houston family refuses to pay tip

[baskets]

Why do we need to tip

Tips are included in that $10 sandwich and $8 beer.

Fukk them!

it's been brainwashed into American culture that tipping is required since it has become a cultural norm. in other countries around the world there is no such thing as a "tip" for a waiter.... that's their fukking job.

this is why it's comical for people to pull out their bullshit theories of 5%, 10%, 15%, etc, etc..... none of that shit even exists. you just pulled it out of your ass.

and in other countries they need the tips more than fukking fat Americans do.

[tony_come]

Basket!

Its a fukkin bullshit system

Fukk them

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I tip women well, men get the standard 15%.

Men shouldn't be waiting.

[CrazyCarl]

it's been brainwashed into American culture that tipping is required since it has become a cultural norm. in other countries around the world there is no such thing as a "tip" for a waiter.... that's their fukking job.

this is why it's comical for people to pull out their bullshit theories of 5%, 10%, 15%, etc, etc..... none of that shit even exists. you just pulled it out of your ass.

and in other countries they need the tips more than fukking fat Americans do.

The examples you cite either pay their servers at least minimum wage, or also have a built-in gratuity.

[yisman]

I'm against forced tipping, especially if it's 17% (!!!!! that's pretty damn high to be mandatory). I understand that some people are cheap and won't tip or leave low tips, but the point of tipping is that it's to be done in appreciation of good (or at least competent) service.

forcing everyone to pay 17% (in addition to the menu price and taxes) is absurd. why would servers care? Few are going to tip over 17%, so they could do what they want pretty much, unless they piss off so many customers that management gets complaints.


Here, it's the fault of the customers for buying the meal. I think it's common sense not to go to a place that has mandatory 17% tipping. Maybe other people don't mind paying that regardless of the service, but I would mind. They should've left before the meal.

[tony_come]

The examples you cite either pay their servers at least minimum wage, or also have a built-in gratuity.

You're crazy Carl!

[yisman]

http://www.la-fisherman.com/index.ph...=62&Itemid=148

it clearly states at the bottom of the menu that 17% is added to parties of 5 or more, thats the only reason i think the restaurant was right here. the customers got their way in the end because they gave this restaurant bad publicity over the incident.

I think the goal of the customers here was not to pay the tip so they didn't get their way.

[PickWinnerAllDay]

I live in a pretty rich area. When I was 16, I delivered pizza in the summer for 2 months... the job was brutal, I hated it, but I made on average about 25 bucks an hour with tips b/c people here just throw money around.

I know some RN's that make less than 25 bucks an hour so i found that funny. Someone could probably lead a pretty decent life on a pizza delivery job here.

[CrazyCarl]

what kills me is that just cause i order a $40 steak compared to a $10 burger, i have to tip x% on the $30 difference. theres not gonna be one fukkin iota of the quality of service just cause i ordered a steak.

That's valid, and you can certainly come up with your own system. Some may consider you cheap or whatever, but that's their problem.

[blackbeSSt]

I'm against forced tipping, especially if it's 17% (!!!!! that's pretty damn high to be mandatory). I understand that some people are cheap and won't tip or leave low tips, but the point of tipping is that it's to be done in appreciation of good (or at least competent) service.

forcing everyone to pay 17% (in addition to the menu price and taxes) is absurd. why would servers care? Few are going to tip over 17%, so they could do what they want pretty much, unless they piss off so many customers that management gets complaints.

i've never worked in the food industry, but from what i understand its so the 1 waiter having to handle such a large party will be compensated without fear of getting shafted.

with that said i have never seen a 5+ rule. most of the places i've seen are 8 or more people.

[baskets]

let me tell you a story

I was in another country and had this guy waiting on me. 3rd world country. The guy was on a "trail employment" basis. Ie, he doesn't get paid by the restaurant and tips are not part of the culture. Basically working 12 hours a day as a waiter for 2 weeks for the opportunity to be employed there. No pay. I tipped him pretty good... but that kind of employment game happens all the time. Poor guy deserved every fukking cent. (And, no, it wasn't a con b/c I'd go in there all the time)

In any event, I should backtrack for a second.... b/c some states in the US will take the wage out of the expected gratuity. The employee may make $2 or $3 hour... then live off the tips. This is different.

[dj_destroyer]

what kills me is that just cause i order a $40 steak compared to a $10 burger, i have to tip x% on the $30 difference. theres not gonna be one fukkin iota of the quality of service just cause i ordered a steak.

You're wrong.

The whole timing of your table becomes harder when there is a delicate piece of meat involved. It needs to be cooked perfectly. Your server controls this timing.

For every steak ordered, I hand polish your steak knife.

A burger may just be dropped off, no problem. A steak will be explained, letting the patron know how the steak is prepared and why it has been paired with the other items on the plate.

Here is the Angus Beef Tenderloin at my spot:



8 oz certified Angus Beef tenderloin aged 30 days. Hand rubbed with ancho- pepper then grilled to your specifications topped with a green peppercorn demi-glace and served with garlic mashed potatoes & seasonal vegetables.

[dj_destroyer]

it's been brainwashed into American culture that tipping is required since it has become a cultural norm. in other countries around the world there is no such thing as a "tip" for a waiter.... that's their fukking job.

this is why it's comical for people to pull out their bullshit theories of 5%, 10%, 15%, etc, etc..... none of that shit even exists. you just pulled it out of your ass.

and in other countries they need the tips more than fukking fat Americans do.

Move to those countries then you plug.

[blackbeSSt]

DJ, last i checked the waiter doesn't fukkin cut the meat, shine silverware, or prepare the food and garnish it with herb. he fukkin brings it to my table when its ready and refills my drink.

edit: just cause you tell me how the steak has been prepared and what what sorta mashed taters i got doesn't justify the x% tip on the $30 difference

[tony_come]

Why is the plate so large and my steak is so small

Fukk them

[Monitor-Tan]

Why is the plate so large and my steak is so small

Fukk them

[PickWinnerAllDay]

yeah that steak wouldn't fill up a grown man... what the fukk

[dj_destroyer]

DJ, last i checked the waiter doesn't fukkin cut the meat, shine silverware, or prepare the food and garnish it with herb. he fukkin brings it to my table when its ready and refills my drink.

I shine silverware and polish glassware... I garnish all dishes... I ensure mise en place...


This is why you should always tell your server why you tipped less than 15%... because you broke dikk fukks have no idea what we do.

If you're not willing to tip 15% then don't be a coward and try to escape... man up and tell them why! You'll likely get good reasons and you'll feel like a fukking goober.

[tony_come]

Tell the waiter/waitress

More meat and mashed potatoes or seasonal vegs...you fukk!

Fukk them

[RunningMan7]

First of all, it's the family's fault. usually such a policy will be mentioned in the menu.
I tip 15-30% depending on the size of the bill , coupons used, free water vs paid drinks(they still do a service with th free water just as much as if I ordered a drink off of which they make a commission, so I tip slightly higher percentage if my meal is small).

Having said that, while a tipping system does ensure slightly better service on the average, I don't think it is superior enough of a system to overcome these kind of headaches for all parties. Take blacks. The CW is that many blacks tip badly, but then what about the blacks who tip well. Since they tip at the end of service, they will probably get less than stellar service from a waiter who presumes that this person will tip badly. Then angered, the black person probably ends up paying a shitty tip. Who knows. Then you got the case of Europeans who are not used to tipping at every single place as those charges are built in.


CHICK FIL A is a great example of great service without the need for tipping. It all starts with management and how they treat the servers and the work conditions. It boils down to how they monitor the behavior and attitudes of their waiters. It comes down to paying more than lipservice to feedback you get via comment cards, verbal comments, body language cues you notice in the dining room, and yelp type reviews. A good management will know to weed out waiters and come up with good incentive bonuses to staff when the feedback is good in general.

[blackbeSSt]

I shine silverware and polish glassware... I garnish all dishes... I ensure mise en place...


This is why you should always tell your server why you tipped less than 15%... because you broke dikk fukks have no idea what we do.

If you're not willing to tip 15% then don't be a coward and try to escape... man up and tell them why! You'll likely get good reasons and you'll feel like a fukking goober.

but shouldn't you still fukkin shine my shit if i order a burger and garnish it with a fukkin pickle spear on top?

[dj_destroyer]

tony_***, monitor man and dickwinners;

Please continue going to Applebees, TGI Fridays and whatever other shit establishments you go to where they throw a flat mashed out flank steak and a mound of shitty sides.

People come to my restaurant to taste, enjoy some wine, maybe impress a broad.

Nothing you degens know anything about.

[tony_come]

Hey mr dj

Fukk them!

[dj_destroyer]

but shouldn't you still fukkin shine my shit if i order a burger and garnish it with a fukkin pickle spear on top?

No garnish on our burgers (kitchen adds all the trimmings)... no steak knife to go with your burg.

[blackbeSSt]

No garnish on our burgers (kitchen adds all the trimmings)... no steak knife to go with your burg.

since you're in the food business are you agreeing that you should tip based on services received and not the bottom line?

[RunningMan7]

I do think services received is better than bottom line. But then that is theoretical. Imagine the confusion in practice. People weighing how much to pay for water versus a burger versus steak versus a mixed drink versus a beer.

A tip percentage is simpler. If you think you are ordering a lot of pricey items that is easier to serve, tip only 15%. i do that on 100 dollar plus bills that have a lot of those high margin items. But if I go to a restaurant and have a burger and water. Then I tip at least 20% or more.

That is why I think tips should be reserved for only great service where the restaurant factors in prices for standard service so they can pay the waiters a semi decent wage. If the service is bad, leave a comment on the bill. If the restaurant does nothing about it, then they lose your business. That is good enough motivation for a restaurant management to ensure their waiters give good service.

[Bill Dozer]

It's easy to be a cheap ass and just say "Service was bad" as an excuse. The problem arises when servers get lazy because they know they're getting paid regardless. Could go either way.

I do like how the restaurant made them pay. Good to see they have the staff's back. Pretty rare.

Agree. The service has to earn it if you are calling it a tip. From Wikipedia:

A tip (also called a gratuity) is a sum of money tendered to certain service sector workers for a service performed or anticipated. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though a tip is seldom required, and its amount is usually at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected is a serious faux pas, and may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered at best odd and at worst condescending or demeaning. In some circumstances, such as with U.S. government workers, receiving of tips is illegal.^[1]

If they call it a service fee. That's different. You dont have the option of not paying the delivery fee when your pizza comes. It's part of the charge.

In today's society, I think 15% is pretty much required and is the worst you give if you get bad service. The next 10% range IMO is where you get to decide. If you are going back there and don't want special sauce you leave 20%

[thetrinity]

i agree with what a lot of you guys have been saying about the 5 person rule at this place, it seems ridiculous the industry standard is around 8 and 15%. tip is short for "to insure promptness" which defeats the purpose of a built in gratuity,but if you are in someones house, you follow their rules.i cant believe the manager let this get so out of hand though, hopefully hes been fired already.

[CrazyCarl]

You're wrong.

The whole timing of your table becomes harder when there is a delicate piece of meat involved. It needs to be cooked perfectly. Your server controls this timing.

For every steak ordered, I hand polish your steak knife.

A burger may just be dropped off, no problem. A steak will be explained, letting the patron know how the steak is prepared and why it has been paired with the other items on the plate.

Here is the Angus Beef Tenderloin at my spot:



8 oz certified Angus Beef tenderloin aged 30 days. Hand rubbed with ancho- pepper then grilled to your specifications topped with a green peppercorn demi-glace and served with garlic mashed potatoes & seasonal vegetables.

You're talking about something a bit different -- this is obviously a really nice restaurant you're talking about, so some of the things you bring up don't apply in many other situations. That steak looks delicious though. Too bad I'll need three of them . Looks more like 4oz than 8oz to me.

Most restaurants don't share the tips with the kitchen which often are the people are are timing it almost entirely, and not the server.

In response to that crappy meat comment (I forget who said it, possibly you) I've been to "nice" steakhouses who cook steak horribly, I've had delicious $12 steaks at "inferior" places, my dad cooks steaks very simply and has been using the same methods for 30 years and it makes even the not super-expensive steaks taste good.

[CrazyCarl]

Agree. The service has to earn it if you are calling it a tip. From Wikipedia:

A tip (also called a gratuity) is a sum of money tendered to certain service sector workers for a service performed or anticipated. Such payments and their size are a matter of social custom. Tipping varies among cultures and by service industry. Though a tip is seldom required, and its amount is usually at the discretion of the patron being served, in some circumstances failing to give an adequate tip when one is expected is a serious faux pas, and may be considered very miserly, a violation of etiquette, or unethical. In some other cultures or situations, giving a tip is not expected and offering one would be considered at best odd and at worst condescending or demeaning. In some circumstances, such as with U.S. government workers, receiving of tips is illegal.^[1]

If they call it a service fee. That's different. You dont have the option of not paying the delivery fee when your pizza comes. It's part of the charge.

In today's society, I think 15% is pretty much required and is the worst you give if you get bad service. The next 10% range IMO is where you get to decide. If you are going back there and don't want special sauce you leave 20%

I'm usually fine with links to wikipedia articles, but this doesn't really apply to the legality of the issue at all.

[blackbeSSt]

...

[dj_destroyer]

since you're in the food business are you agreeing that you should tip based on services received and not the bottom line?

Yes. As some people have mentioned in here, whether a drink is free like water or if it's a $8 martini, there is still a service involved (polishing glassware, garnishing, bringing it, general service). But most people are idiots and don't think like this. They don't know what good or bad service is.

For them, we say tip 15% on the bottomline and lets just both move on.

I tip based on service and am not afraid to give a bad tip. I explain why though. Servers are generally understanding and apologetic. Every once in awhile one bitchy server will challenge me in which case I completely school them and embarrass them in front of their colleagues.

No matter what, as a server, you're a "yes man".

[dj_destroyer]

In response to that crappy meat comment (I forget who said it, possibly you) I've been to "nice" steakhouses who cook steak horribly, I've had delicious $12 steaks at "inferior" places, my dad cooks steaks very simply and has been using the same methods for 30 years and it makes even the not super-expensive steaks taste good.

Agreed.

But you're not the one trying to say that the steak pictured wouldn't be amazing because it is. The guys who complained are the guys who think a steak's size is what matters most.

[CrazyCarl]

Agreed.

But you're not the one trying to say that the steak pictured wouldn't be amazing because it is. The guys who complained are the guys who think a steak's size is what matters most.

It looks extremely small to me, maybe it's just been too long since I've had a 6oz etc., but it looks 4oz. With that being said, it looks perfect, lol.

[William Walters]

dj.......you sound like an excellent waiter pal. Next time I'm near Sizzler I'll stop in for a fine dining experience. I love me a shiny steak knife.