[JohnGalt2341]

Daniel taking care of business and making easy work of his division.

Section #7: completed
Player's Name	Score	Games com pleted	Avg score per game cmpltd
DanielEspinosa (winner)	8	4	2.00
§Hugolin	4	4	1.00
§ko	0	4	0.00

Nice work! Let's hope we don't see each other until the finals. The next round looks like it's going to be a blast. It's been a while since I've played many of these players. I'm really hoping blanko can pull a win vs Toptal and advance as well.

[Daniel Espinosa]

Yeah thanks!

I think I struggled a little at the beggining (my early game suck*s) against Hugolin but then gained some unbalanced edges and managed to come back.

Round 2 is going to be 3 groups of 3 (assuming there are 9 players)?

[JohnGalt2341]

Yeah thanks!

I think I struggled a little at the beggining (my early game suck*s) against Hugolin but then gained some unbalanced edges and managed to come back.

Round 2 is going to be 3 groups of 3 (assuming there are 9 players)?

I noticed you were struggling with Hugolin a bit. I didn't think you would be able to sweep him after that, but you did. Well done! My openings are definitely the weakest part of my game as well so... sorry I can't help you much there... lol. Generally in the openings I just try to keep my pieces inside of my opponents. And if you can maintain fewer pieces than your opponents it's usually helpful as well. I usually just try do a balance of these strategies.

If 9 people advance to the next round I think they will have one division of 4 and one of 5. I'm not positive about this though. I'd be fairly surprised if there wasn't at least 1 tie for first in the 1st round. I'd love to see 10 people advance and have 2 divisions of 5 people in the 2nd round.

In the last tourney we didn't get to see Toptal nor Ryan play in the 2nd round but I suspect we will this time. I'm really curious to see how these guys(with plenty of Hexversi experience) will do against some of the best regular Reversi players(but not much Hexversi experience) on this site. This should be a lot of fun!

[JohnGalt2341]

Yeah thanks!

I think I struggled a little at the beggining (my early game suck*s) against Hugolin but then gained some unbalanced edges and managed to come back.

Round 2 is going to be 3 groups of 3 (assuming there are 9 players)?

I just went through both of your games vs Hugolin. Your openings aren't much worse than my own. And your endgame is coming along very nicely. Very slick.

If you can hang with the top players in the first half of the games in the next round, I like your chances for pulling off some upsets.

I took a look at Hugolin's stats, and aside from Daniel sweeping him in the tourney, I noticed that the last 3 players to beat him in the Ladder were:

07/23/20 12:01:00	Hexversi	43	DanielEspinosa	green
07/14/20 17:17:00	Hexversi	41	Holden2341	purple
07/08/20 16:16:00	Hexversi	43	blankoblanco	purple

This poor guy is taking a beating from the SBR guys... lol.

[Daniel Espinosa]

I always try to do that, but somehow my opponents end up with all their chips inside. I'm not even sure what I'm doing wrong. Probably most of these guys have played a lot of Reversi and have some edge at the beggining because of that. Good news is I've got like one month to practice until Round 2 starts!

[blankoblanco]

I always try to do that, but somehow my opponents end up with all their chips inside.

Same!

And oof, I threw away a game vs dmoresco because I overlooked a move. Gonna be pretty much impossible to get out now. Slumping big-time

[JohnGalt2341]

Same!

And oof, I threw away a game vs dmoresco because I overlooked a move. Gonna be pretty much impossible to get out now. Slumping big-time

I see you got 2 interesting games going vs dmoresco...

[blankoblanco]

I see you got 2 interesting games going vs dmoresco...

Are they? Pretty sure one is completely won and the other is completely lost. Could've been more interesting if I wasn't playing terribly right now

[JohnGalt2341]

Are they? Pretty sure one is completely won and the other is completely lost. Could've been more interesting if I wasn't playing terribly right now

Well... it looks likes you'll win the game where you are Purple for sure but the other one looks like it's still in question unless I am missing something. One reason why I'm not a big fan of the Closed 2 is because they rarely help your endgame. I noticed in the last tourney that Jon played a lot of Closed 2's and he did it really well but I'm just not a big fan of them but I do play them on occasion but most of the time I think there is a better way to play the side. I think there's a chance that dmoresco could make a bad play in this game still and you might be able to pull it off but you are probably right I suppose.

[blankoblanco]

Right, I think I'm relying on him misplaying in the game where I'm green but I guess it's possible (and it's also possible I'm wrong since it's a bit complicated)

Yeah, I've been trying out a lot of closed 2s which is something I rarely did during my ladder win streak. Small sample so far, but it has definitely put me in some awkward spots. I can see why you're not a fan

[blankoblanco]

I see you got 2 interesting games going vs dmoresco...

Maybe the green game was more interesting than I thought

I still think maybe dmoresco should've won if he didn't let me cut through the diagonal to get the right-side corner since that area was my achilles heel, but I'm not even sure about that anymore. Every time I think I have something figured out in this game it turns out there are more variables and changing pieces involved than I thought. Everything from move 32 onward was a bit weird, but I think I gave myself the best chance I could even if it relied on him making a mistake

I've also got another banger of a game going against jammer as purple

[JohnGalt2341]

Maybe the green game was more interesting than I thought

I still think maybe dmoresco should've won if he didn't let me cut through the diagonal to get the right-side corner since that area was my achilles heel, but I'm not even sure about that anymore. Every time I think I have something figured out in this game it turns out there are more variables and changing pieces involved than I thought. Everything from move 32 onward was a bit weird, but I think I gave myself the best chance I could even if it relied on him making a mistake

I've also got another banger of a game going against jammer as purple

Nice work on that game vs dmoresco! He definitely played it wrong but you played it quite beautifully. On move #33 Purple should be thinking about a way to gain a move. I think I would have played the left hand side. But the way he played it he actually lost a move in that lower right hand corner. And then when you used your saved move at the perfect time he was pretty much done.

I must say... you get yourself into a lot of incredibly complex games that hurt my brain... lol. I don't see a lot of these situations in my games because I'm pretty stubborn about the way I play the sides. But these are great for me to learn from. Since you win nearly all of your close games it must mean you're doing something right.

Your early side-play is still sort of sloppy but if you could improve on that I think you could compete with just about anyone. I'm really hoping you can pull a win vs Toptal and hopefully win that game vs jammer. Having at least 2 SBR guys in the finals would be awesome.

[blankoblanco]

I completely agree that my early side-play is bad and puts me in bad situations. It's something I've been testing and trying out things with. I think I did it again in my green game vs toptal, that left side piece sucks, but I kinda had to see it in action and think about the follow-up plays to realize how problematic it is. That's without even getting into the ridiculous number of pieces I have in that game, which tends to be a bad sign early. Just thought that his pieces don't seem to be positioned in great spots so maybe I can make it work somehow

There were a few things I wanted to pick your brain about with regard to sides, but dunno if I should do it in this thread or the older one or PM

[JohnGalt2341]

I completely agree that my early side-play is bad and puts me in bad situations. It's something I've been testing and trying out things with. I think I did it again in my green game vs toptal, that left side piece sucks, but I kinda had to see it in action and think about the follow-up plays to realize how problematic it is. That's without even getting into the ridiculous number of pieces I have in that game, which tends to be a bad sign early. Just thought that his pieces don't seem to be positioned in great spots so maybe I can make it work somehow

There were a few things I wanted to pick your brain about with regard to sides, but dunno if I should do it in this thread or the older one or PM

Any of the above is okay with me. Whichever you prefer.

[JohnGalt2341]

There were a few things I wanted to pick your brain about with regard to sides, but dunno if I should do it in this thread or the older one or PM

I was looking at your game vs Toptal where you are Purple. Up to move #15. I noticed you had 2 Closed 2's(or will soon) so I reviewed the game. Those Closed 2's in that game are great examples of when they Can or Should be played. This is exactly how a Closed 2 should be played because they can't be exploited and you get 2 moves to none. This is how Jon was doing in it in some of his games. It's sort of hard to explain but these types of Closed 2's are really difficult to exploit because of how they are achieved. I'm sure you can see the difference now.

This is also an example of how Toptal can be outplayed on the sides. After you moved #9 Toptal should have taken the spot just left of what you took on your next move. He would have been far better off because he would have denied you that extra move. I think Toptal is probably a better player than me in most games through 2 to 3 rounds but he almost never outplays me in the 4th and the 5th because of all the side-play and endgame in general. Whether you knew it or not you exposed some of Toptal's mediocre side-play in this game. Unfortunately the rest of his game is so damn good. I think you got a shot in this game BECAUSE you burned him on those Closed 2's.

Even if you can give Toptal a run in this game it would be impressive. This guy has a shitload of experience and he doesn't lose often. He only has 17 legit Hexversi tournament losses and 324 wins. And he's only been swept in 2 games by me and 1 other player. I think I probably want you to win a game vs Toptal more than you do... I really wanted my nephew to have to play him as well. My nephew actually has a better record vs me in Hexversi than Toptal but I would definitely make Toptal the favorite if they played.

[blankoblanco]

This is how Jon was doing in it in some of his games. It's sort of hard to explain but these types of Closed 2's are really difficult to exploit because of how they are achieved. I'm sure you can see the difference now.

Yeah, I do think I'm starting to get the difference

Even if you can give Toptal a run in this game it would be impressive. This guy has a shitload of experience and he doesn't lose often. He only has 17 legit Hexversi tournament losses and 324 wins. And he's only been swept in 2 games by me and 1 other player. I think I probably want you to win a game vs Toptal more than you do...

No pressure! Tbh I really doubt I take a win, especially since the green game already seems doomed (not that it's a board state I've seen before). Would be really cool to pull it off though

One very basic question to start with: should you pretty much always avoid taking the side-piece next to a corner as the first move on a side? (For clarification, what I did in my green game against Toptal on the left side). That seems bad to me now because it limits how I can play in that area, since I don't want purple to eventually gain a move on me by eventually getting the two spots next to the other corner; (an example of this would be what you did on the bottom side in your current ladder game against Ryan)

Just wondering if I'd be better off basically never taking that piece first, at least without some sort of particular setup or good reason behind it. Or is it more complicated than that? It often seems to temporarily gain a move but causes trouble later

[JohnGalt2341]

Yeah, I do think I'm starting to get the difference



No pressure! Tbh I really doubt I take a win, especially since the green game already seems doomed (not that it's a board state I've seen before). Would be really cool to pull it off though

One very basic question to start with: should you pretty much always avoid taking the side-piece next to a corner as the first move on a side? (For clarification, what I did in my green game against Toptal on the left side). That seems bad to me now because it limits how I can play in that area, since I don't want purple to eventually gain a move on me by eventually getting the two spots next to the other corner; (an example of this would be what you did on the bottom side in your current ladder game against Ryan)

Just wondering if I'd be better off basically never taking that piece first, at least without some sort of particular setup or good reason behind it. Or is it more complicated than that? It often seems to temporarily gain a move but causes trouble later

Not necessarily. In my current ladder game vs Steve in NY here's an example of when it is okay to take that first spot.

It's perfectly acceptable for Green to grab that #2 spot for this move because even if Purple tries to force an unbalanced edge it's going to be very difficult to exploit and it means Green would get 2 moves to 1. If Purple instead chooses to grab the spot just right of #1(this would be a better move for Purple if Green takes #2) the side will essentially be a draw.

Although move #2 is a perfectly good move for Green above I didn't move there because at the moment I feel that #6 is a better move for now. But on Purples very next move he made that #2 spot even better to take and I took it on my next move after I took #6.

So much of this is so difficult for me to explain. There are moves that should or shouldn't be made on the sides and I rarely ever see a player go an entire game without making at least 1 mistake. In the majority of my games I let my opponent take side pieces before I do. The reason why I do this is because so many players play the sides incorrectly... even really good players. And once they make a mistake... that's when I'll play the side and exploit their mistake. In many of my games I'm just waiting around for this to happen... and it almost always does. And once it happens you can usually take control of the game if you are not too far behind or at the very least you should set yourself up nicely for the endgame.

When you play that first spot you mostly just have to be aware of a few things... Will this lead to an unbalanced edge for me? OR, Will I be creating more moves for my opponent than I am getting? If the answer to either of these questions is Yes you might want to reconsider your move. My feeling is... most players are far to eager to get side pieces. And because of this they make mistakes. When I'm in a tight game I'm usually just hoping that the board will fill up enough so we can start playing the sides. Once the sides start getting played... I can almost always exploit mistakes that are made. But usually... you have to be fairly patient to exploit many of these mistakes.

One of my favorite movies is Moneyball. The way Billy Beane(Brad Pitt) and Pete(Jonah Hill) did things is very similar to how I try to play Hexversi. Patience and efficiency are paramount. One of the main things they wanted their players to do was just to see more pitches. This does a few things, #1 You swing at less bad pitches(hopefully). And #2... every pitch that you see you are wearing down the pitcher... which should... in theory be helpful to your teammates... especially if that pitcher is still in the game during the late innings. Scott Hatteburg was a master at this. He's not a household name but I really admired his style. He made the pitchers work to get him out. He didn't swing at many bad pitches. He waited for pitchers to make the mistakes.

Much of how I play Hexversi isn't terribly complex... it's just being able to identify mistakes and then being able to make my opponents pay for those mistakes.

If a guy like Toptal ever discovered these threads... I may never beat him again... lol.

[blankoblanco]

I appreciate you attempting to explain all this stuff to me, I know it's not the easiest to do

I've definitely noticed you usually tend to not be the first player to take a side, which is very different from how I've been playing. It's probably just something I default to because sometimes I'm not able to see the best move in the middle of the board, so it's my way of stalling until hopefully they give me a move that I know is good

I can see why 2 works in your game because of how the board is set up for it. In my green game against Toptal, would you say mine is a mistake because there's no set-up (no other pieces adjacent to that edge)?

[JohnGalt2341]

I appreciate you attempting to explain all this stuff to me, I know it's not the easiest to do

I've definitely noticed you usually tend to not be the first player to take a side, which is very different from how I've been playing. It's probably just something I default to because sometimes I'm not able to see the best move in the middle of the board, so it's my way of stalling until hopefully they give me a move that I know is good

I can see why 2 works in your game because of how the board is set up for it. In my green game against Toptal, would you say mine is a mistake because there's no set-up (no other pieces adjacent to that edge)?

I think trying to explain strategies has made me a better player. Plus it's an ego trip for me to see you guys come in and beat some very experienced players lol... I was looking at your ladder wins and the wins over aragon and sht10 impressed me the most because aragon has been playing Hexversi for more than a decade with over 800 games and you beat them with approximately 2 months experience. Similar story with sht10 although he's only moderately experienced with Hexversi he's still won well over 100 Reversi related tourneys.

On your game vs Toptal where you are Green... well.. first off I wanted to point out what I consider to be a mistake by Toptal. This is a very common mistake that i see players make. On move #10 he would have been far better off waiting for the move just right of where he moved to become available. He was already outplaying you quite a bit by move #10 so it probably wasn't going to matter but I never would have went where he did. Those hard to get unbalanced edges aren't worth it most of the time. I would have waited for the other spot to become available.

For move #12 you definitely should not have moved there. In these types of situations your goal should be to only flip 1 or 2 pieces to get that spot you took. I'm nearly certain I would have waited until I was only going to flip 1 piece to get that spot. You would have been far better off picking off those Purples on the right side one at a time starting at the top. I think you still could have beat him at this point. I think he would have been forced to give you some good moves for several moves in a row had you played it that way. But right now... you'd need a lot of help. Even if you are getting slaughtered I don't recommend resigning because you never know if Toptal will time-out. He's done it before.


Your other game vs Toptal where you are Purple is a good one! This is a really fun one for me to watch because I rarely have 2 Closed 2's next to each other like this but this is how it should be done. Jon has success with this and I think you could give Toptal some trouble here. This is another one where it looks like Toptal is going to have to give you multiple good moves in a row... unless I am missing something. The low move count in this game is interesting as well. I almost always have at least 8 moves or many more in my games around this time. But you guys both have under 8 moves each. This is fairly rare unless it's really late in a game. He's got 6 and you've got 7.. And I like your positioning here... without giving away too much strategy... I think you could possibly control the game from here.

[JohnGalt2341]

Tourney Update:

5 Sections are completed with 4 remaining.

Section #1
It looks as if Sweaty Snooker Balls(formerly The Burglar) is going to pull off what I consider to be sort of an upset over FGYTPeti. The games aren't over yet but I think Sweaty is going to sweep the division.

In Section #4
Toptal is having a hell of a time here. It looks as if he's got 3 wins in the bag but I think he could be in trouble in the really interesting game vs blanko. And he's got 2 awkward games vs jammer that I think could test his finishing abilities. blanko needs only a single win to secure a spot in the next round but Toptal will get knocked out if both blanko and jammer beat him in a game. Taking down a seasoned veteran like Toptal in the first round would be impressive!

Section #6
Looks like a lock for Ryan

Section #8
Looks like a lock for 2PI76F

[JohnGalt2341]

The next round of the tourney is going to be fierce! Lots of good players that have never played each other before. There's 2 players advancing that I'VE never even played before. And there are 2 other really good players that I've only played twice and that was nearly 3 years ago.

I've been checking in on blanko's game vs Toptal. I think this is my favorite game of this tourney so far. The games between Sweaty SB and FGY in Section #1 were also both excellent games. Round #2 is going to have quite a few strong players. Going undefeated in the next round is going to be tough, for anyone. I also wouldn't be surprised if nobody goes 0-6 in the next round. Should be fun!

[blankoblanco]

Toptal has been playing just 1 or 2 moves a day, the tension is killing me!

[JohnGalt2341]

Toptal has been playing just 1 or 2 moves a day, the tension is killing me!

I hear that! This game is great! I love all the different looks that I don't normally see. It's like a Hexversi jungle gym for my brain... lol. This game is quite beautiful really.

These next few moves are going to be a real test of your skills. I don't see any scenario where you aren't completely in the drivers seat here.

I want to do a 25 Point Hexversi Challenge from a move several moves back. It won't affect the game now. In some of these spots there isn't a legal move, so just ignore those for now.

Where would Holden2341 have moved if he was Purple?

[Daniel Espinosa]

When I played Toptal he only made one move per day. Not even once he made 2 moves. Blanko has already 2 corners, how can Toptal overcome that? Am I missing something?

Porobably 13 is a good move, if he decides to take the wall is no big deal imho.

[blankoblanco]

I remember I moved 8 here but I could've taken that later.

This could be wrong, but during the game I thought I should've taken 16 here, which is the play I ended up making a turn later

I think we should be fighting over getting 2 out of the 3 moves in that little triangle. If Toptal took 16, he would've gained a move in this area, right? I didn't see this until 1 move too late though

Or at least that's my evaluation, I could be missing something though

[JohnGalt2341]

When I played Toptal he only made one move per day. Not even once he made 2 moves. Blanko has already 2 corners, how can Toptal overcome that? Am I missing something?

Porobably 13 is a good move, if he decides to take the wall is no big deal imho.

I remember I moved 8 here but I could've taken that later.

This could be wrong, but during the game I thought I should've taken 16 here, which is the play I ended up making a turn later

I think we should be fighting over getting 2 out of the 3 moves in that little triangle. If Toptal took 16, he would've gained a move in this area, right? I didn't see this until 1 move too late though

Or at least that's my evaluation, I could be missing something though

#13 may have worked and I'm nearly certain #16 would have worked, as well as #8. But I REALLY like #6 here. And now you could save that #8 move for later... or maybe on your next move.


Now, that I'm looking at it more closely... I think you are right. I think you would have been better off taking #16 first and saving that #6 and #8 combo for another move, possibly on your next turn.

I mostly just wanted to point out what a great move #6 was... but yeah... I think moving to #16 first is probably better. In really close games, the order in which you make your moves is paramount.

I always love playing in games like these(when I'm ahead and just have to finish) because there is almost always a creative way to finish off your opponent... you just have to find it.

[blankoblanco]

I think with 6 I was just worried if I would eventually be forced to make a move that allowed him to cut through and take that corner. But you're probably right that in this case I could avoid doing so without much issue because of the move advantage. I definitely like making moves like those but they can feel a bit risky at times

[JohnGalt2341]

I think with 6 I was just worried if I would eventually be forced to make a move that allowed him to cut through and take that corner. But you're probably right that in this case I could avoid doing so without much issue because of the move advantage. I definitely like making moves like those but they can feel a bit risky at times

Yeah, for a lot of these types of moves they usually just barely work because you have just enough good moves to pull it off or they just barely don't work. I call these types of plays "Confident Plays". The 6x6 player, Came Dude was a master of these types of plays. And it was nearly impossible to beat him unless you made these types of plays as well.

Toptal is also very good at these types of plays. By move #16 in your current game you were already outplaying him and on the judges scorecard you were ahead by a move. Toptal is wise enough to realize that in order to get back into this game he's going to need to gain some moves. I would call his move to that lower right corner a Confident Play. I think he was fully aware that he wasn't going to be able to stop you from getting that corner. He didn't care because he was able to get 3 out of the 4 spots in that section. Unfortunately for him, it looks like it's not going to be enough to overcome his poor side-play earlier in the game.

I'm really curious to see how you are going to do this. There's so many different paths that can be taken here and I don't think all of them will necessarily work. And some will definitely work better than others.

[JohnGalt2341]

Tourney Update:

8 of the 9 sections are completed. I don't mean to count my chickens but, much to my delight I'm pretty sure section #4 is going to see both Toptal and blanko advance. I won't congratulate blanko just yet...

Unless something strange happens, the Tournament Section winners will be:

1. 2021(formerly The Burglar)
2. jook
3. Holden2341
4. blankoblanco*
Toptal*
5. Bernard
SnazzyD
6. Ryan
7. DanielEspinosa
8. 2PI76F
9. urantian

That's a good looking group of players right there. This next round should be awesome. If there are 11 players, I think there will be 3 Sections. Two with 4 people and one with 3. Ideally, we'll all be in separate Sections but that's probably unlikely.

Section Prediction Point Standings after Round 1:

1. Daniel 7
1. blanko 7
3. JohnGalt 6(maitreg timed-out a game vs a weak opponent. Damn you!! hehe.. At least he beat Ryan a game)
4. Housemoney 5

Looks like it will be at least another week before Round 2 starts. Let's get a move on Toptal!!

[JohnGalt2341]

Standings for most games won by an SBR Player:

1. blankoblanco 5*
2. DanielEspinosa 4
3. Housemoney 0

[blankoblanco]

Way to jinx me, John!

Jk, I got this. But I'll wait until it's official for the praise and adulation

[blankoblanco]

I officially closed the deal and beat Toptal as purple!! Unless he somehow times out in one of his other games our group will end in a tie as John said

Man, I had my doubts about getting out of that group. The fact that I blew my green game against Toptal almost immediately really put the pressure on me

It's pretty awesome that all 3 of us made it out of the first round

[Daniel Espinosa]

Congrats bro! Really impressive!

[JohnGalt2341]

I officially closed the deal and beat Toptal as purple!! Unless he somehow times out in one of his other games our group will end in a tie as John said

Man, I had my doubts about getting out of that group. The fact that I blew my green game against Toptal almost immediately really put the pressure on me

It's pretty awesome that all 3 of us made it out of the first round

Nice work!!! I never had any doubt(my pick says otherwise), well maybe a little.. hehe. I must commend you for picking yourself to win that Section... that takes balls. And to beat a guy like Toptal you usually have to play him fairly confidently(with balls). If you don't think you can beat him.... you won't.

I must admit.... once it got to a certain point in the game(just before midway) I knew you could beat him if you played it right, but I didn't know if you had enough experience to pull it off. There were a few moves where I was thinking "oh man... he could really F this up if he plays it wrong." But you finished him off quite beautifully. Great move management. Holding a guy like Toptal to under 20 is very impressive. You can take a look at any of Toptal's Hexversi losses(completed games) and they are almost never this lopsided. I think I've only held Toptal to under 20 once... but I'm not positive about this.

I think we can all probably expect some really challenging games in the next round. If either of you guys has any questions about any types of moves feel free to ask. In this game with blanko vs Toptal I kept on thinking.... "Have I showed them how to play positions like this? Will he know how to play this?". I know there are a ton of different types of positions that I haven't exactly talked about so... fill free to ask.

This next round should be great!

[blankoblanco]

Thanks guys!!

Oh, and one sort of interesting thing I noticed: between all the group winners (I'm including Toptal here) there were a total of 5 losses, and all of them were on green side. Could be mostly coincidental given the small sample or side might be a bigger advantage than I thought