines). I'm sure that Edward and his team have looked closely at their business model and have tried to optimize profits, but I'd think that they could double their prices and still get close to 50% of their subscribers to stay on board at the increased price (thus leading to less competition for lines).

[Robert Ferringo]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, there, homeboy. I don't whine about people posting my picks.

I whine because Arizona is up six, with the ball, and 54 seconds left, and they don't get it across half court on three straight possessions and screw one of my bets. Big difference.

I do not whine about people posting my picks. In fact, I have gone out of my way to say this, exactly, "It is what it is. I'm not going to cry about it." I've said that over and over because that's how I feel.

Yes, I have said that people are stealing my picks/intellectual property without paying for them. Because they are! But two things about that:

1. I've downloaded music or watched movies online without paying for them. That was stealing. But I did it. A lot of people do it. It is the way of the world and damn The Man! I'm not going to sit here and wag my finger at people when I've done the same thing. So I don't bother.

2. I only ever bring that up because it is the absolute height of hypocrisy that people would ever attack me or my site or the people that I work with for being "liars" and "thieves". (I'm not defending sociopaths like Root, or the other actual thieves, boiler room dicks, and scammers in this industry, I can only comment on the excellent company I work for.) When in the relationship between myself and posters of SBR forum, only one side has every "stolen" something from the other. I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

And, again, to Point No. 2: I don't bring that up because I'm trying to complain about it. I'm not. Like I said, it is what it is. But let's at least be adults about it, shall we?

I'm not defending Edward or coming in on his side, or whatever. Don't know the man and I didn't pick the fight. But once my name got dragged in I felt I needed to make sure we're clear on my stance. I can empathize with the frustration but, like I said, I'm not going to piss and moan about it. Life's too short.

[Shanefalco13]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, there, homeboy. I don't whine about people posting my picks.

I whine because Arizona is up six, with the ball, and 54 seconds left, and they don't get it across half court on three straight possessions and screw one of my bets. Big difference.

I do not whine about people posting my picks. In fact, I have gone out of my way to say this, exactly, "It is what it is. I'm not going to cry about it." I've said that over and over because that's how I feel.

Yes, I have said that people are stealing my picks/intellectual property without paying for them. Because they are! But two things about that:

1. I've downloaded music or watched movies online without paying for them. That was stealing. But I did it. A lot of people do it. It is the way of the world and damn The Man! I'm not going to sit here and wag my finger at people when I've done the same thing. So I don't bother.

2. I only ever bring that up because it is the absolute height of hypocrisy that people would ever attack me or my site or the people that I work with for being "liars" and "thieves". (I'm not defending sociopaths like Root, or the other actual thieves, boiler room dicks, and scammers in this industry, I can only comment on the excellent company I work for.) When in the relationship between myself and posters of SBR forum, only one side has every "stolen" something from the other. I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

And, again, to Point No. 2: I don't bring that up because I'm trying to complain about it. I'm not. Like I said, it is what it is. But let's at least be adults about it, shall we?

I'm not defending Edward or coming in on his side, or whatever. Don't know the man and I didn't pick the fight. But once my name got dragged in I felt I needed to make sure we're clear on my stance. I can empathize with the frustration but, like I said, I'm not going to piss and moan about it. Life's too short.

I basically feel what you and Edward both do are the same. Which is be semi upset that people are stealing your product. I can understand that. On the other hand it is a great form of advertisement and if you are not posted here, alot of the times you are not really relevant. And complaining about it really wont do much except turn people against you.

And I was saying it as a compliment, not an insult, as my respect has grown for you over the past few months since baseball, seeing you address issues head on. And seeing how some other touts go about their business in much shadier waysAnd I have no problem whatsoever with the way either of you handle it. I run a business. And my goal is to make money. Greed and ambition are closely related and I have no problem with people running a business in an honest way, wanting to make more money. .

[Robert Ferringo]

Hey, I gotcha. I don't think you were speaking from a place of malice. But less-knowing eyes will wander into these places and I just want them to have a clear picture of where I, for one, stand.

[sunzal]

Wow- this is a shock- I used to respect Edward because he gave good advice and was honest with people----aring but what a d-ck.....i've done a 180 on him now and will never defend him again...what an absolute cry frickin baby to come on here and complain about people sharing information- and that's all it is- there's no difference between someone telling us Texas A and M's ATS record and sharing Ed's picks----NEITHER of them are legally protected....and if they aren't legally protected, then for him to complain about it makes him an absolute baby.....it's such a tough world for that white male in the US isn't it RAS? i'll save my tears for people who deserve it

[Raiderguy101]

Agree with you guys. RAS is getting paid well. I forget what the cost of the season was, but let's say $3000. If he only had 100 paying clients, that's $300,000. That's a shit ton of money. But I would guess he has more then 100 paying clients so you're getting paid very well RAS.

[pcbaseball]

Edward works his butt off for 10 weeks with few breaks. Poor guy. Who here works 52 weeks with few breaks?

[Edward-RAS]

It is important to point out the obvious conflicts of interest (aside from good will, and violating the user agreement that results in loss of subscription with no warning or refund) that any subscriber/bettor faces by posting RAS plays on a forum.

So lets say we give out team A +4 today. After the release it moves to +3 or +2.5. You got your one bet in, but not for as much as you wanted, and nothing on the 1h or ML. The hundreds or thousands of people that accessed the play on forums make it less likely for the number to ever bounce back to 4 again, and even if it does get back to +4 for a brief period later in the day, now you are competing with 100x as many people when going for the +4, or the 1h line, money line, etc. So it isn't all about taking money from RAS, it is about taking it from their own pockets and each others.

Secondly, RAS plays will always get posted on forums as long as the service is available to the public, but when it starts getting blatant, such as how fast and consistently KK has been doing it (as if he isn't even betting the plays himself) then that is when we start considering changing our business model to something more private which would mean the plays would never hit forums, and that way everyone loses.

[Britton333]

BLUFF ALERT!!! BLUFF ALERT!!! BLUFF ALERT!!!

If there was a way for him to ensure his picks weren't posted, it would already be in effect.

It is important to point out the obvious conflicts of interest (aside from good will, and violating the user agreement that results in loss of subscription with no warning or refund) that any subscriber/bettor faces by posting RAS plays on a forum.

So lets say we give out team A +4 today. After the release it moves to +3 or +2.5. You got your one bet in, but not for as much as you wanted, and nothing on the 1h or ML. The hundreds or thousands of people that accessed the play on forums make it less likely for the number to ever bounce back to 4 again, and even if it does get back to +4 for a brief period later in the day, now you are competing with 100x as many people when going for the +4, or the 1h line, money line, etc. So it isn't all about taking money from RAS, it is about taking it from their own pockets and each others.

Secondly, RAS plays will always get posted on forums as long as the service is available to the public, but when it starts getting blatant, such as how fast and consistently KK has been doing it (as if he isn't even betting the plays himself) then that is when we start considering changing our business model to something more private which would mean the plays would never hit forums, and that way everyone loses.

[pcbaseball]

It is important to point out the obvious conflicts of interest (aside from good will, and violating the user agreement that results in loss of subscription with no warning or refund) that any subscriber/bettor faces by posting RAS plays on a forum.

So lets say we give out team A +4 today. After the release it moves to +3 or +2.5. You got your one bet in, but not for as much as you wanted, and nothing on the 1h or ML. The hundreds or thousands of people that accessed the play on forums make it less likely for the number to ever bounce back to 4 again, and even if it does get back to +4 for a brief period later in the day, now you are competing with 100x as many people when going for the +4, or the 1h line, money line, etc. So it isn't all about taking money from RAS, it is about taking it from their own pockets and each others.

Secondly, RAS plays will always get posted on forums as long as the service is available to the public, but when it starts getting blatant, such as how fast and consistently KK has been doing it (as if he isn't even betting the plays himself) then that is when we start considering changing our business model to something more private which would mean the plays would never hit forums, and that way everyone loses.

Edward is really pissy me off. What a jerk.

[sunzal]

oh come on Edward.....for years and years you've been saying that customers need to get the line immediately and if anyone plays another line it's not worth it bc the value is gone....you even keep a closing line record to prove your point....now you're acting as if the lines bounce back so customers can get your released line later in the day....when exactly did this start happening????? your paid subscribers either get the line at release or not....the amount of times it comes back to your released line after moving- and i mean all the way back, not just half a point, is miniscule---seriously, like what, twice a year....that's what you're crying about....that maybe your customers missed the line coming back 2 times this year because of a few 10 dollar bets by sbr readers.....no way- you're just in a crappy mood and making something out of nothing

[sunzal]

How bout making sure your subscribers aren't sportsbooks- you want to help your subscribers out then why don't you focus on that- because the lines move a lot faster than the money would dictate- so someone knows what your plays are....that hurts your paying customers a lot more than sbr bettors....and read the past forums here you'll see people on this site are not getting your lines....the average player on here misses it by at least 1.5 points....usually more....your paying clients are paying for those points, which is well worth it if they bet large enough (and you have said over and over that your picks are only worth it for large bettors)

[skyscrapers]

To Edward,

1) I'm fairly certain your paying clients are smart enough to know to put in there bets before they post on a forum so to take advantage of the lines before they move. If your client misses the release time than that's their loss...can't blame it on people posting on a free forum. I mean, if I'm going to fork out a few grands to purchase your plays I'm gonna take care of myself first. Wouldn't you?

2) May I ask how on earth are you going to change your whatever business models to keep your plays 'private'?
There is nothing private (nor there ever will be) in today's world of technology.

[pencilhead]

Whoa, whoa, whoa, there, homeboy. I don't whine about people posting my picks.

I whine because Arizona is up six, with the ball, and 54 seconds left, and they don't get it across half court on three straight possessions and screw one of my bets. Big difference.

I do not whine about people posting my picks. In fact, I have gone out of my way to say this, exactly, "It is what it is. I'm not going to cry about it." I've said that over and over because that's how I feel.

Yes, I have said that people are stealing my picks/intellectual property without paying for them. Because they are! But two things about that:

1. I've downloaded music or watched movies online without paying for them. That was stealing. But I did it. A lot of people do it. It is the way of the world and damn The Man! I'm not going to sit here and wag my finger at people when I've done the same thing. So I don't bother.

2. I only ever bring that up because it is the absolute height of hypocrisy that people would ever attack me or my site or the people that I work with for being "liars" and "thieves". (I'm not defending sociopaths like Root, or the other actual thieves, boiler room dicks, and scammers in this industry, I can only comment on the excellent company I work for.) When in the relationship between myself and posters of SBR forum, only one side has every "stolen" something from the other. I'll give you a hint: it wasn't me.

And, again, to Point No. 2: I don't bring that up because I'm trying to complain about it. I'm not. Like I said, it is what it is. But let's at least be adults about it, shall we?

I'm not defending Edward or coming in on his side, or whatever. Don't know the man and I didn't pick the fight. But once my name got dragged in I felt I needed to make sure we're clear on my stance. I can empathize with the frustration but, like I said, I'm not going to piss and moan about it. Life's too short.

I agree, but when your watching movies online or downloading music is not the same then when your purchasing a product. When i purchase something it's not mine. When i rent a movie i lend it out. When i purchase a movie i also lend it out. I do feel people should pay for the right to bitC h though. I wouldn't want to be a service and hear people whine when they don't pay!

[Watergate]

Interest.

[nap022]

So what's the play for Tuesday? haha

[sunzal]

The reason it is legal is because no one at SBR is SELLING picks- it really is that easy....the only potentially act that could be legally pursued it between Ed and the individual buying his picks and posting here....this would be for contract violations- a tort not a criminal act.....and even then i doubt he'd win- even if he did he would NEVER be able to prove damages....

But the argument that a released play that's shared with the public by someone not making a penny is somehow a violation of intellectual property laws is absolute nonsense----i'd love to see someone actually try to take it to court where words and laws have meaning- they'd be laughed out

[Edward-RAS]

I understand that the line is only available for a short period, but by posting on forums (even after the movement), clients are hurting their chances of an opportunity for similar and/or better lines later in the day, including derivatives. Not only do they descrease the chances of such opportunities, but they increase competition for them. These opportunites still are not that uncommon even now, but would be bigger, better, more common, and last longer if the information was not disseminated as much as it often is.

As for taking the service private (or not offering one at all), it is something we consider in the offseason every year. While what happens on forums is only a small factor in the decision making process, it is no bluff, and it certainly stops the plays from being posted on (see CBB totals this year).

I'm sure none of this is going to change anyone's mind, but it should be realized by all that any subscriber who posts RAS publicaly is hurting their own long term +EV, whether they realize it or not.

[Luvtht$]

ED this is a waste of ur time. Are u really expecting to convince KK to stop posting? Or others from betting your posted plays?

I myself am considering buying your plays next season bc of the games i lose not getting your posted line. Also i never heard of you until these forums. So next season, you have the posters to thank for my business. How many others have you gotten just like me? I'll bet u a subscription that effect has made you more money than you've saved btching on forums that people post ur plays and convining them not to post so other people will pay.