[thetrinity]

june 29 buy in 22 player 4

[thetrinity]

Do u have any rule of thumb on how to play AK(o) in short-stack situations?

What I mean by that. I would almost never fold AK(s) pre-flop. I would also almost never fold pocket pair QQ+, even JJ.

If there is significant action in front of me + I'm holding AK(o), I feel like I'm up against it. Even worse, a 3-way all-in may be staring at Pocket Pair vs AK vs your AK. So, you're drawing to a chop...and you're drawing thin to even get that.

For under 20 BBS:

If I'm way behind the average, I would just shove unopened. If I'm close to the average, I would lean to making a normal opening raise (if I was opening the pot).

If there's limps or 1 raise just shove.

If there is a 3 bet in front of you, it really depends on how the other players involved have been playing, with putting more weight on how the 3 bettor has been playing.

[thetrinity]

Speaking of ak just lost a huge hand with it k106k6 board he had k10, maybe going to have to use my 2nd reentry today!

[thetrinity]

All you can do is play as hard as you can and do what you know is right. AND THEN the shitty thing is that you have to

hold on from ahead and get lucky from behind OVER and OVER on the all ins during a tournament to win anything.

It's just frustrating and dumb luck to me. And I'd never play for real $$ and put myself through that kind of torture.

Maybe one of his posts one day soon will say: "YES today I won! Because finally today every time I got it all in

when I was ahead, I stayed ahead, and when I was behind, I lucked out the card(s) I needed to win!"

But then where is his bankroll? Right back near where he started? Who the hell needs that aggravation? I don't.

I don't have a "bankroll" for this challenge. If you want to play online as a "pro" you need to play a ton of volume. For stakes this low, I think making around a 1/3 to a half buy per tournament is pretty good. If you are multitabling, you will miss some things and it's probably more like 20% of the buyin as the goal.

[thetrinity]

Fought back from 2500 to about 7500 on the break, so no reentry.

Got a gift when CO made it 180 at 30/60 I shoved 2500 with JJ on the button he called with 22.

I really havent been so low this early, but I do think its profitable just to throw it in with big hands because you will get so many light calls, plus you can use your reentry if you bust when it has more value.

[thetrinity]

Busto at 200/400

shoved 5887 with 1010 from CO, BB calls with AJs, flop ace

[JoeCool20]

I don't have a "bankroll" for this challenge. If you want to play online as a "pro" you need to play a ton of volume. For stakes this low, I think making around a 1/3 to a half buy per tournament is pretty good. If you are multitabling, you will miss some things and it's probably more like 20% of the buyin as the goal.

I think you know what I meant bro! You just said the same thing I did in a different way, but really even kinda worse!

You say you are trying/hoping to win 20% or 30% of your buy in every tourney, well then OK, you are just slowly

dwindling down your cash until you have almost nothing. What I said/meant was that if you are good at poker

and you continue to make the right decisions in these tourneys, then you will STILL lose sometimes/often before

you make the money because of "running bad" or idiots getting donk-lucky on you! I was simply saying that EVEN

if you keep playing good and making the right decisions, then after about 10 tourneys you MIGHT have gotten

lucky enough to place in the money in a few of them and still have about what you started with, bankroll wise.


Like I said, for me, who needs the frustration/aggravation of that? I don't! That's what I meant.

Fought back from 2500 to about 7500 on the break, so no reentry.

Got a gift when CO made it 180 at 30/60 I shoved 2500 with JJ on the button he called with 22.

I really havent been so low this early, but I do think its profitable just to throw it in with big hands because you will get so many light calls, plus you can use your reentry if you bust when it has more value.

I totally agree with that! Look what we/several of the "seasoned veterans" do in these 30 person SBR donkaments!

If you get a hole pair or AK then just go all in and see what happens!

If you get lucky for an hour and win most/all of them, then you win or place in the money/poker points!

If you lose or somebody donks you out, then you go do something else with an hour of your time!

Jake P21 is the master of that strategy! Sometimes he finishes 20th, a lot of times he finishes in top 10!

Now yes it is easy to do that when you have no money in it. But I still think

you may as well do that strategy in these small stakes tourneys too instead of trying to grind the shit out.

One way "grinding" make you frustrated as hell when you get luck-donked.

The other way (All in with pairs or AQ or better) allows you to just shrug it off if you don't hold up and say:

"Oh well, it didn't work in this one, so off to the next tourney! Let's see if I get lucky in that one!"

[thetrinity]

Joe that’s profit. So I’m looking to average a WIN of about 15 dollars each tournament (33 buy in plus 15). A min cash is usually about 20 dollar profit (53 bucks) if you don’t have to rebuy. Now, obviously you can go streaks of nothing at all. That’s why you have to make deep runs sometimes.

You completely missed my point on the second part. SBR poker is no comparison because the stacks are never as deep as this tournament. I’m saying in a deep stacked game if you get crippled early (you start with 10k and 10/20 blinds, at 30/60 I had 2500) you can overshove big hands because you aren’t likely to get credit especially with a reentry.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Keep it going, Trin. I (for one) enjoy updates like this.

I made the comment that Poker Tournaments have largely been played out. Your outlook appears to be spot-on, to me. It's about putting your opponent on a range and estimating bluff/value ratios.

I've read enuf of your comments. I'm of the opinion that betting patterns over the course of the hand largely dictate one's logical play. On the end, if you don't think you can rep a big hand...you just give up (at least that's what I do).

[pablo222]

Lets see a final table today, Trinity. Good luck.

[thetrinity]

June 30 player 8 buy in 23

[thetrinity]

Keep it going, Trin. I (for one) enjoy updates like this.

I made the comment that Poker Tournaments have largely been played out. Your outlook appears to be spot-on, to me. It's about putting your opponent on a range and estimating bluff/value ratios.

I've read enuf of your comments. I'm of the opinion that betting patterns over the course of the hand largely dictate one's logical play. On the end, if you don't think you can rep a big hand...you just give up (at least that's what I do).

The most important thing for me is staying over 20 big blinds and staying within half the average. If I’m under both, it’s desperation time. If I’m getting close to that, its probably best to make a borderline decision and live with it. You don’t really want to be in that spot (under 20 bigs and less than half the average). I would call this tournament management, something that many players don’t do a good job of doing. The later you get in the tournament staying close to the average becomes more important because often times the average is 20-25 BB. Managing the tournament and preflop play are the most important things in tournament play to me.

[JoeCool20]

Joe that’s profit. So I’m looking to average a WIN of about 15 dollars each tournament (33 buy in plus 15). A min cash is usually about 20 dollar profit (53 bucks) if you don’t have to rebuy. Now, obviously you can go streaks of nothing at all. That’s why you have to make deep runs sometimes.

You completely missed my point on the second part. SBR poker is no comparison because the stacks are never as deep as this tournament. I’m saying in a deep stacked game if you get crippled early (you start with 10k and 10/20 blinds, at 30/60 I had 2500) you can overshove big hands because you aren’t likely to get credit especially with a reentry.

No problem bro. Just know I'm pulling for you. If you are + cash then I am freakin thrilled for you!

[ChuckyTheGoat]

The most important thing for me is staying over 20 big blinds and staying within half the average. If I’m under both, it’s desperation time. If I’m getting close to that, its probably best to make a borderline decision and live with it. You don’t really want to be in that spot (under 20 bigs and less than half the average). I would call this tournament management, something that many players don’t do a good job of doing. The later you get in the tournament staying close to the average becomes more important because often times the average is 20-25 BB. Managing the tournament and preflop play are the most important things in tournament play to me.

That's good stuff, Trin. Yes, I'm always re-counting and aware of MY stack and the effective Big Blinds.

On the super short stack, stacks are just getting in. But it's also big when you're above the safety zone + you get a grand larceny steal of the blinds. Getting a steal thru when u KNOW you're behind is so good.

[thetrinity]

tough one 10 from the money

1250/2500

had ak about 20k in chips (on the button)

utg shoves 29000

I call

he has 89 of spades rivers the 9

Not sure why he would do that TBH, easy fold with the whole table behind you

I was shocked to see 2 unders, thought it would be a race or aq/aj for sure

[thetrinity]

Feel like this bustout hand was a good one to analyze

The average stack is about 36500, UTG has 29855 exactly he shoves all in for almost 12 big blinds.

Although I dont have this information with me, I would think that stack puts him about 20th in chips out of 45 (the average is usually weighted towards the top).

This is a full 9 handed table, so he has to dodge 8 hands. I actually have the lowest stack at the table even though I'm in 37th out of 45 at this point (this was around 19800). He's never getting called by a worse hand.

The person who is most likely to call would be the big blind. He has just under 60 thousand. So you have a big blind who can afford a looser call and a whole table that will cripple you if you lose. Not to mention, you will be the big blind the next hand.

I would say this shove would probably get through 2/3 times with 8 players behind, because of the spot in the tournament so close to the bubble. The only hands that call that you are blocking are 88 and 99. I can't properly range the whole table, but I'm only calling with 88+, aq, and ak from the button where I am at.

This is what I was talking about with managing the tournament. He's actually in somewhat decent shape with his stack although it's only about 12 big blinds. If the average is more like 60-70 thousand, this might not be that bad of a move, because he will get credit for a big hand, especially so close to the bubble. If there are a lot of shorties at the table who wont hurt him so much if they pickup a hand, then it might not be a bad play either. So, if I was in his shoes, I would have folded pretty quickly.

[Ian]

With no reads I would give the player credit for a big hand here. Sometimes, especially in tournaments, people do things that are incredibly stupid, but I wouldn't bank on that given all the factors pointing to a big hand. UTG 9 handed with short stacks around the bubble... just fold unless you have a huge hand yourself.

Just my opinion...

Feel like this bustout hand was a good one to analyze

The average stack is about 36500, UTG has 29855 exactly he shoves all in for almost 12 big blinds.

Although I dont have this information with me, I would think that stack puts him about 20th in chips out of 45 (the average is usually weighted towards the top).

This is a full 9 handed table, so he has to dodge 8 hands. I actually have the lowest stack at the table even though I'm in 37th out of 45 at this point (this was around 19800). He's never getting called by a worse hand.

The person who is most likely to call would be the big blind. He has just under 60 thousand. So you have a big blind who can afford a looser call and a whole table that will cripple you if you lose. Not to mention, you will be the big blind the next hand.

I would say this shove would probably get through 2/3 times with 8 players behind, because of the spot in the tournament so close to the bubble. The only hands that call that you are blocking are 88 and 99. I can't properly range the whole table, but I'm only calling with 88+, aq, and ak from the button where I am at.

This is what I was talking about with managing the tournament. He's actually in somewhat decent shape with his stack although it's only about 12 big blinds. If the average is more like 60-70 thousand, this might not be that bad of a move, because he will get credit for a big hand, especially so close to the bubble. If there are a lot of shorties at the table who wont hurt him so much if they pickup a hand, then it might not be a bad play either. So, if I was in his shoes, I would have folded pretty quickly.

[thetrinity]

July 1 buy in 24 player 10

[thetrinity]

With no reads I would give the player credit for a big hand here. Sometimes, especially in tournaments, people do things that are incredibly stupid, but I wouldn't bank on that given all the factors pointing to a big hand. UTG 9 handed with short stacks around the bubble... just fold unless you have a huge hand yourself.

Just my opinion...

Thanks, but not sure what you are saying? I did expect a big hand, and was surprised he was that light. In my first thread, I figured his range was a pair or aq/aj. I could add to that most players try and get action with AA or KK, so I dont expect a 12 bb stack to shove that under the gun. Plus, I block both of those hands and AK. So, I would expect to see 22-qq and aq/aj. This was not a fist pump call FWIW. I expect to be in a race a good portion of the time, but I expect to be far ahead sometimes too, and dominated by AA or KK almost never.

[thetrinity]

this was a quick exit today

Had 1010 v aa blind v blind

125/250 he made it 6 i made it 18 he went all in (had 25k to my 10k) i called, aces hold.

[Ian]

Thanks, but not sure what you are saying? I did expect a big hand, and was surprised he was that light. In my first thread, I figured his range was a pair or aq/aj. I could add to that most players try and get action with AA or KK, so I dont expect a 12 bb stack to shove that under the gun. Plus, I block both of those hands and AK. So, I would expect to see 22-qq and aq/aj. This was not a fist pump call FWIW. I expect to be in a race a good portion of the time, but I expect to be far ahead sometimes too, and dominated by AA or KK almost never.

What I was saying is I'd expect his range to be strong and would only call with a really good hand, which AK is.

It turns out he made a bad play and essentially risked his tournament life in a spot where he's certain to be a dog. You got it in as a 60/40 favorite, a great outcome. He just made a bad play and got lucky, that's all.

GL in the next one.

[thetrinity]

What I was saying is I'd expect his range to be strong and would only call with a really good hand, which AK is.

It turns out he made a bad play and essentially risked his tournament life in a spot where he's certain to be a dog. You got it in as a 60/40 favorite, a great outcome. He just made a bad play and got lucky, that's all.

GL in the next one.

Thanks, personally, I still think calling it off with ak is never that great against an UTG shove. If that was the button shoving and I was small blind, I would be a lot happier with calling it off. It was just an idiotic move with too much risk and not enough reward for him. But, yeah, I would still range a player in that spot pretty tight unless he showed otherwise. The funny thing is he is actually more than 10 percent better off with what he had than AQ when he runs into AK, that’s the weird thing about poker.

[JoeCool20]

What I was saying is I'd expect his range to be strong and would only call with a really good hand, which AK is.

It turns out he made a bad play and essentially risked his tournament life in a spot where he's certain to be a dog. You got it in as a 60/40 favorite, a great outcome. He just made a bad play and got lucky, that's all.

GL in the next one.

To me that is all tournament poker is.

Is who gets the luckiest on all in coin-flips and 60 - 40 all ins, and so on. I mean shit he is sitting there with AK saying:

"YES I just got this idiot all in and he only has 89!!" But then he had to dodge the bullshit luck. And he didn't dodge it.


And even if he did dodge it that time, he has to either dodge a few more, or get lucky himself several times in

order to make any money! I just have no reason to subject myself to it.

[thetrinity]

July 2 buy in 25 player 12

[thetrinity]

out at 250/500

did get to 20k quick with aa v qq

nothing at all after that down to 9k in the bb

utg min raise, mp 3150 (a huge stack that had been 3 betting a lot), i shove, utg goes all in for a little more (about 11 total), and the big stack calls

utg 10s (should fold IMO), mp actually has kk

10 hits the turn and UTG wins

[thetrinity]

Not playing for a few days, the same guests r back

[thetrinity]

July 7 buyin 26 player 2

[thetrinity]

busted out at 400/800 shoved 3700ish with a4 off in UTG+1 next player has aq and it holds. Nothing special on that, no way I make it through the blinds being so low.

5 minutes before:

3/6 blinds

UTG+2 and lojack limp, I make it 1800 with AQ of spades, cutoff calls

UTG+2 thinks a while and shoves (12948 exactly), lojack folds.

I really hadn't found myself in this type of spot very often. It felt weak because he took forever to shove and usually MP open limps are weak. There was a lot of dead money in there at this point. It was 11148 more to win just under 30k, which seemed like a great price in a spot he was likely to be weak. I didn't expect the cutoff to have much either as he had a bigger stack and could afford a call in position. I decided to reshove (about 4k more) cutoff folds, MP has 66.

Flop was 7s8x9s, which would have been interesting, 2 bricks and I lose a huge race.

I really had avoided these types of high variance spots up to this point (where I'm putting a lot of money in probably a little behind) but it was too juicy and I decided to gamble.

[ChuckyTheGoat]

Gd Lk, Trin. I agree w/ your sentiment. AQ(s) is just so good.

Even pros don't fold that hand.

[thetrinity]

Thanks, ya chucky, it seemed like he had what he had and I took a gamble to try and get a big stack.

back at it today

July 8
buy in 27
player 1

[thetrinity]

6th place (261.72 cash)

Had a nice run. Never really had a ton of chips, would have had 45k early but lost with ak to a3 allin preflop. Pretty much held on until the money. First hand after the bubble burst I shoved 16k under the gun at 1500/3000 with 1010 and beat qq. Won a few small pots and laddered up at the final table where I was always one of the 2 lowest stacks. Shoved 90k (lowest stack by a lot at this point) at 6k/12k with a6 in the hijack and ran into qq and lost.

[thetrinity]

July 9 buyin 28 player 8

[thetrinity]

never got anything going shoved 6800 at 250/500 (avg over 16k) with q9 from the cutoff big blind wins with a10

[JAKEPEAVY21]

What's your profit so far? You have a couple decent scores so I'm assuming you are ahead.

[thetrinity]

July 10 buyin 29 player 6

Probably around 280 still Peavy, that last cash was the only one I have had for a while so its been pretty much a wash since buyin 20. I will do the update after buyin 30.